Sorry end to a great last day fishing

[Tb_45]

Originally Posted by tallieho

pretty amazing ;Then why have cleaning stn's at our lakes.?

for people who eat fish while camping??

[NEWB]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

You can't be charged for the suspicion of an act...can you?

LC

It is a very dangerous slope to charge on something that has not occurred.

F&W could have warned him or waited untill he left the park before pulling him over and issuing a ticket.

As it is the OP was just sitting in his truck about to leave. He had not left, nor was in the process of transporting.

That is about as equivilent of sitting at the boat launch, you have 3 rods with tackle on them and the officer charging you with having more than one rod in the water. There is suspicion you might do it, but no proof untill it happens.

For the record most of the F&W officers i have met were decent. I have run into a handful where they were very sketchy..

[greylynx]

And which detachment does JORDON BAIER #7377
reside out of?

[Jack&7]

Originally Posted by Jet

You could probably fight this one. You're wrong by the rules, however he did verify the fish was legal, let you go on your way and then stopped you for a different offense with the same fish. I.E. It's not really in the spirit of the law. The spirit of the law is to stop poaching and he'd verified you weren't poaching and he'd ID'd the fish.

There's the law, and the spirit of the law and for the CO's, it's about the money. Fight it !

And there it is...BINGO. Fight this one....you will win.

[JohninAB]

Originally Posted by NEWB

OP,

You did not transport fish illegally. You never transported the fish.

You were in your truck about to leave when John.Q law got excited and wrote you a ticket for something that never factually happened..

"If" you were on the highway and were pulled over with out species identification or adequate proof of size limit then you may be pooched.


The officer gave you a ticket for something that has not happened.

Challenge the ticket and make an example of this LEO.

He told the CO he was going home. Game, set and match at that point for the CO.

[pickrel pat]

Originally Posted by JohninAB

He told the CO he was going home. Game, set and match at that point for the CO.

Nope.
If he told officer he was going hunting and planned on shooting 11 geese when the limit was 10, can he be charged with over possesion? Same thing. He has to act on it. If you bought a 6 pack and was stopped by police and you told them that later on you planned on drinking it and driving can you be charged with operating a vehicle with a blood alcohol level over .08 yet?

[JohninAB]

Originally Posted by pickrel pat

Nope.
If he told officer he was going hunting and planned on shooting 11 geese when the limit was 10, can he be charged with over possesion? Same thing. He has to act on it. If you bought a 6 pack and was stopped by police and you told them that later on you planned on drinking it and driving can you be charged with operating a vehicle with a blood alcohol level over .08 yet?

Your 08 comment, cop has no idea if 6 beer would put me over nor does it imply I am going to drink them in 1 hour or 10 hours before driving.

Now lets say you are drunk and sitting behind the wheel of your vehicle, not driving, just parked sleeping. 08 guaranteed even though you are not driving.

Tell you about a buddy named Len. Was back at camp when officer showed up and asked what they were all hunting for. Len, being a wise bum said elk. Unfortunately no elk season in the WMU they were in. Judge told him not to get too excited about buying any hunting licenses the next year.

Think the CO is on fairly firm ground here.

[Forest Techer]

Originally Posted by JohninAB

Your 08 comment, cop has no idea if 6 beer would put me over nor does it imply I am going to drink them in 1 hour or 10 hours before driving.

Now lets say you are drunk and sitting behind the wheel of your vehicle, not driving, just parked sleeping. 08 guaranteed even though you are not driving.

Tell you about a buddy named Len. Was back at camp when officer showed up and asked what they were all hunting for. Len, being a wise bum said elk. Unfortunately no elk season in the WMU they were in. Judge told him not to get too excited about buying any hunting licenses the next year.

Think the CO is on fairly firm ground here.

Think you point out more grey than b&w. If your in a bar with keys in your pocket is that care and control of a motor vehicle?

To be charged with possession of illegal wildlife. You would need to have been in possession of illegal wildlife.

If your in a hunting camp. Have a weapon and admit to be hunting elk then it's case closed as far as I'm concerned. What's the defence there? He IS hunting. He did admit to hunting elk. Calling it a joke afterwards would be every criminals excuse. The op was honest and naive, and a little ignorant of the regs. not a jokester

As the saying goes. You can't be a little pregnant. In this case he may not of been pregnant yet : )

[lakerfisher]

Tough one but the CO is correct, a bit of a wiener but still the law is the law..

