Grassy Mtn. Coal Project not dead yet.

[britman101]

Well it looks like the Australian Company which owns Grassy Mountain Coal mine has had new life breathed into it. Brian Jean has announced that it is an
"advanced project" which makes it exempt from a ministerial order banning coal development in the mountains. Australian billionaire, Gina Hart who owns the company spearheading the project is a billionaire and apparently the richest person in Australia. So even though the project has been rejected 3 times by Canadian courts she is ready to launch another try to get the open pit coal mine approved. Ms. Rinehart it seems does not like taking no for an answer.
Frankly the decision stinks of government corruption. You can read more about it in the link below:
https://thetyee.ca/Analysis/2024/02/...location=intro

[Pekan]

I've lived in the Pass part time for 3 years. Hope to retire there in the near future. I've gone back and forth on this issue.

I was opposed at first, but now I have a more pragmatic view.

Some things I'd like people who don't live in the area to consider:
This mine isn't on category 4 land (mountain land where coal mines have been banned)
This is an existing mine that's been shut down, so no virgin land.

This mine is supported by the majority of locals.

News stories always make issues seem more black and white than they are.

[britman101]

However if it gets goes to another hearing and it gets defeated for a fourth time, that has to be it. Think of it this way, a province has an election. The winner is announced. However, some people do not like the results so they want to petition the election. They want another election to be called. They keep on doing this till they get the results they want. Nobody forced that mining company to buy the mining rights to that area. They had their day in court and lost. You would think there would be areas to mine in Australia. Just my opinion on the matter.

[MountainTi]

Originally Posted by CNP

Yeah nimbyism😀. Except most of the nimbys don't live any where near Grassy Mountain, know where it is, know that it is a legacy mine, know the environmental mitigation measures put in place to contain selenium leeching or have much to contribute to a discussion except for "no"

Everyone here enjoys the comforts our (Alberta/Canada) resources provide be it coal, lumber, nat. gas and oil but always those that don't want the resources extracted in their back yard....they just want the comforts.
Love the whining that goes on when logging is happening in old growth forests of Kananaskis but when these old growth forests light up there seems to be astonishment as to how this could happen, must be climate change.
Assuming this whining is being done from houses made of mud.

Seems many also fail to understand the need for world trade. Obviously we need to mine our coal to ship it to China in order for the products made and sold on Amazon to be sent back here.
NIMBYS

[Pekan]

Can't imagine Danielle Smith allowing this mine to go thru. Seems like she's tight with the S. AB ranching community. Isn't that the group that's very opposed to it?
The Pikani and Stoneys are on board, and why not? Free money.

[roper1]

Originally Posted by MountainTi

Everyone here enjoys the comforts our (Alberta/Canada) resources provide be it coal, lumber, nat. gas and oil but always those that don't want the resources extracted in their back yard....they just want the comforts.
Love the whining that goes on when logging is happening in old growth forests of Kananaskis but when these old growth forests light up there seems to be astonishment as to how this could happen, must be climate change.
Assuming this whining is being done from houses made of mud.

Seems many also fail to understand the need for world trade. Obviously we need to mine our coal to ship it to China in order for the products made and sold on Amazon to be sent back here.
NIMBYS

Seems to be a fair amount of fish caught out of the Elk & it's tributaries with defects blamed on coal mining. So difficult to mitigate the environmental effects once mining starts. Doubly complicated with foreign ownership

[Geraldsh]

That coal is not going anywhere right now, let’s wait and see how bad the drought is before we give up any large amounts of water.

[Strait Shooter]

The Coalspur mine is proceeding with the construction of a test mine after receiving all necessary provincial permits to do so. It looks like they intend to skirt existing environmental regulations by mining underground, which would still adversely effect ground water which falls under federal regulation.

“The company started construction work, but it’s limited to the underground portion of the mine,” said an email from Renato Gandia, spokesman for the Alberta Energy Regulator.

“The (test mine) simply represents an alternative mining method within the existing and approved permit boundary,” says its project description. “The (test mine) does not represent additional disturbance beyond the boundaries of the existing Phase I permit area.”

“The (test mine) includes mining underneath tributaries of McPherson Creek,” says the assessment agency’s analysis. “The processing and waste management associated with the physical activity also have the potential to adversely affect critical habitat, due to the location of tributaries within and surrounding the … lease area within which the (test mine) is located.”

https://globalnews.ca/news/10342528/...thout-permits/

[Smoky buck]

Of course one look through your post history shows 0 contributions or posts that are hunting or fishing related

Just here for drama it seems

[Strait Shooter]

Another example of how this is not responsible resource management, is it somehow ok if the pollution created is contained to Alberta rivers and streams?

"The United States and Canada have agreed to launch a joint probe into a long-running cross-border dispute involving pollution from coal mines in British Columbia flowing into American waters."

"Decades of open-pit mining in southeastern B.C. have exposed selenium, an element toxic to fish that is associated with coal deposits. That selenium has been flowing downstream."

