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  #31  
Old 10-16-2018, 08:07 PM
Battle Rat Battle Rat is offline
 
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Originally Posted by obsessed1 View Post
Pushing bush,calling, flushing are all considered hunting. The law states it's illegal to hunt without a tag. Like I said I don't like it or agree with it but that's the law that's written. Hunting without a tag is poaching according to our laws. Should it be? Heck no.

Pre season scouting is not hunting as you don't have a firearm and there is no way any court could convict you of hunting without a weapon. In season with a Elk bugle around your neck and a pocket full of diaphragm calls and you hoochie momma in your hand with no Elk tag in your pocket is pretty clear you are participating in a hunt
What if grand son says" Grampa there's a moose", could the child be charged?
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  #32  
Old 10-16-2018, 08:09 PM
Father of five Father of five is offline
 
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Originally Posted by HunterDave View Post

The Wildlife Act seems pretty clear to me that pushing the bush for someone is participating in a hunt:

(o) “hunt” means, subject to subsection (6), with reference to
a subject animal,
(i) shoot at, harass or worry,
(ii) chase, pursue, follow after or on the trail of, search
for, flush, stalk or lie in wait for,
(iii) capture or wilfully injure or kill,
(iv) attempt to capture, injure or kill, or
(v) assist another person to hunt in a manner specified in
subclause (i), (ii), (iii) or (iv) while that other person
is so hunting;

(2) A person shall not be regarded as having hunted a subject
animal
(a) for the purposes of subsection (1)(o)(ii), if
(i) the person was not carrying a weapon, and
(ii) the purpose of the person’s activity was restricted to
watching, photographing, drawing or painting a
picture of the animal,
.
I think the law needs a rewrite

If I didn’t get drawn this year and my 12 year old son did the law clearly states I can’t hunt with him I can’t glass for animals (search) I can’t sit on the hill side with him and see what comes by (lie in wait for) etc.

I don’t believe this is the intent of the law but that’s the way it’s written
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  #33  
Old 10-16-2018, 08:33 PM
Buckhorn2 Buckhorn2 is offline
 
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If the other person has no weapon he is not hunting. Ive never heard of anyone getting charged with assisting a hunt. Your son daughter can accompany you for sure. Your friend who enjoys being out in the woods is allowed to sit with you while you wait for animals. You can teach your son or daughter how to call or track animals even. Hunting happens when you have a weapon and are looking for an animal. If you have no weapon you are just enjoying nature. No licenses needed for that yet. My cousin comes with me often. My daughter comes with me. I let my 3 year old call moose. The only thing they could possibly charge a person with would be harassing wildlife. I dont agree with your partners pushing bush licensed or not but thats a personal belief. But it is legal so i dont care if others do it. The day i or my friends get charged with enjoying the outdoors together wether there is 20 of us and only one tag. Or 2 of us with one tag is the day ill cut up my guns. As long as the person with the tag is doing the shooting i have no issues with sharing the outdoors with everyone.


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  #34  
Old 10-16-2018, 08:38 PM
Buckhorn2 Buckhorn2 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Father of five View Post
I think the law needs a rewrite



If I didn’t get drawn this year and my 12 year old son did the law clearly states I can’t hunt with him I can’t glass for animals (search) I can’t sit on the hill side with him and see what comes by (lie in wait for) etc.



I don’t believe this is the intent of the law but that’s the way it’s written


You can watch as long as you have no weapon. Read section 2. With no weapon it would be hard to pin you with hunting. It needs a rewrite for sure. Pushing bush with no weapon, is walking in the woods not hunting.


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  #35  
Old 10-16-2018, 08:54 PM
Father of five Father of five is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Buckhorn2 View Post
You can watch as long as you have no weapon. Read section 2. With no weapon it would be hard to pin you with hunting. It needs a rewrite for sure. Pushing bush with no weapon, is walking in the woods not hunting.


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Read section 2 I’m not an artist and that what it applies to

Like I say the law needs a rewrite
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  #36  
Old 10-16-2018, 08:58 PM
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lead chucker lead chucker is offline
 
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What if I have an elk tag and my partner has a moose tag in the same zone, does that mean that I can't assist him in his moose because I dont hold a moose tag?and the same for him with my elk? Or are we both good because we both hold valid licenses in that zone?
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  #37  
Old 10-16-2018, 09:06 PM
obsessed1 obsessed1 is offline
 
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Originally Posted by lead chucker View Post
What if I have an elk tag and my partner has a moose tag in the same zone, does that mean that I can't assist him in his moose because I dont hold a moose tag?and the same for him with my elk? Or are we both good because we both hold valid licenses in that zone?
I was holding a valid WT tag and bow licence but the answer I got was I could not call for my buddy hunting Elk cause I did not have a valid Elk tag. Like I have said I don't agree with the rules the way they are printed. But it's possible to be charged if the CO decides to as they are the rules like them or not.
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  #38  
Old 10-16-2018, 09:52 PM
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walking buffalo walking buffalo is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Talking moose View Post
We may have to call in walking buffalo for this one....






