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  #2671  
Old 09-08-2022, 11:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Dean2 View Post
Yes, but only because the share price has basically dropped in half in less than 30 days. They also have not announced what the amount of the next dividend will be, could come out anywhere from zero on up.
If dividents are staying at $27 per share or close -I am loading up on this. The share price is hovering around $30, so I doubt that it will go down to nothing in a few days after they disclose the upcoming dividends.
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  #2672  
Old 09-08-2022, 12:01 PM
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Originally Posted by KGB View Post
If dividents are staying at $27 per share or close -I am loading up on this. The share price is hovering around $30, so I doubt that it will go down to nothing in a few days after they disclose the upcoming dividends.
I am waiting till they actually declare the dividend, and then I will compare that to the share price, with the intention of selling right after the ex-Div date. Post up the info if you see the declared dividend.
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  #2673  
Old 09-08-2022, 12:22 PM
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I am waiting till they actually declare the dividend, and then I will compare that to the share price, with the intention of selling right after the ex-Div date. Post up the info if you see the declared dividend.
Yes for sure.
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  #2674  
Old 09-08-2022, 04:29 PM
Map Maker Map Maker is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Dean2 View Post
I am waiting till they actually declare the dividend, and then I will compare that to the share price, with the intention of selling right after the ex-Div date. Post up the info if you see the declared dividend.
As soon as it becomes a sure thing, the opportunity will be gone the day before.

There’s always insider info
I used to watch the insider buy and sells and it was such a good indicator that they put a 1 month delay on the info.

P/e is less than 1 and it’s still dropping. Whoever is selling, is selling to market price. Some entity just wants out but why?

My thoughts anyways.
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  #2675  
Old 09-08-2022, 05:01 PM
Buckhead Buckhead is offline
 
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If I had to guess why I would say it is likely a combination of things.

Containerized freight rate indexes are dropping like a rock so I would expect future container rates below $2,000 or even less.

China's manufacturing numbers have been lagging - so orders slowing down apparently.

The Baltic Dry index has been dropping since May so less raw materials are being shipped.

Countries continue to push up the interest rates so that does not bode well for any increase in comsumption. Consumers will be cutting back to the bare necessities.

I don't see many issues in the near future that bode well for either the production or shipping of manufactured goods.
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  #2676  
Old 09-08-2022, 06:22 PM
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The index was around $1500 just a few years ago and these guys were profitable back then…. Just saying…. Plus, they lease most of their ships and the leases expire in 2023 so if the volume drops they are not gonna get stuck with the ships doing nothing. Again, they are not new kid on a block and have been around for many many years turning profits…. Again, approach at your own risk…
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  #2677  
Old 09-08-2022, 07:09 PM
Buckhead Buckhead is offline
 
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Reviewing their financial statements indicates net losses for 2019, 2018 and a very small profit in 2017. If freight rates normalize they are not going to be in good shape it appears. A lot of risk IMO.
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  #2678  
Old 09-09-2022, 10:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Buckhead View Post
Reviewing their financial statements indicates net losses for 2019, 2018 and a very small profit in 2017. If freight rates normalize they are not going to be in good shape it appears. A lot of risk IMO.
Very true. But on the balance sheet, the company was completely transformed in 2020. Not sure if they bought/leased ships that went under due to covid or what.
But they have been very profitable since then.
I know absolutely nothing about shipping companies. But there will be a point where it’s undervalued compared to its stock price. I think we have crossed that line but I’m waiting for my fire sale price.
Looks like this company is the 10th largest shipping company in the world.
Interesting discussing it anyways.