Suck it up and pay the fine,, be cheaper for you and just rack it up as experience..

[AK47]

Fight the ticket. All purpose of that law is to avoid illegal size or species being transported. Since he already checked the fish when you were cleaning he was acting like douche IMHO. He knew fish was legal and yet acted like there was some questions regarding this fish size or species. Had you been stopped by other CO on the way home it would be different story. Plus you were not yet transporting that fish, just had intention.
Can't fine for that IMHO. What if you changed your mind and decided to cook it there? What if your car did not start and you needed to stay for a night? There is so many things wrong with that ticket.

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by The Reel Deal

X2

Rules are rules. The regs are specific to the transport of fish, if you followed them, you wouldn't be upset right now and could have saved yourself some $.

X2,

Odd as it is as I would prefer to fillet them and leave some skin but then the length thing comes into play. Stick to the law or the law will stick it to you!

[Sundancefisher]

definitely caught you in the wrong. However I caught a few perch one year. Cold day and didn't want to stink the house up. The Fish Cops came over just while I was cleaning the 3 perch. Then said I did not leave any skin on. Wrote me a warning ticket. Left me with an impression...

1) Got to remember that next time.
2) Definitely won't forget that lesson.
3) Fish and Wildlife guy made a good judgement call.
4) I was lucky he made that call.

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by AK47

Fight the ticket. All purpose of that law is to avoid illegal size or species being transported. Since he already checked the fish when you were cleaning he was acting like douche IMHO. He knew fish was legal and yet acted like there was some questions regarding this fish size or species. Had you been stopped by other CO on the way home it would be different story. Plus you were not yet transporting that fish, just had intention.
Can't fine for that IMHO. What if you changed your mind and decided to cook it there? What if your car did not start and you needed to stay for a night? There is so many things wrong with that ticket.

I agree.

Likely a judge would waive the ticket if you fought it. You could also call the officer and explain your confusion and that while the intent of the law was to make sure you didn't break the rules...the officer pre checked your fish and you were legal. Seems like a warning would of been more appropriate unless he warned you before hand verbally.

[Double_A_Ron]

The actual offense I was ticketed for was "Posses game fish other than at permanent residence so that species cannot be readily identified". It wasn't for transporting the fish, the fish was already verified at the cleaning station though.

I'm not sure what I'm going to do, I could fight it stating like some have said that I hadn't left the campground and the fish had been identified prior to the ticket being issued, but I'll probably spend more on gas driving to St Paul then the $172 fine itself.

Some of the commenters hold a hard line that the regs are the regs, uphold the law, and on 99.9% of the regs I completely agree, they are in place to sustain the fisheries for the future generations.

However, when a fish has been verified legal and then to turn around and issue a ticket for being in the possession the legal fish in a unverifiable state is unjust and as stated in a comment above "not in the spirit of the law". A little understanding goes a long way in how our CO's are perceived by the public, a warning should have sufficed and if that had occurred this would have been an entirely different post commending a CO for educating and understanding the situation.

There are times to be the hammer and times to make a judgement call.

[Goater]

I would let a judge decide if you did anything wrong.
What was put down on the receipt?

[Wolftrapper]

Normally I would say pay the ticket.
But if this incident happened just like you said it did, you should fight it.
Definitely let the judge decide or better yet, speak to the crown prosecutor before hand.go to court a little before it actually starts and ask to discuss the ticket with him.
This was a lame ticket to give.
And I'm a square, usually by the book kinda guy.

[RavYak]

This is a slippery topic. The CO may have verified the length but at that time he didn't verify what you were planning to do with the fish. When he figured you were going to transport it illegally(as the law is stated you cannot transport these fish, it doesn't matter if it is a legal size fish or not) he approached you again and you gave him grounds to write you a ticket by confessing you were about to break the law...

Imo the CO should have given you the opportunity to go cook it up instead of driving home with it. You hadn't actually broken the law at that point(just confessed you were going to) as you still had legal ways to deal with the fish. You could go to court and argue this point and you may very well get the fine reduced but I doubt you would get off with nothing. Since you actually had intent to break the law(even though it seems you didn't realize it) I would say you should probably man up and pay the fine but I totally understand not wanting to because imo it is a stupid law(I hate cleaning fish at home, especially when the lake has a cleaning facility...).