This is pretty simple.

The Fuzz could hammer you if they wanted to with the way the law is written.
They simply have made a "policy" decision in general not to.


But when they want to....

People are not charged with "assisting" on a hunt, they are charged with specific infractions for hunting illegally such as not having a licence to pursue that subject animal. We see these charges all the time in the local rags Poaching piece.


Or when they enter your vehicle without a warrant....


And that response potentially from Enforcement in the OP.
I hope that isn't real. What a redickulous spin.... absolutely no connection to actual law. I hope the author was part of the government Pot testing program when writing this.
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  #39  
Old 10-16-2018, 10:23 PM
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lead chucker lead chucker is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by obsessed1 View Post
I was holding a valid WT tag and bow licence but the answer I got was I could not call for my buddy hunting Elk cause I did not have a valid Elk tag. Like I have said I don't agree with the rules the way they are printed. But it's possible to be charged if the CO decides to as they are the rules like them or not.
That's crazy! What's the point of hunting camp then? These laws are just plain stupid
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  #40  
Old 10-16-2018, 11:03 PM
dustinjoels dustinjoels is offline
 
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Originally Posted by lead chucker View Post
That's crazy! What's the point of hunting camp then? These laws are just plain stupid
Yes it’s ridiculous. That’s why the court has precedent. Never heard of anyone getting charged for pushing bush or calling for a friend and never will.
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  #41  
Old 10-16-2018, 11:07 PM
dustinjoels dustinjoels is offline
 
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My opinion for why the wording of the law is written the way it is, is to put in place stops and measures to prevent people “aiding” in the hunt out of season or no season with someone with treaty rights. Only situation where I’ve ever heard of it being enforced. Whether that’s right or wrong, not for me to decide and I won’t give my opinion.
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  #42  
Old 10-16-2018, 11:38 PM
HunterDave HunterDave is offline
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Originally Posted by walking buffalo View Post
People are not charged with "assisting" on a hunt, they are charged with specific infractions for hunting illegally such as not having a licence to pursue that subject animal. We see these charges all the time in the local rags Poaching piece.

And that response potentially from Enforcement in the OP.
I hope that isn't real. What a redickulous spin.... absolutely no connection to actual law. I hope the author was part of the government Pot testing program when writing this.
Do you know of any specific cases of an unlicensed person getting charged for helping another hunter fill his tag by actively participating in the hunt or would you know where I could find such a case.

Here is the text that someone received from Alberta Fish & Wildlife Enforcement (it looks legit to me):





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  #43  
Old 10-16-2018, 11:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Father of five View Post
I think the law needs a rewrite

If I didn’t get drawn this year and my 12 year old son did the law clearly states I can’t hunt with him I can’t glass for animals (search) I can’t sit on the hill side with him and see what comes by (lie in wait for) etc.

I don’t believe this is the intent of the law but that’s the way it’s written
It does seem off. I feel like if any of the above was done while in possession of a gun or bow then it would be an infraction. But how do you teach a kid to call or rattle or how to track in the bush on a still hunt or to follow up wounded game?
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  #44  
Old 10-17-2018, 07:13 AM
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Lefty-Canuck Lefty-Canuck is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Talking moose View Post
Don’t know nothing about antelope hunting but I hope all decoys that you hold are does......
During archery only season, we use both buck and for decoys.

LC
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  #45  
Old 10-17-2018, 07:14 AM
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Talking moose Talking moose is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck View Post
During archery only season, we use both buck and for decoys.

LC
During archery makes sense. Whew.
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  #46  
Old 10-17-2018, 09:20 AM
Akoch Akoch is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by obsessed1 View Post
Tagging along is not a problem. Assisting in the hunt is what we are talking about. It's always been legal to accompany a hunter to carry gear,run back up bear protection( with appropriate tags) wrangle the pack horses...ECT.. But from my conversation with F&W this fall I am under the impression that to participate in the hunt you need a valid tag. As I said different COs might give different answers as to wether or not you can or will be charged.
You think you need a bear tag in order to protect yourself from a bear? If a bear attacks during the summer while your out fishing you need to get mauled just because you don’t have the appropriate tags?

You only need tags if you intend to hunt that animal, you can take your weapons for a walk through the woods any time you want with no tag. Having a tag for a bear while out hunting is useful if you were to get attacked, shoot it in defence, but didn’t want the hassle of reporting it and going through an investigation. If you truly shot it in defence the investigation would prove that though and it wouldn’t be an issue if you didn’t have a tag.