Wish I could find its stock graph before 2021. Not sure why that data is not available.
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  #2679  
Old 09-09-2022, 10:15 AM
fishtank fishtank is offline
 
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Lesson from dryships and few other Greek shipper from back in 2008 … they are not around anymore , In the shipping business once their profit drop and debt increases very quickly and the bottom falls out . Most of those company was taking in the profit due to oil price and demands. But once the rate and demand drops down. And they have all those empty ship and ships that are not yet delivered…
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  #2680  
Old 09-09-2022, 10:27 AM
The Elkster The Elkster is offline
 
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I wouldn't touch anything shipping with a ten foot pole right now. Rates are dropping quickly as recessionary forces start to take hold. Here is a link to a website based around shipping if you want to have get a read on current conditions. https://theloadstar.com/

With rates going up everything big ticket that relies on financing to keep sales up is going to be hit pretty hard. Houses, vehicles, RV's, boats and ATV's. The trickle down effect from the drop in consumer spending on the biggest ticket items in consumer spending is going to hit the whole economy over the next couple years. I remember when Alberta went from boom to bust in 2014. Went from unfilled jobs everywhere to rampant unemployment and +30% vacancy in downtown Calgary. I think we are going to see the same on a larger scale coming down from the this lofty gov't and debt fueled frenzy. There will be a buying opportunity but IMO now is not that time.

Of course the gov't could also turn course and enable 0% interest rates with interest only payments to keep the party going. Then I expect houses will average 1billion by 2030! lol
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  #2681  
Old 09-09-2022, 10:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Map Maker View Post
Very true. But on the balance sheet, the company was completely transformed in 2020. Not sure if they bought/leased ships that went under due to covid or what.
But they have been very profitable since then.
I know absolutely nothing about shipping companies. But there will be a point where it’s undervalued compared to its stock price. I think we have crossed that line but I’m waiting for my fire sale price.
Looks like this company is the 10th largest shipping company in the world.
Interesting discussing it anyways.

Wish I could find its stock graph before 2021. Not sure why that data is not available.
It was not on stock exchange prior to 2021. At least here in North America.
There is an interesting discussion about this on Yahoo finance.
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  #2682  
Old 09-09-2022, 11:01 AM
fishtank fishtank is offline
 
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Originally Posted by fishtank View Post
Lesson from dryships and few other Greek shipper from back in 2008 … they are not around anymore , In the shipping business once their profit drop and debt increases very quickly and the bottom falls out . Most of those company was taking in the profit due to oil price and demands. But once the rate and demand drops down. And they have all those empty ship and ships that are not yet delivered…
Also forgot to add if you want to compare the numbers of bulk shipping company’s there are few. Starbulk, eagle, just look at they number before COVID there are a few to look at. Their profit jump during COVID and so did the Dividend, and it will fizzle out , as it did after the financial crisis.
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  #2683  
Old 09-09-2022, 03:12 PM
Map Maker Map Maker is offline
 
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Originally Posted by The Elkster View Post
I wouldn't touch anything shipping with a ten foot pole right now. Rates are dropping quickly as recessionary forces start to take hold. Here is a link to a website based around shipping if you want to have get a read on current conditions.
That is a concern though I would think long term contracts are in place. But if rates are drop like commodity prices that would definitely effect prices.

Risk vs reward
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  #2684  
Old 09-11-2022, 10:10 PM
fishtank fishtank is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Buckhead View Post
If I had to guess why I would say it is likely a combination of things.

Containerized freight rate indexes are dropping like a rock so I would expect future container rates below $2,000 or even less.

China's manufacturing numbers have been lagging - so orders slowing down apparently.

The Baltic Dry index has been dropping since May so less raw materials are being shipped.

Countries continue to push up the interest rates so that does not bode well for any increase in comsumption. Consumers will be cutting back to the bare necessities.

I don't see many issues in the near future that bode well for either the production or shipping of manufactured goods.
Just ran into this headline today about shipping rates , pretty much what you said
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/shipp...122550034.html
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  #2685  
Old 09-11-2022, 11:07 PM
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There is another thing that I found out about ZIM- apparently, there is a 25% Israeli tax that we have to pay from the dividends earned….I am not sure if this is only applicable for the Americans or for Canadian investors also.
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  #2686  
Old 09-12-2022, 09:24 AM
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Originally Posted by KGB View Post
There is another thing that I found out about ZIM- apparently, there is a 25% Israeli tax that we have to pay from the dividends earned….I am not sure if this is only applicable for the Americans or for Canadian investors also.
Like all stocks, guy has to know what he is getting into. There is paper work you can file but you need to be holding enough stock to make it worth the work.

