Rimfire Thought??

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

Wholly smokes, it’s just a rimfire! You’d swear you insulted some guy’s wife by how worked up they get over a corvette

I considered buying a high end rimfire but a $400 savage would probably get a guy some decent groups. For a few bucks more a CZ would get you the same size groups but in a more prestigious platform. If I was to step up from that I wouldn’t waste my money on an Anschutz, I’d go straight up to the Vudoo without a doubt. But for the money I’d be all over the Tikka T1X, although the CZ Royal keeps calling me.

Straight up to a Vudoo, do you actually believe that a Vudoo will shoot a smaller groups than an Anschutz 54 or Fortner match rifle?

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Straight up to a Vudoo, do you actually believe that a Vudoo will shoot a smaller groups than an Anschutz 54 or Fortner match rifle?

To be honest I don’t think an Anschutz can shoot smaller groups than a savage, what I found was the more I spent on ammo, the tighter my groups got. If I was serious about rimfires, and wanted to spend more than CZ$$ on a rifle I would definitely go Vudoo.

I fall in the category of people who think rimfires are toys, the only purpose I have for them is plinking or letting my boys shoot chickens though. With my CZ, shooting 1/2” groups @ 50yds with mid range ammo (up to $10/box of 50) was common.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

To be honest I don’t think an Anschutz can shoot smaller groups than a savage, what I found was the more I spent on ammo, the tighter my groups got. If I was serious about rimfires, and wanted to spend more than CZ$$ on a rifle I would definitely go Vudoo.

I fall in the category of people who think rimfires are toys, the only purpose I have for them is plinking or letting my boys shoot chickens though. With my CZ, shooting 1/2” groups @ 50yds with mid range ammo (up to $10/box of 50) was common.

Anschutz wins a lot of rimfire competitions, how many do you think Savage wins?

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Anschutz wins a lot of rimfire competitions, how many do you think Savage wins?

Like I said, for what I use a rimfire for I’d buy a CZ or Tikka, and if I was shooting matches I’d buy a Vudoo. I have no idea how many matches are won by Savage, but I bet there are a few. I’d bet a Savage shooting Lapua ammo would outshoot an Anschutz shooting wildcats.

[Off in the Bushes]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

I’d bet a Savage shooting Lapua ammo would outshoot an Anschutz shooting wildcats.

I think this statement would be worth some field trials to back it up, as we know from previous threads that rimfire ammo has alot to with it accuracy.

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by Off in the Bushes

I think this statement would be worth some field trials to back it up, as we know from previous threads that rimfire ammo has alot to with it accuracy.

I don’t have expirience with savage or anschutz rimfires, or Lapua ammo but just from seeing the difference between wildcats and mid grade eley ammo in my CZ, the group sizes were literally triple the size with the wildcats.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

I don’t have expirience with savage or anschutz rimfires, or Lapua ammo but just from seeing the difference between wildcats and mid grade eley ammo in my CZ, the group sizes were literally triple the size with the wildcats.

So you have no experience with Anschutz or Savage rimfires, and yet you make the statement that Anschutz match rifles won't outshoot Savage rimfires? In order to do a valid comparison, you would need to test a few match loads in both. Using Wildcats to judge the accuracy of any rimfire, would be like choosing a random low priced factory load to judge the accuracy of your new high dollar centerfire rifle. Whether we are talking rimfire or centerfire, the ammunition is certainly important, but there is still a difference in the accuracy potential of the rifles.

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

So you have no experience with Anschutz or Savage rimfires, and yet you make the statement that Anschutz match rifles won't outshoot Savage rimfires?

I didn’t say that, go back and read what I wrote.

What I said I didn’t think the Anschutz would shoot smaller groups than the savage, that the ammo makes a bigger difference. What I also said was that if I were to step up from a CZ, Tikka or a Savage it wouldn’t be on an Anschutz, it would be on a Vudoo, I wouldn’t have a second thought. An Anschutz is a nice rifle but the Vudoo is on another level imo.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

I didn’t say that, go back and read what I wrote.

What I said I didn’t think the Anschutz would shoot smaller groups than the savage, that the ammo makes a bigger difference. What I also said was that if I were to step up from a CZ, Tikka or a Savage it wouldn’t be on an Anschutz, it would be on a Vudoo, I wouldn’t have a second thought. An Anschutz is a nice rifle but the Vudoo is on another level imo.