"A recent study by the U.S. Geological Survey confirms contamination is coming from those mines. It adds that the efforts by mine owner Teck Resources Ltd. to slow those releases aren't making much difference to the amount flowing south."

"In 1985, the report estimated just under two tonnes of selenium flowed down the Elk River into Lake Koocanusa. By last year, that had grown to nearly 11 tonnes. This despite Teck installing $1.4-billion worth of water treatment at the mine and is structuring new activity to capture at least 95 per cent of selenium from current operations."

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/briti...teck-1.7140296

[albertan]

I remember the Obed mine disaster all too well. The mine was pretty much defunct and the dam holding back the tailings suddenly developed a leak and a good sized lake full of toxins spills into the Athabasca. Dead fish for a hundred miles. Maybe more.
I remember a round table on CBC a year or two before Covid, and it was let out that all the province got annually for all the coal sold in the province was only about 3 million dollars annually.
I would rather have trout streams.

[CBintheNorth]

Originally Posted by albertan

I remember the Obed mine disaster all too well. The mine was pretty much defunct and the dam holding back the tailings suddenly developed a leak and a good sized lake full of toxins spills into the Athabasca. Dead fish for a hundred miles. Maybe more.
I remember a round table on CBC a year or two before Covid, and it was let out that all the province got annually for all the coal sold in the province was only about 3 million dollars annually.
I would rather have trout streams.

I don't recall that? Have a link?

Even if it was only 3 million, did any one earn a living working at the mine? Pay taxes? Raise a family? Build a community?
There's more to resource production than profits alone.

[CBintheNorth]

Originally Posted by Smoky buck

Of course one look through your post history shows 0 contributions or posts that are hunting or fishing related

Just here for drama it seems

You leave Ms. Phillips alone. She's got a job to do here.

[albertan]

The Obed mine disaster happened only 15 km's East of Hinton, Alberta. It was a massive spill. The Athabasca river is not unsubstantial. It was a toxic mess for a while after that. Google it.

[Smoky buck]

Originally Posted by CBintheNorth

You leave Ms. Phillips alone. She's got a job to do here.

The level of trolls on the forum vs people actually contributing to outdoors related material is worse than any forum I have been a member of

[pikergolf]

Originally Posted by Smoky buck

Of course one look through your post history shows 0 contributions or posts that are hunting or fishing related

Just here for drama it seems

That has to be a record, 82 post and nothing that has to do with hunting or fishing.

[Smoky buck]

Originally Posted by pikergolf

That has to be a record, 82 post and nothing that has to do with hunting or fishing.

Oh there is way worse on AO lol

I am not going to start a list but there is no lack of members who only post on hot topics in the general discussion section. They rear their head on certain topics(sometimes a few) or only post threads on theses topics.

They have caused members who actually contribute to get banned or leave do to them getting in arguments with the trolls. To be fair to the mods those who got banned did break rules

Anytime I see the common trend in posts I check the post history to see if it’s someone worth acknowledging or just here to troll or push an agenda. 90% of the time it shows someone without anything outdoors related to contribute.

[M.C. Gusto]

Some interesting reading in these articles
https://www.thetyee.ca/Analysis/2024...ous-Coal-Mine/
https://toronto.citynews.ca/2024/01/...contamination/
https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.6639875

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by pikergolf

Maybe it is the folks whos water will be polluted that don't want it?

Did you miss everything he said?

[Strait Shooter]

Originally Posted by pikergolf

That has to be a record, 82 post and nothing that has to do with hunting or fishing.

Seems to me preservation of land and water resources is a more fundamental issue to sustaining hunting and fishing activity than any other topic on these forums. Certainly more important than what's on sale at Cabela's. The current govt. is willing to forge ahead and ignore a known toxic pollution generator that could damage water resources for decades, for the betterment of filling a few greedy pockets.

The Obed tailing pond spill into the Athabasca River mentioned above is a can of worms well worth investigating, if you want to know how carefully they will handle this issue read the following.

https://albertawilderness.ca/news-re...stions-remain/

[albertan]

Several posters here are pro coal development for the reason that they feel that their area will get some much needed employment. The number of jobs that these mines provide are nowhere near what they would have 25 years ago. The trucks will be all automated. There will be no drivers. The fewer the number of people on a mine site the fewer the number accidents and potential fatalities and life altering injuries.
I'll use the Giant gold mine as a reference here. It provided employment until things got lean. There was a strike, there was a murder, and now the Canadian tax payer is stuck with the multi-billion dollar clean up cost.
Declare bankruptcy and you are absolved of any and all remediation costs. Abandoned oil and gas wells have cost the Alberta and Canadian tax payer enough. They will continue to do so for many decades to come. Mine reclamations will only add to this burden.