HAIFA, Israel, Aug. 26, 2022 /PRNewswire/ -- ZIM Integrated Shipping Services Ltd. (NYSE: ZIM), a global container liner shipping company, hereby updates that in connection with the dividend distribution expected to take place on September 8, 2022, as previously announced by the Company on August 17, 2022 (the "Dividend"), and in accordance with its previously obtained tax ruling (the "Ruling") from the Israeli Tax Authority ("ITA"), certain shareholders of the Company ("Shareholders") may be eligible to a reduced Israeli withholding tax rate with respect to their share of this Dividend, in comparison to the generally applicable withholding tax rate (the "Reduced Withholding Tax Rate"), under certain terms and conditions as set forth below. The Ruling also applies to any future dividend distributions to be made by the Company on or before December 31, 2022, if declared by the Company.
ZIM Logo

The description provided below is not intended to constitute a complete analysis of withholding tax rate procedures relating to the distribution of the Dividend, nor does it address the actual tax liability of any of the Shareholders, but merely relates to the Israeli withholding tax procedures relating to the distribution of the Dividend. Other than the Dividend previously declared by the Company to be paid on September 8, 2022, there is no guarantee the Company will declare additional dividends in the future.

Shareholders are advised to consult their own tax and financial advisors concerning the tax consequences of each particular situation, as well as any tax consequences that may arise under the laws of any state, local, foreign or other taxing jurisdiction. For the avoidance of doubt, the Agent (as defined below) has been retained by ZIM for the purpose of coordinating certain procedures relating to the Ruling, and it is NOT intended that the Agent will provide any tax advice to any of the Shareholders, who are encouraged to consult their own tax and financial advisors.

Forms required to be submitted to the Agent in connection with the Ruling as described below are attached as exhibits 99.2, 99.3 and 99.4 to Company's Current Report on Form 6-K filed with the Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) on August 26, 2022, (www.sec.gov) and can also be found on the Company's website here.

Background
On August 17, 2022, ZIM announced a dividend payment of $4.75 per ordinary share (approximately $571 million), to holders of the ordinary shares as of August 29, 2022. Payment of the Dividend is expected to be made on September 8, 2022 (the "Payment Date").

General Withholding Tax Treatment under Israeli Law
As set out in the Company's Annual Report on Form 20-F filed with the Commission on March 9, 2022, with respect to dividends sourced from regular earnings, under the Israeli Tax Ordinance and regulations issued under the Israeli Tax Ordinance (collectively, "ITO"), the current Israeli rate of withholding tax on dividends paid by an Israeli company is 30% for distributions to a "substantial shareholder" (in general, being someone who holds, directly or indirectly, by himself or together with others, at least 10% of one or more of the means of control in the company) and 25% with respect to distributions to all other holders of Ordinary Shares ("Withholding Tax"). Notwithstanding the foregoing, as a result of the Ruling and subject to its terms and conditions, certain Shareholders, both Israeli and non-Israeli, may be eligible to a reduced Israeli withholding tax rate on their share of this dividend distribution, in comparison to the generally applicable withholding tax rate described above, (the "Reduced Withholding Tax Rate"), under certain terms and conditions as set forth below.

Summary of the Main Terms of the Ruling
The following is a summary of some of the key terms of the Ruling. It is emphasized that the description below does not purport to exhaust all the terms and conditions included in the Ruling and is not a complete translation of the Ruling. In order to enjoy the Reduced Withholding Tax Rate, Shareholders must comply with all the terms of the Ruling, a copy of which in the Hebrew language as well as an unofficial non-binding English translation thereof can be obtained free of charge by email by approaching the Agent (as defined below) at the contact details provided below.