[The Reel Deal]

Originally Posted by Double_A_Ron

The actual offense I was ticketed for was "Posses game fish other than at permanent residence so that species cannot be readily identified".

You're guilty as charged. You may only remove the inch by inch before cooking, which means you weren't at your house or campsite ready to prepare it. Rules are rules!

[spinN'flyfish]

At that moment I'd just tell him that I'm just going eat it there. Cook it. Way better letting the guy throw it away like ****. Nonetheless, to avoid all this crap just follow the rules.

[huntsfurfish]

If the CO had any class he could have given you a warning and let you give it to someone in the campground. Guess he didnt think that could be an option when he went to check.

[spinerfisher]

Sucks for the ticket, but totally avoidable. Does anyone read regs????????? Its even on this site!! Look up on page 27 and if you did read them you would not be in this situation.

Cleaning and Transporting Fish
Fish caught in Alberta:
8 Fish cleaned for storage at other than your permanent residence, or
for transport to your permanent residence must not be skinned, cut or
packed in a manner that:
l the species cannot be identified,
l the number of fish cannot be determined, and
l the total length of every fish subject to a size limit cannot be determined.
8 2 pieces of fish of 1 species are considered to be 1 fish.
Tips:
l Carry a cooler and ice for storing whole fish for transport to your
permanent residence.
l Leave the head, tail and skin attached to fish subject to size limits for
accurate length measurements. Internal organs and gills can be removed
to preserve quality.
l Fish that are not subject to size limits may be filleted, but enough skin
must be left on each fillet for species identification purposes.
l Never transport fish in a solid frozen block.
REMEMBER: When cleaning fish away from your permanent
residence, DO NOT REMOVE evidence of species and, if size limits
apply, evidence of length as described above, unless the fish are to be
consumed immediately.

[NEWB]

Originally Posted by spinerfisher

Sucks for the ticket, but totally avoidable. Does anyone read regs????????? Its even on this site!! Look up on page 27 and if you did read them you would not be in this situation.

Cleaning and Transporting Fish
Fish caught in Alberta:
8 Fish cleaned for storage at other than your permanent residence, or
for transport to your permanent residence must not be skinned, cut or
packed in a manner that:
l the species cannot be identified,
l the number of fish cannot be determined, and
l the total length of every fish subject to a size limit cannot be determined.
8 2 pieces of fish of 1 species are considered to be 1 fish.
Tips:
l Carry a cooler and ice for storing whole fish for transport to your
permanent residence.
l Leave the head, tail and skin attached to fish subject to size limits for
accurate length measurements. Internal organs and gills can be removed
to preserve quality.
l Fish that are not subject to size limits may be filleted, but enough skin
must be left on each fillet for species identification purposes.
l Never transport fish in a solid frozen block.
REMEMBER: When cleaning fish away from your permanent
residence, DO NOT REMOVE evidence of species and, if size limits
apply, evidence of length as described above, unless the fish are to be
consumed immediately.

The regs are not in question. The CO is. The CO verified everything was Kosher and let him go. The moment the OP hopped in his truck the CO decided to issue a ticket and confiscate. The OP was not transporting nor in the process of transporting when the ticket and confiscation happened.

There is nothing quite like ticketing citizens for acts they have not committed. I am willing to wager this is not the first time this CO has done it.

[spinerfisher]

Originally Posted by NEWB

The regs are not in question. The CO is. The CO verified everything was Kosher and let him go. The moment the OP hopped in his truck the CO decided to issue a ticket and confiscate. The OP was not transporting nor in the process of transporting when the ticket and confiscation happened.

There is nothing quite like ticketing citizens for acts they have not committed. I am willing to wager this is not the first time this CO has done it.

Um read the OPs post first!!!!!
1. Upon finishing cleaning the fish a parks officer came and measured the skeleton of the fish confirming it was legal size and checked our licenses, then we headed for our truck to head home. --- yes was in the process of going home, regardless of being checked earlier,
2.This is where the day went south.