[Smoky buck]

Originally Posted by albertan

Several posters here are pro coal development for the reason that they feel that their area will get some much needed employment. The number of jobs that these mines provide are nowhere near what they would have 25 years ago. The trucks will be all automated. There will be no drivers. The fewer the number of people on a mine site the fewer the number accidents and potential fatalities and life altering injuries.
I'll use the Giant gold mine as a reference here. It provided employment until things got lean. There was a strike, there was a murder, and now the Canadian tax payer is stuck with the multi-billion dollar clean up cost.
Declare bankruptcy and you are absolved of any and all remediation costs. Abandoned oil and gas wells have cost the Alberta and Canadian tax payer enough. They will continue to do so for many decades to come. Mine reclamations will only add to this burden.

Mines are up and down with the market. I have experienced layoffs firsthand that is true

Are you assuming automated trucks for this mine and do you have anything to back this up? Most mines in Canada are still using manned trucks and there is a reason. Even the oil sands where automated trucks would be more effective than a coal mine is still mostly manned trucks

Did my time in the industry and out of what you listed that is on point is how volatile the industry is when it comes to the market. Automation is still not the preferred option for haul trucks. During my time in the industry I can also say that safety is pushed hard. A good start to educate yourself is lean about the mines act. I might even still have a copy of it if you can’t find it.

I am not for or against this mine as I have not seen a copy of the mine management plan and don’t believe in making things up or assuming. The one thing that does have me considering support is that it’s actually reopening an existing mine not breaking new ground

Oh and mine reclamation is part of the budget for a modern mine management plan including the time frame requirements for reclamation usually breaking it down to each area of the mine. Yup I have been part of the reclamation of a mine

There is also non stop environmental studies on theses mines which is also a requirement of get a mine management plan approved

If done properly this mine could operate with minimal impact but again that depends on the management plan

But yup jobs will depend on the quality of the coal, access to coal, running expenses and market. I left the mining industry after being part of two mass layoffs

[MountainTi]

Originally Posted by Strait Shooter

Seems to me preservation of land and water resources is a more fundamental issue to sustaining hunting and fishing activity than any other topic on these forums.

Ever actually been to any of the many active and non active coal mine sites in Alberta. Kind of a hunters dream seeing the amount of game on those sites
Heard there's even been a few big rams on a couple of them

[CBintheNorth]

I don't really have a dog in this fight as don't live down there, and I couldn't care less if Aussies get our coal or find valuable minerals.
I do have one thing to question though.
If old coal mines are such disasters of environmental standards and kill everything within a huge radius, why is it that up here when a mine is finished, they reclaim it, fill it with water, and then 10 years later stock it with fragile rainbow trout and turn it into a viable fishery surrounded by big game and waterfowl?
There are dozens of examples of this.

[Smoky buck]

Originally Posted by MountainTi

Ever actually been to any of the many active and non active coal mine sites in Alberta. Kind of a hunters dream seeing the amount of game on those sites
Heard there's even been a few big rams on a couple of them

Yup there was a ton of animals living in the mines I worked in. All animals are also called out on the radio to be recorded. Any animals big or small found dead is recorded and cause of death looked into.

There was actually a haul truck driver even fired for running over a crow on the haul road at the one mine I worked at. If you got caught making an environmental or wildlife infraction you were done

[MountainTi]

Originally Posted by albertan

I remember the Obed mine disaster all too well. The mine was pretty much defunct and the dam holding back the tailings suddenly developed a leak and a good sized lake full of toxins spills into the Athabasca. Dead fish for a hundred miles. Maybe more.
I remember a round table on CBC a year or two before Covid, and it was let out that all the province got annually for all the coal sold in the province was only about 3 million dollars annually.
I would rather have trout streams.

You should try to find a better source of information. Alberta collected 146 million in 22/23. Was a good year obviously with high prices but Alberta does far better than 3 million annually

[MountainTi]

Originally Posted by Smoky buck

Yup there was a ton of animals living in the mines I worked in. All animals are also called out on the radio to be recorded. Any animals big or small found dead is recorded and cause of death looked into.

There was actually a haul truck driver even fired for running over a crow on the haul road at the one mine I worked at. If you got caught making an environmental or wildlife infraction you were done

The reclaimed areas on mine sites here in Alberta are a wildlife haven/heaven

[Smoky buck]

Originally Posted by MountainTi

The reclaimed areas on mine sites here in Alberta are a wildlife haven/heaven

That is pretty standard for a mine. The enviro team involved in reclamation usually runs a plan involving plant species that will benefit local wildlife

Running equipment for some of the reclamation on a mine that had a cute enviro girl that liked to talk gave me a bit of an education. If it was some fat dude I probably wouldn’t have learned as much

[albertan]

Grande Cache has gone bust how many times and lapped how many tax dollars?

[M.C. Gusto]

Originally Posted by MountainTi

You should try to find a better source of information. Alberta collected 146 million in 22/23. Was a good year obviously with high prices but Alberta does far better than 3 million annually

Are you sure about that? 20/21 the gov collected 7.3 million in royalties. That’s according to this site which I may very well be reading wrong
https://www.alberta.ca/coal-royalties-and-reporting