On the Payment Date the Company will withhold 25% of the Dividend amount and will remit the tax amount to the Agent, to be handled by the Agent in accordance with the terms and conditions of the Ruling.
The remaining 75% of the Dividend amount will be remitted by the Company to its transfer agent, American Stock Transfer & Trust Company, LLC ("AST"), which will transfer the said amount to the Shareholders (including through brokers who hold in brokerage accounts ZIM shares on behalf of Shareholders).
A Shareholder who is a resident of a country with which Israel has a tax treaty ("Treaty State") (based on a declaration to be provided by such Shareholder) and is the beneficial owner of the Dividend, as well as a Shareholder who is a foreign (i.e., non-Israeli) resident of a country with which Israel does NOT have a tax treaty and is the beneficial owner of the Dividend, may apply to the Agent requesting a Reduced Tax Withholding Rate. Such application must be received by the Agent between the Payment Date and October 4, 2022 ("Change of Rate Period").
A Shareholder who declared that he or she is a resident of a Treaty State and is the beneficial owner of the Dividend may apply to the Agent during the Change of Rate Period only (subject to complying with all the documentation requirements detailed below) requesting the receipt of the monetary difference between the tax amount remitted to the Agent (at a rate of 25%) and the amount represented by the withholding tax rate set forth in the tax treaty between Israel and such Treaty State or by the limited withholding tax rate applicable to such dividend payment under the ITO, to the extent applicable.
A Shareholder who did not declare that it, he or she is a resident of a Treaty State and is the beneficial owner of the Dividend, may apply to the Agent during the Change of Rate Period only (subject to complying with all the documentation requirements detailed below) requesting the receipt of the monetary difference between the tax amount remitted to the Agent (at a rate of 25%) and the amount represented by the withholding tax rate applicable to such dividend payment under the ITO or by the limited withholding tax rate applicable to such dividend payment under the ITO, to the extent applicable.
Any Shareholder who claims to be entitled to a Reduced Tax Withholding Rate in accordance with the foregoing, will be required to provide the Agent with all relevant documentation as detailed in the Ruling and attached as exhibits 99.2, 99.3 and 99.4 to the Company's Current Report on form 6-K filed on August 26, 2022 with the Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) on no later than October 4, 2022 (the end of the Change of Rate Period), including but not limited to, bank account details to which the dividend payment should be transferred, number of ZIM shares owned by the Shareholder in such account, identification document, and confirmation of residence issued by the taxing authority of the state of tax residence.
In addition to the foregoing, the Shareholder will provide a written declaration in the form annexed to this announcement which will include declarations as to the following: (i) the Shareholder's tax residence, (ii) the Shareholder's beneficial ownership of the dividend, (iii) the investment in ZIM shares has not been made through a permanent establishment in Israel, (iv) the holding of ZIM shares is made for the Shareholder's own account and not for the account of others, and (v) the payment will not be made to a permanent establishment of the Shareholder outside of the Shareholder's tax residence.
A non-Israeli corporate Shareholder (excluding a Shareholder covered by section 9 below) that requests a Reduced Tax Withholding Rate, will also need to provide the Agent with its updated shareholders register as of August 31, 2022, and a statement confirming that more than 75% of its shareholders, directly or indirectly, are individuals of its state of residence.
A publicly traded non-Israeli corporate Shareholder whose shares are traded on a stock market outside of Israel and is a resident of a Treaty State, or a direct or indirect subsidiary of such Shareholder, will also provide the Agent with a declaration that it is a resident of such Treaty State or another non-Israeli state, as applicable.
An Israeli corporate Shareholder which is entitled to a Reduced Tax Withholding Rate (including an exemption from withholding tax at source), will be able to apply to the Agent no later than October 4, 2022 (the end of the Change of Rate Period) and enclose an applicable valid ITA issued certificate setting forth a Reduced Tax Withholding Rate or an exemption from withholding tax. In addition, such Shareholder will enclose its certificate of incorporation and all other documents required as set forth above, mutatis mutandis as requested by the Agent.
The Agent is entitled to request from the Shareholders applying for a Reduced Tax Withholding Rate additional documents in its discretion insofar as they are required to establish the tax residence of the Shareholder or its entitlement to exemption and/or to a Reduced Tax Withholding Rate.
Notwithstanding the foregoing, no refund of excess tax withholding shall be affected by the Agent with respect to any Shareholder holding more than 5% of the issued share capital of the Company, or whose entitlement to dividend from the Company pursuant to the Dividend exceeds $500,000, other than in accordance with a specific approval issued by the ITA.
The transfer of the amounts withheld, excluding the amounts returned to the Shareholders, as aforementioned, shall be conducted by the Agent. Subject to receipt by the Agent of your required documentation, the Agent will return the amounts withheld to the Shareholders as detailed above to the account at which the dividend payment was made within 30 days from the date the amounts withheld are paid to the ITA.
The Ruling is aimed to address solely the issue of tax withholding procedures and should not be construed as setting the actual tax liability of any Shareholder with respect to the Dividend or otherwise.