So you have no experience with Anschuz rimfire match rifles, but Vudoo rifles are on another level? How many Vudoo rimfire rifles do you have experience with ? Or are you just forming your opinion based on some online articles, with no actual experience with either of these manufacturers??

[Smokinyotes]

The only savage rifle in my safe is an ugly heavy barrel 17hmr. It shoots every bit as good as my CZ but the action is pretty crude, jams doesn’t pick up shells. If you have 1 savage it’s 1 too many in my opinion.

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

So you have no experience with Anschuz rimfire match rifles, but Vudoo rifles are on another level? How many Vudoo rimfire rifles do you have experience with ? Or are you just forming your opinion based on some online articles, with no actual experience with either of these manufacturers??

I think anschutz is a corvette and a vudoo is a Porsche 918 spyder, a CZ is like a mustang. Have you ever looked into the vudoo production? How many vudoo’s do you have expirience with? Are you saying the anschutz outshoots the vudoo?

Based on every article I’ve ever read, every video I’ve ever watched, and every account from those who own them, the vudoo is everything they say it is. They look way better than an anschutz and the options available to customize them are awesome. So having no first hand expirience with either, my money would be spent on the vudoo.

Tell me why the anschutz is better than the vudoo since you seem to know something I have not heard about.

[Groundhogger]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

To be honest I don’t think an Anschutz can shoot smaller groups than a savage, what I found was the more I spent on ammo, the tighter my groups got. If I was serious about rimfires, and wanted to spend more than CZ$$ on a rifle I would definitely go Vudoo.

I fall in the category of people who think rimfires are toys, the only purpose I have for them is plinking or letting my boys shoot chickens though. With my CZ, shooting 1/2” groups @ 50yds with mid range ammo (up to $10/box of 50) was common.

^well, as I've said/joked about a few times...I'm certainly no expert marksman, but having shot 22s very seriously for 29 years...I can honestly say that I've never heard anyone say that, nor is it anywhere NEAR consistent with my experiences. (2 Anschutz/several Savages) I would, however, agree with the second part of that statement~not only is good ammo key to good accuracy, but every rimfire rifle I've owned showed a strong preference for one or two ammo types~even among higher-end offerings. Meaning, you let the gun pick what it wants to eat.

As for considering them toys~any firearm that isn't actually "needed" could fall into that category, whether it's a 22LR, or 300WM. If you're sitting in front of a computer, or $1,000 cell phone with at data plan typing a comment like that..chances are, you don't technically "need" a firearm of any kind, so they're all "toys"..aren't they?

My 2, most recent firearm purchases were rifles, one in 9mm...one in 45/70, so I don't exactly have rimfire blinders on. Still, 22LR is my favourite caliber and the one I use most, so it only stands to reason my best rifle be a 22LR, and say "Anschutz" on the side of it.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

I think anschutz is a corvette and a vudoo is a Porsche 918 spyder, a CZ is like a mustang. Have you ever looked into the vudoo production? How many vudoo’s do you have expirience with? Are you saying the anschutz outshoots the vudoo?

Based on every article I’ve ever read, every video I’ve ever watched, and every account from those who own them, the vudoo is everything they say it is. They look way better than an anschutz and the options available to customize them are awesome. So having no first hand expirience with either, my money would be spent on the vudoo.

Tell me why the anschutz is better than the vudoo since you seem to know something I have not heard about.

I am not saying that the Anschutz will outshoot the Vudoo, and I am not saying that the Vudoo will outshoot the Anschutz, because without first hand experience with both, I would only be guessing like you are. I do have a fair amount of experience with Anschutz match rifles though, having owned an older Match 54, a 1907R, a 54MS-R, and a 1927 F. So I have seen first hand what kind of groups I can shoot with them ,using different grades of match ammunition. And I do have experience with several Savage rimfires, and although they shoot well for the price, they are not equivalent accuracy wise, to my Anschutz rimfires.

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

I am not saying that the Anschutz will outshoot the Vudoo, and I am not saying that the Vudoo will outshoot the Anschutz, because without first hand experience with both, I would only be guessing like you are. I do have a fair amount of experience with Anschutz match rifles though, having owned an older Match 54, a 1907R, a 54MS-R, and a 1927 F. So I have seen first hand what kind of groups I can shoot with them ,using different grades of match ammunition. And I do have experience with several Savage rimfires, and although they shoot well for the price, they are not equivalent accuracy wise, to my Anschutz rimfires.

