Conflict in Alberta's Wildrose party

[canadiantdi]

Anyone else find this strange? Looking for more votes next time?


Policy debate at the next Wildrose AGM will likely be "robust" after an apparent about-face by leader Danielle Smith on some key party positions, says one MLA.

Speaking to the lesbian website I Dig Your Girlfriend, Smith said Wildrose would fund sex-change operations if they form government, a reversal from public comments she made a month before.

She also said her party wouldn't allow health-care professionals and marriage commissioners to opt out of performing services that go against their conscience, another reversal from an earlier position.

"As far as I can see, the issue has been decided," she is quoted as saying about conscience rights.

But Airdrie MLA Rob Anderson said policy changes aren't made by any one member, even if it is the leader.

"There's a fundamental principal that clearly states our party develops policy from the grassroots level," Anderson said.

"Wildrose is a grassroots party and policy comes from our membership."

Anderson said he expects there to be a "robust" discussion about the issues at the 2013 Wildrose AGM and no matter what the result, party members will still be able to follow their own consciences.

"I know Danielle well enough to know she respects the idea of free votes enough for her caucus to have a robust discussion," he said.

For his part, Anderson doesn't agree with Smith when it comes to funding sex-change operations.

"That might be her view on it but I've been clear: as long as we don't have enough schools and we can't balance that budget, it's not something I'm going to support."

And Anderson doesn't expect a division in the party as Wildrose members are entitled to their own opinions. "I know people aren't used to people in the same party holding different views," he said.

http://www.edmontonsun.com/2012/07/2...wildrose-party

[Okotokian]

Smith wants to win the next election, Anderson and the gang don't. Thought she might not be a long-term fit with the drooling horde. Chime in all you "I didn't vote for them" signers. Who's wrong here? The Black Queen or your wingnut from Airdrie?

[pikergolf]

Pretty sad, I would like to hear her explanation on why we should funs sex change operations. I find it a let down when politicians cave on things were part of the party line, forcing health care professionals to preform procedures that they find offensive is particularly disappointing.

[Scott N]

Originally Posted by pikergolf

Pretty sad, I would like to hear her explanation on why we should funs sex change operations. I find it a let down when politicians cave on things were part of the party line, forcing health care professionals to preform procedures that they find offensive is particularly disappointing.

Whether a person agrees or disagrees with publicly funded sex change operations, I think it's safe to say that the surgeons who perform them have a rather specialized field. I'd bet that 0% are forced to do any sex change procedure since they would have had to specialize in that type of thing for many years.

[Okotokian]

Originally Posted by Scott N

Whether a person agrees or disagrees with publicly funded sex change operations, I think it's safe to say that the surgeons who perform them have a rather specialized field. I'd bet that 0% are forced to do any sex change procedure since they would have had to specialize in that type of thing for many years.

LOL No, he didn't mean the surgeons who do sex change operations. He meant the WR policy position of letting public servants decide who they will or won't serve in their taxpayer-paid jobs based on their own beliefs or biases. They get to discriminate, and you get to pay them.

[pikergolf]

Originally Posted by Okotokian

LOL No, he didn't mean the surgeons who do sex change operations. He meant the WR policy position of letting public servants decide who they will or won't serve in their taxpayer-paid jobs based on their own beliefs or biases. They get to discriminate, and you get to pay them.

I guess we'll cut to the quick, as you probably guess the procedure that I am speaking of is for Dr. being forced to preform abortions. When a Dr. signs on part of their oath is to do no harm, and more than a few see this as being harmful. I think if this becomes law Dr.s will do there best to shield those that don't want to do them, but sooner or later someone on a crusade will corner a Dr. an try and force the issue, when that happens a lot of potential Dr.s candidates will look else where to practice. Albertans will lose out.

[Sundancefisher]

Politics is all about power. Gaining power and keeping power. They all swing their votes and opinions in the direction that gets them power. Wildrose is doing nothing different than any other party so who cares... Did anyone really think they were different?

[pikergolf]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

Politics is all about power. Gaining power and keeping power. They all swing their votes and opinions in the direction that gets them power. Wildrose is doing nothing different than any other party so who cares... Did anyone really think they were different?

I had hoped they were different, just like I had hoped Harper was different, he even said he would be different and be better. Sadly he lied and has taken mud slinging to a whole new level, every letter I have written to my MP has made reference to the dastardly Libs. and NDP. everyone of them.

[Redfrog]

STOP THE PRESSES. RARE FIND IN ALBERTA.

Today reporters discovered a political party where members actually have differing views on political issues.


WHAT NEXT????

Stay tuned while we investigate a rumor of a husband and wife disagreeing on what to have for lunch.

[rugatika]

Those are both small issues when compared to what Smith and WR bring to the table. I'm against funding these procedures. I don't work my butt off, so that some dude or whatever can have some plastic surgery on my dime. If he wants the surgery...pay for it. His desires are not my responsibility. I disagree with Smith on this one.

Oko, I take it you're OK with funding going from AISH etc, to fund these procedures? There are some very legitimate functions of government, that are underfunded (AISH for one), that should be looked after before we even think about paying for these superfluous operations.

Who's the drooling horde by the way?? The suckers that voted for Redford after she bought their votes with some crumbs? Not sure why you have to repeatedly equate WR supporters with people of sub par intelligence Oko. I would mention the demographics of the average Redford supporter but I hate to get into the weeds with ya on that one.