Appointment of Israeli Tax Withholding Agent
In order to facilitate the implementation of the procedures set forth in the Ruling for the benefit of its Shareholders, the Company appointed ESOP Management & Trust Services Ltd. to serve as a processing agent for the benefit of the Shareholders in connection with the distribution of the Dividend (the "Agent"). Shareholders are asked to note that the Agent will not provide tax advice to any Shareholders, who are encouraged to consult their own tax and financial advisors. Contact information of the Agent is provided at the bottom of this announcement. We encourage you to contact the Agent if you need any clarifications in filling-in the forms required under the Ruling to obtain a Reduced Withholding Tax Rate, or if you have any questions concerning the process. Please note that the Agent (as defined below) will not provide any tax advice to any Shareholder, who should consult their own tax and financial advisors.

In order to be eligible to benefit from a Reduced Withholding Tax Rate, Shareholders must provide the Agent with all documentation required under the Ruling not later than October 4, 2022. The relevant forms included in the Ruling are and attached as exhibits 99.2, 99.3 and 99.4 to the Company's Current Report on form 6-K filed on August 26, 2022 with the SEC.

If a Shareholder fails to provide the Agent with all the documentation required by October 4, 2022, the Agent will not be able to attend to such Shareholder's application and will not be able to return any amounts originally remitted on behalf of such Shareholder nor provide any confirmation of tax withholding to such a Shareholder, either in connection with the Ruling or in connection with any other tax filing by such Shareholder.

ZIM's Agent Contact Information:

ESOP Management & Trust Services Ltd.

Tel No: +972-3-7536823
Fax No: +972-3-7602636
Email: esop-sp@esop.co.il

About ZIM
Founded in Israel in 1945, ZIM (NYSE: ZIM) is a leading global container liner shipping company with established operations in approximately 100 countries serving approximately 30,000 customers in over 350 ports worldwide. ZIM leverages digital strategies and a commitment to ESG values to provide customers innovative seaborne transportation and logistics services and exceptional customer experience. ZIM's differentiated global-niche strategy, based on agile fleet management and deployment, covers major trade routes with a focus on select markets where the company holds competitive advantages. Additional information about ZIM is available at www.ZIM.com.