The only way to get expirience is to shoot one, that’s why I’d buy a vudoo if it was going to spend the money on a match rifle, well that and the fact they look badass. If I’m just shooting small game, I’d buy a Tikka or a CZ.

[gs100bert]

Right now I shoot winchester 22lr If one would spend a little more money and upgrade to better ammo what would most people recommend?

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by gs100bert

Right now I shoot winchester 22lr If one would spend a little more money and upgrade to better ammo what would most people recommend?

SK , RWS, and Eley all produce several grades of match ammunition. SK Standard Plus tends to shoot decent in most rifles, and it is fairly reasonably priced.

[vance]

I read this thread today and will cautiously chime in. Groundhogger's post caught my eye.
Like him, I own 2 Anschutz 22s. One is a CIL imported from the late 60s that I bought from another AO guy years ago. I think it is a 310? Basic non-checkered beech/birch stock, but it just felt great to shoulder, and had nice lines. AND it just plain shot. First 22 I ever owned that was really accurate. It is our go-to squirrel rifle at the cabin, now in the hands of my son. Won't ever sell it.
The other is the M64 MPR that I bought on his recommendation. It makes me feel fortunate every time I shoot it. The trigger is amazing and I know that it is actually better than I have the skills and feel to discern. Working on developing that. It shoots as he says.

Part of the charm of these rifles is the history of a company building the very best 22 rifle they can for a long, long time. I have had several savages, marlins, CZs (still have 4 CZ rimfires) and like them all. Anschutz just has something extra.
Vance

[SakoShooter]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

To be honest I don’t think an Anschutz can shoot smaller groups than a savage, what I found was the more I spent on ammo, the tighter my groups got. If I was serious about rimfires, and wanted to spend more than CZ$$ on a rifle I would definitely go Vudoo.

I fall in the category of people who think rimfires are toys, the only purpose I have for them is plinking or letting my boys shoot chickens though. With my CZ, shooting 1/2” groups @ 50yds with mid range ammo (up to $10/box of 50) was common.

This is a simply bizarre attitude to take.... you think of rimfires as toys, haven't really shot a good .22 because a CZ is good enough, if you wanted a good one an Anchutz wouldn't be any better than a CZ so you'd buy a more expensive brand because you're convinced it would actually be significantly better than all others.... based on just because?

I think you are either trolling, or delusional, as the above opinions can't be tied to any reasonable facts or logic of a sort that I've encountered in the real world.

Maybe you're just a sucker for fancy elitist marketing, but you should probably sleep on this thread as it appears you haven't thought this topic through before digging in.

[marxman]

Originally Posted by gs100bert

Right now I shoot winchester 22lr If one would spend a little more money and upgrade to better ammo what would most people recommend?

I bought sk biathlon from Tesro the cheaper stuff. It works well down to minus 20 unlike any cheap ammo I tried, blazer winchester etc.its standard velocity and works well a bit more money but still only half the expensive stuff

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by Trochu

It would be nice to have a Cooey in a way.

I got one that is freakin'accurate....sick accurate....I call it a sleeper in car terms....and then....

[marxman]

Young competitors around the world use the 64 and are confident with it. You can get a rifle and trigger for almost any application and I bet anschutz isn’t going to mess with the success and standard they have built up. The vuddo is much more expensive I don’t think they even come with a trigger and are not comparable price wise to the rifle the o.p. Is talking about. Maybe the tikka could be a cheaper alternative if you don’t need the wide choice you can get in an anschutz. I don’t know but if cz builds their rimfire like they build the 550 and 527 I have had they will not compare to the anschutz. If you go to Nordic marksman site and see the regime anschutz has built around the 64 with all the different triggers and stocks, sights and barrels and every spare part it’s clear that they didn’t come up with this overnight

[oldgutpile]

Are we talking about actual target guns, or just the normal gopher patch shooters?
Anschutz would be more of a specialty gun for the match shooters. Too much money for me to use in the gopher patch. I honestly have a hard time justifying taking out my Winchester 52 out for normal patch shooting. I like to keep it for at the range. The browning T-bolt is more than adequate for gophers, and I have had great luck with them.
For match (which I confess I have no experience), if I were to consider being a serious player, Anschutz would be the top of my list to start. You do get what you pay for in most cases.