Determining intent to hunt is tricky but I think our COs do a pretty fine job of figuring out who is hunting and who is helping.
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  #47  
Old 10-17-2018, 09:32 AM
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58thecat 58thecat is offline
 
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Originally Posted by hermn8r View Post
I know this is based on Alberta, and here in Manitoba it's the same, but there are some pretty stiff CO's here that would still try and nail you. Just my personal experience anyways
If your lips are spewing and your rude they might take a harder look at you but been with many hunting buddies And got checked out, only fella with the weapon had to produce a tag as I told them I was the camp cook, back Parker, bush pusher etc and had no issues at all didn't even have to show personal identification....just shared a few laughs and off we went.
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  #48  
Old 10-17-2018, 09:36 AM
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By the letter of law, even a photographer pursuing an animal to take photos, could be charged.
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  #49  
Old 10-18-2018, 07:29 AM
obsessed1 obsessed1 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Akoch View Post
You think you need a bear tag in order to protect yourself from a bear? If a bear attacks during the summer while your out fishing you need to get mauled just because you don’t have the appropriate tags?

You only need tags if you intend to hunt that animal, you can take your weapons for a walk through the woods any time you want with no tag. Having a tag for a bear while out hunting is useful if you were to get attacked, shoot it in defence, but didn’t want the hassle of reporting it and going through an investigation. If you truly shot it in defence the investigation would prove that though and it wouldn’t be an issue if you didn’t have a tag.

Determining intent to hunt is tricky but I think our COs do a pretty fine job of figuring out who is hunting and who is helping.
Of course I know that. All I'm saying is if my buddy is armed and hunting moose and i am along calling for him also armed ( for bear defence) and we get stoped. It would be easier to explain my being armed for bear defence with a tag in my pocket than being tagless in possession of a weapon and calling for my buddy hunting his moose.
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  #50  
Old 10-18-2018, 12:03 PM
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Originally Posted by dustinjoels View Post
They allow non hunters to tag along on the wainwright and suffield hunts so this whole discussion is a moot point.
Yes they do and I have, but as explained to me at the check station upon sign in by F & W. The non hunters are not supposed to get out of the vehicle unless they are assisting in helping you load your game.
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  #51  
Old 10-18-2018, 01:03 PM
Joe Black Joe Black is offline
 
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Originally Posted by thumper View Post
By the letter of law, even a photographer pursuing an animal to take photos, could be charged.
absolutely. it all depends if the officer wants to charge you under this law. they have the ability to use this catch all if they feel an infraction has occurred and want a conviction. there was a thread a while back with that huge sheep that was taken by the sheep river a few years back, the successful hunter "was taking pictures and inadvertently pushed the sheep out of the park" then shot it. he was charged and convicted for hunting in a closed area.

same COULD apply to you/your buddy with a camera if the circumstances were similar to the above. i do not believe CO will lay a charge with this law 98% of the time.
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  #52  
Old 10-18-2018, 01:33 PM
dustinjoels dustinjoels is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Joe Black View Post
absolutely. it all depends if the officer wants to charge you under this law. they have the ability to use this catch all if they feel an infraction has occurred and want a conviction. there was a thread a while back with that huge sheep that was taken by the sheep river a few years back, the successful hunter "was taking pictures and inadvertently pushed the sheep out of the park" then shot it. he was charged and convicted for hunting in a closed area.

same COULD apply to you/your buddy with a camera if the circumstances were similar to the above. i do not believe CO will lay a charge with this law 98% of the time.
Exactly. CO’s aren’t out to get us. They use common sense like everyone else. They aren’t going to charge photographers for creeping up and taking pictures of animals in the park. But if they chase them out of the park and then shoot the animal, sure that makes sense.

Otherwise you couldn’t walk to your tree stand and climb up before legal shooting light or set up your goose decoys in the dark and climb in your blind. This would be lying in wait with a weapon. Are you hunting at that time, NO! Everyone knows this.

Same as bringing a friend or kid with you and teaching them the outdoors and what hunting is all about (tracking/calling etcetera). No CO is offer going to charge anyone for this.
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  #53  
Old 10-18-2018, 02:03 PM
FCLightning FCLightning is offline
 
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Originally Posted by thumper View Post
By the letter of law, even a photographer pursuing an animal to take photos, could be charged.
Not quite - since the "letter of the law" includes a clause exempting photographers from the definition of "hunting".

(2) A person shall not be regarded as having hunted a subject
animal
(a) for the purposes of subsection (1)(o)(ii), if
(i) the person was not carrying a weapon, and
(ii) the purpose of the person’s activity was restricted to
watching, photographing, drawing or painting a
picture of the animal,
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  #54  
Old 10-18-2018, 02:15 PM
Joe Black Joe Black is offline
 
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and the case i stated the poacher thought he could skirt the law by using the photograph excuse to push an animal out of a park, and got nailed.

if you are breaking the law in a similar scenario, and a CO suspects it and has grounds to charge you, you will probably get charged.

just my point.
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  #55  
Old 10-18-2018, 03:00 PM
last minute last minute is offline
 
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Don't read so much into it just go out and enjoy Life's too short.
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