Once we got to our truck and were just about ready to leave, the parks officer ran over from the cleaning station and asked where we were going, I honestly told him we were heading back to town----Have fun fighting this in court------READ THE REGS. CO is doing his job, if you cannot understand them, you will get a ticket.

[NEWB]

Originally Posted by spinerfisher

Um read the OPs post first!!!!!
1. Upon finishing cleaning the fish a parks officer came and measured the skeleton of the fish confirming it was legal size and checked our licenses, then we headed for our truck to head home. --- yes was in the process of going home, regardless of being checked earlier, 2.This is where the day went south.

Once we got to our truck and were just about ready to leave, the parks officer ran over from the cleaning station and asked where we were going, I honestly told him we were heading back to town----Have fun fighting this in court------READ THE REGS. CO is doing his job, if you cannot understand them, you will get a ticket.

Er...

He had not committed the offence yet. Was about to but at that point he had not.

The OP did not say he was heading directly home, he did not say he was going to stop in the campground for a shore lunch before hitting the road, or heading back the campsite to pack up his gear. All of which are plausible.

The vehicle was NOT put in motion and still stationary. The conditions of movement set out by the TSA were not in place. The vehicle was still parked.


Want to try again?

[rugatika]

Dick move by the CO. Fight the ticket.

[58thecat]

This thread is "PURE" speculation!

[cube]

Originally Posted by Double_A_Ron

The actual offense I was ticketed for was "Posses game fish other than at permanent residence so that species cannot be readily identified". It wasn't for transporting the fish, the fish was already verified at the cleaning station though.


There are times to be the hammer and times to make a judgement call.

I totally feel for you. Personally I think all Fish and Wildlife officers that can't ID a fish species by their fillet should be let go. The unfortunate part about this is because of actions like this they will get a lot less cooperation in the future.

[RavYak]

Originally Posted by NEWB

Er...

He had not committed the offence yet. Was about to but at that point he had not.

The OP did not say he was heading directly home, he did not say he was going to stop in the campground for a shore lunch before hitting the road, or heading back the campsite to pack up his gear. All of which are plausible.

The vehicle was NOT put in motion and still stationary. The conditions of movement set out by the TSA were not in place. The vehicle was still parked.


Want to try again?

Newb, for the record the OP hasn't confirmed one way or another whether he transported the fish. In other words he hasn't clearly stated whether he drove even a foot before the CO approached him.

At a minimum the OP admitted to the CO his intent to break the law, at worse he actually drove a short distance before admitting to breaking the law.

The key here is that the OP didn't realize that transporting the fish in this matter, even if they are legal fish, is actually illegal. Whether or not he broke that law or only had intent to break the law only he truly knows at the moment.

Either way he has enough information to now make a decision how to handle this situation. He may be able to get a reduction in fines or possible even get lucky and avoid it entirely but imo it is far from a guarantee especially if the CO is there in which case it will be his word against the CO's.

This situation sucks and is the result of a frustrating law but it is the law.

[NEWB]

Originally Posted by RavYak

Newb, for the record the OP hasn't confirmed one way or another whether he transported the fish. In other words he hasn't clearly stated whether he drove even a foot before the CO approached him.

At a minimum the OP admitted to the CO his intent to break the law, at worse he actually drove a short distance before admitting to breaking the law.

The key here is that the OP didn't realize that transporting the fish in this matter, even if they are legal fish, is actually illegal. Whether or not he broke that law or only had intent to break the law only he truly knows at the moment.

Either way he has enough information to now make a decision how to handle this situation. He may be able to get a reduction in fines or possible even get lucky and avoid it entirely but imo it is far from a guarantee especially if the CO is there in which case it will be his word against the CO's.

This situation sucks and is the result of a frustrating law but it is the law.

Fair enough.

It all comes down to the fine details to determine if he broke the law or not.

The OP has decisions to make and if he chooses to challenge the ticket then he needs to be very specific on what factually occurred.

[wildwoods]

Originally Posted by stubblejumper01

The OP stated he was cleaning the fish to take home. Sounds like this may be something he has done before, fillet fish to take home. Then you have to leave them whole, less guts and gills so length and species can be verified. Plainly stated in regs.
Cleaning stations are at lakes so people at campground don't throw the guts in the bushes. There are a lot of bears out there people!

I echo this^^^