[barsik]

some 22's like the Fortner and Vudoo are extremely accurate, others like the Anshutz 54 series, Winchester 52, and Remington 40x are also on the same level. a small step down would be the Sako rimfire, Anschutz 64 series, Brno 4, and maybe a select few of the CZ line that for whatever reason shoot better than they should.(Tikka have yet to prove themselves) next rung down has a lot of entries and a very few of them will print groups smaller than their price point. moral of the story is everyone has to weigh their personal circumstances with their choice of firearm. just making a decision to purchase a firearm is a step in the right direction.

[Groundhogger]

Originally Posted by marxman

Young competitors around the world use the 64 and are confident with it. You can get a rifle and trigger for almost any application and I bet anschutz isn’t going to mess with the success and standard they have built up. The vuddo is much more expensive I don’t think they even come with a trigger and are not comparable price wise to the rifle the o.p. Is talking about. Maybe the tikka could be a cheaper alternative if you don’t need the wide choice you can get in an anschutz. I don’t know but if cz builds their rimfire like they build the 550 and 527 I have had they will not compare to the anschutz. If you go to Nordic marksman site and see the regime anschutz has built around the 64 with all the different triggers and stocks, sights and barrels and every spare part it’s clear that they didn’t come up with this overnight

^the trigger on a CZ 452 rimfire (unmodified) isn't even as good as most Savage Accutriggers I've owned/tried. lol Still, the CZs I've owned shot better than the Savages in spite of this. The CZ 527's set trigger is maybe comparable (in feel) to the less common CZ 453 rimfire...which was an upgraded 452 to include a set trigger as well. I've modified my 452 triggers with Yo Dave spring/shim kits and they're more civilized now...but I feel there is room for improvement, so I'll be looking at Rifle Basix to see if they have one for it. I've put those in Marlin 917s...just awesome.

As for model 64 Anschutz I have (trigger 5098)..I would quite honestly find it hard to believe there was a better trigger anywhere, because I simply don't know how it could be improved on. Granted, maybe my frame of reference isn't the best..but I've owned/used Rifle Basix on 2 guns, have owned a Cooper (which was the best up until the 64), have shot lots of Savages, a few Tikkas, 1 Remington 700 unmodified, and scores of rimfires.

Anyhow...I'll echo what marxman has said~take a look @ Nordic's site if you want to get a sense of what's available. I have room in my heart for all kinds of makes/models~including Savage. In fact, I'll probably be buying a B-series bolt gun in 22 WMR in 2019 myself. I have zero faith that 22WMR guns can shoot better than 1" reliably @ 100 yards no matter what ammo you feed it, or what barrel it flies out of. So, no sense in splurging on an CZ in that caliber, let alone and Anschutz.

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by SakoShooter

This is a simply bizarre attitude to take.... you think of rimfires as toys, haven't really shot a good .22 because a CZ is good enough, if you wanted a good one an Anchutz wouldn't be any better than a CZ so you'd buy a more expensive brand because you're convinced it would actually be significantly better than all others.... based on just because?

I think you are either trolling, or delusional, as the above opinions can't be tied to any reasonable facts or logic of a sort that I've encountered in the real world.

Maybe you're just a sucker for fancy elitist marketing, but you should probably sleep on this thread as it appears you haven't thought this topic through before digging in.

I think comprehension might be a bit of the reason behind some of your angst. What is said was if I wanted something better than a CZ I would skip the anschutz and go with a vudoo.

The fanboys of anschutz are worst than any other product I’ve encoutered to date, and if you’ve ever been on archerytalk, that says a lot! The tears and the uproar some of you have is hilarious.

I don’t believe an anschutz is any more accurate than a vudoo, however the platforms available for the vudoo are much more appealing to me. Trust me, I’ve “dug in” to the topic of rimfires.

Why does it hurt your feelings so much that I would much rather spend my money on a rifle that’s every bit as accurate as your anschutz only in a more appealing platform?

The reason I first posted on this thread is because I agree 100% with the op, I think that for the money, anschutz seems dated in their platform, I think their product could use some refining, that’s why I’d choose a vudoo.


Since you are obviously the expert on the subject, what makes the anschutz better than the vudoo? I would like to know where I am mistaken in preferring a vudoo over an anschutz.

[cody j]

Are anshutz fanboys worse than Creedmoor fanboys?

[catnthehat]

The interesting point that most missed ( myself included) when mentioning matches or competitions is the fact that there are a very diverse number of different types.
Personally speaking I would not consider something that was designed for silhouette shooting in a 3 position match rifle competition or vice versa - two completely different requirements, weight bring only one of them.
Being able to install a single point sling and/ or a palm rest is also needed on a 3P gun.