ZIM Contacts

Media:
Avner Shats
ZIM Integrated Shipping Services Ltd.
+972-4-865-2520
shats.avner@zim.com

Investor Relations:
Elana Holzman
ZIM Integrated Shipping Services Ltd.
+972-4-865-2300
holzman.elana@zim.com

Leon Berman
The IGB Group
212-477-8438
lberman@igbir.com
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  #2687  
Old 09-12-2022, 02:42 PM
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^^that sounds awfully complicated even to read thru, lol! And I have no idea if Canada even has any special tax treaty with Israel. So I assume we will get dinged 25%…. But what if you hold the stock in your RRSP account?
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  #2688  
Old 09-13-2022, 03:02 PM
fishtank fishtank is offline
 
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Inflation eh … US market reacts with 4+% drop ! As US CPI up 0.1 % In August

Expect them to missed the estimate on the inflation #s , it will be going up hope they make a better estimate next time
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  #2689  
Old 09-14-2022, 11:20 AM
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I was reading earlier today that some finance guru said that the democrats want the interest to be higher than the inflation rate. So if the inflation is 8%, the interest rate should be 9%….
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  #2690  
Old 09-14-2022, 01:58 PM
eric2381 eric2381 is offline
 
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Where did you read that? Please and thank you.
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  #2691  
Old 09-14-2022, 02:05 PM
eric2381 eric2381 is offline
 
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https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...litical-peril/


A start to talk of that sort. Mind you, take these articles with a grain of salt. But it’s interesting to think about
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  #2692  
Old 09-14-2022, 02:20 PM
eric2381 eric2381 is offline
 
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“Historically, the Fed has needed to raise interest rates to a level above the peak inflation rate to have a real impact. “
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  #2693  
Old 09-14-2022, 09:24 PM
Fisherdan Fisherdan is offline
 
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https://www.reuters.com/business/ene...er-2022-09-14/

The European Union seeks to tax/take close to a third of fossil fuel company profits. The language used is interesting… it is unethical for these companies to be profiting to this extent, in a crisis, off the backs of consumers. Also, a temporary measure….

IMO, EU and left policies have created this energy supply and price problem. Wonder when the federal government here follows suit.
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  #2694  
Old 09-14-2022, 09:34 PM
fishtank fishtank is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fisherdan View Post
https://www.reuters.com/business/ene...er-2022-09-14/

The European Union seeks to tax/take close to a third of fossil fuel company profits. The language used is interesting… it is unethical for these companies to be profiting to this extent, in a crisis, off the backs of consumers. Also, a temporary measure….

IMO, EU and left policies have created this energy supply and price problem. Wonder when the federal government here follows suit.
EU need to convinced the Saudis and opec to lower the price or place a carbon tax on em … or they will boycott em like they boycott Russian gas .
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  #2695  
Old 09-14-2022, 10:09 PM
Fisherdan Fisherdan is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fishtank View Post
EU need to convinced the Saudis and opec to lower the price or place a carbon tax on em … or they will boycott em like they boycott Russian gas .
You can’t make this stuff up, but here we are.

I have a tough time seeing the liberals not trying a tax like this once winter rolls in and everybody (more precisely, most peoplekind) is shocked by their energy bill.
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  #2696  
Old 09-14-2022, 11:20 PM
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I was told that the wood burning stoves are in a super high demand in Europe now….
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  #2697  
Old 09-15-2022, 04:17 PM
Buckhead Buckhead is offline
 
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I am just glad I don't live in Argentina where inflation is so high (expected to near 100%) they just hiked the interest rate to 75%.
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  #2698  
Old 09-15-2022, 06:30 PM
kingrat kingrat is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buckhead View Post
I am just glad I don't live in Argentina where inflation is so high (expected to near 100%) they just hiked the interest rate to 75%.
I had to google that, I thought maybe you mistyped. And no your correct, that's insane.
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  #2699  
Old 09-15-2022, 07:02 PM
fishtank fishtank is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kingrat View Post
I had to google that, I thought maybe you mistyped. And no your correct, that's insane.
There are few going that route with Lebanon and turkey ….
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  #2700  
Old 09-16-2022, 01:25 AM
fishnguy fishnguy is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buckhead View Post
I am just glad I don't live in Argentina where inflation is so high (expected to near 100%) they just hiked the interest rate to 75%.
They didn’t even hit the 3-year high yet though:

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