My main focus when I was competing was three position and prone SFC/ISU style shooting and a rifle capable of using iron sights was mandatory as well as a scope for separate events.
In BR50 a rifle with a flat forend and good scope was the goto.
For Silhouette in hunter class and in unlimited s Magazine was preferable and weight is very controlled .
In ALL of these Matches however , being able to dope the conditions and knowing how to put a proper shot sequence together under pressure will win the match in most cases , not so much the rifle
Cat

[catnthehat]

To add to the above , if a person wants to buy a particular rifle, that is up to them to decide , no one else!
Personal decisions aside , if they think the rifle only will win a match they are mistaken .
If they just want to shoot high end gear then nothing else matters!
Cat

[Dean2]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

I think comprehension might be a bit of the reason behind some of your angst. What is said was if I wanted something better than a CZ I would skip the anschutz and go with a vudoo.

The fanboys of anschutz are worst than any other product I’ve encoutered to date, and if you’ve ever been on archerytalk, that says a lot! The tears and the uproar some of you have is hilarious.

I don’t believe an anschutz is any more accurate than a vudoo, however the platforms available for the vudoo are much more appealing to me. Trust me, I’ve “dug in” to the topic of rimfires.

Why does it hurt your feelings so much that I would much rather spend my money on a rifle that’s every bit as accurate as your anschutz only in a more appealing platform?

The reason I first posted on this thread is because I agree 100% with the op, I think that for the money, anschutz seems dated in their platform, I think their product could use some refining, that’s why I’d choose a vudoo.


Since you are obviously the expert on the subject, what makes the anschutz better than the vudoo? I would like to know where I am mistaken in preferring a vudoo over an anschutz.

I had never heard of Vudoo so I did a bunch of research, I do really like the stock options, the LH repeater availability, the choices in barrel lengths, contours and the fact it fits 700 Short action stocks. Lots of reasons to want to get one and try it out. That said, I have shot Timmney triggers and Anschutz and I will take the Anschutz trigger every time. I also could not find any matches that list Vudoo as the winning rifle in any discipline. The current world record 2500 score for ARA 50 Bullseye was shot using a Turbo action with a 2 groove Benchmark barrel.

I think such a strident position based on no actual hands on experience is typical of internet discussions. From what I can see, the Vudoo and Anschutz 54 and Fortners are about the same price range, which is to say a whole bunch more than an Anschutz 64. I have never owned a Vudoo, and until I have actually shot one, and until I actually see them winning high end matches, I would have a hard time making a blanket statement that they are superior to other high end RFs like Walthers, Lithgow, Anschutz, Borden etc.

I think this would be a lot more useful place if the discussions revolved around actual experience instead of; "I read it on the internet so this must make it true". I make it a practice to only post information on things I have personally witnessed or done, not second hand to fifth hand accounts.

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by Dean2

I had never heard of Vudoo so I did a bunch of research, I do really like the stock options, the LH repeater availability, the choices in barrel lengths, contours and the fact it fits 700 Short action stocks. Lots of reasons to want to get one and try it out. That said, I have shot Timmney triggers and Anschutz and I will take the Anschutz trigger every time. I also could not find any matches that list Vudoo as the winning rifle in any discipline. The current world record 2500 score for ARA 50 Bullseye was shot using a Turbo action with a 2 groove Benchmark barrel.

I think such a strident position based on no actual hands on experience is typical of internet discussions. From what I can see, the Vudoo and Anschutz 54 and Fortners are about the same price range, which is to say a whole bunch more than an Anschutz 64. I have never owned a Vudoo, and until I have actually shot one, and until I actually see them winning high end matches, I would have a hard time making a blanket statement that they are superior to other high end RFs like Walthers, Lithgow, Anschutz, Borden etc.

I think this would be a lot more useful place if the discussions revolved around actual experience instead of; "I read it on the internet so this must make it true". I make it a practice to only post information on things I have personally witnessed or done, not second hand to fifth hand accounts.

Ah, you own an anschutz, that explains your comment on the Tikka thread.

You spent less than a day researching vudoo rimfires. I’d suggest looking into them a little more.

Any stock made for a r700 will fit, any trigger made for an r700 will fit, including trigger tech. They are a new company, watch for them on the leader board and podium.

I would rather have one over an anschutz based on facts, these aren’t just blanket statements.


Btw, It was from researching the internet that I bought my first Nula, think about that.