Who's wrong? Depends on what outcome you're trying to achieve I suppose. If you're going after a win, the easy route is to compromise and move left, like Smith is doing. If you have a certain set of values you want to hold onto, then Anderson is right. Smith is being more of a pragmatist, and Anderson is being more principled. Gives the party a perfect balance. Given that these social issues are small potatoes compared to running Alberta into the ground, I'd happily vote against the drooling hordes and vote WR again whichever route they choose.

[canadiantdi]

Originally Posted by Redfrog

STOP THE PRESSES. RARE FIND IN ALBERTA.

Today reporters discovered a political party where members actually have differing views on political issues.


WHAT NEXT????

Stay tuned while we investigate a rumor of a husband and wife disagreeing on what to have for lunch.

Its not the differing opinion, its the change in opinion that sucks. What else will she go back on to get the popular vote?

[Redfrog]

Originally Posted by canadiantdi

Its not the differing opinion, its the change in opinion that sucks. What else will she go back on to get the popular vote?

Really? You are surprised because a woman changed her mind?

STOP THE PRESSES. ALBERTA WOMAN CHANGES HER MIND.

Do you have the same political views you've always had? You get an idea and there's no way to change your POV?

The sky is not falling. She changed her mind. Listen to the whole argument before you disagree. She may have a very valid reason for her opinion.

[Okotokian]

Originally Posted by rugatika

Oko, I take it you're OK with funding going from AISH etc, to fund these procedures? .

Didn't say that at all. I actually never offered an opinion. Just watching the bloom come off the rose. Leader out of step with her party. When you think about it though, not really surprising... a self-declared libertarian leading a very socially conservative/reactionary party? That's never going to work. Add these issues to an already existing list of things she doesn't agree with her party members on (abortion, gay marriage, now sex changes and conscience rights). And those are just the things she has actually pointed to and admitted. I wonder how much of the party platform she really has no passion for?

[Okotokian]

Originally Posted by Redfrog

ALBERTA WOMAN CHANGES HER MIND.

Maybe she did. Maybe she didn't. But it's clear she doesn't agree with her party now. Guess we will see who wears the pants, her or Anderson.

[Redfrog]

Originally Posted by Okotokian

Maybe she did. Maybe she didn't. But it's clear she doesn't agree with her party now. Guess we will see who wears the pants, her or Anderson.

So the most important thing s in Alberta today are sex change operations, gay marriage and conscience rights?

Really?

Oh wait no it's about who wears the pants. This from a guy in green tights.

[Okotokian]

Originally Posted by Redfrog

So the most important thing s in Alberta today are sex change operations, gay marriage and conscience rights?

Sex change operations, abortion, gay marriage, conscience rights, MLA's right to spout racist statements. If you guys had said these things were not important about 5 months ago you might have won the election. LOL Need I go back into the old threads and pull up quotes from you, ruga, rocky et al about how important these issues were to you???

Oh, and she also said the party might have to change it's tune on climate change too... Yeah, trivial stuff.

[rugatika]

Originally Posted by Okotokian

Didn't say that at all. I actually never offered an opinion. Just watching the bloom come off the rose. Leader out of step with her party. When you think about it though, not really surprising... a self-declared libertarian leading a very socially conservative/reactionary party? That's never going to work. Add these issues to an already existing list of things she doesn't agree with her party members on (abortion, gay marriage, now sex changes and conscience rights). And those are just the things she has actually pointed to and admitted. I wonder how much of the party platform she really has no passion for?

Wow...you really have a lot invested in Redford don't you.

[Okotokian]

Originally Posted by rugatika

Wow...you really have a lot invested in Redford don't you.

Naw, She's no shining star. She's just better than the clearly deteriorating alternative.

[rugatika]

Originally Posted by Okotokian

Naw, She's no shining star. She's just better than the clearly deteriorating alternative.

Well she really nailed that projected oil price, and provincial budget deficit. I'll give you that.

I don't know Oko...I don't have a humanities degree or anything like that...but I think there's something more between the two of you...a certain juh nuh say kwa, as the french say. You really seem to go to bat for her, when the opportunity is there for you to take said bat to Smith.

[Redfrog]

Originally Posted by Okotokian

Sex change operations, abortion, gay marriage, conscience rights, MLA's right to spout racist statements. If you guys had said these things were not important about 5 months ago you might have won the election. LOL Need I go back into the old threads and pull up quotes from you, ruga, rocky et al about how important these issues were to you???

Oh, and she also said the party might have to change it's tune on climate change too... Yeah, trivial stuff.

please look it up and find out how important these issues are to me. I said the so called 'racist' comments were just smoke and mirrors put out by Redfords lackies trying to avoid the real issues. Climate change???Really??? Why doesn't the red queen just legislate it out like she did with the .05.

I notice no one has been charged with impaired or over .05. sleepy hollow can sleep safely tonight.If only, if only.

BTW you're still wearing spandex.

[rugatika]

Originally Posted by Okotokian

Sex change operations, abortion, gay marriage, conscience rights, MLA's right to spout racist statements. If you guys had said these things were not important about 5 months ago you might have won the election. LOL Need I go back into the old threads and pull up quotes from you, ruga, rocky et al about how important these issues were to you???

Oh, and she also said the party might have to change it's tune on climate change too... Yeah, trivial stuff.

I agree with all that stuff...except the racist comments thingy (which really weren't racist at all, just something the media ran with and of course anyone with an extra left chromosome, immediately chanted in line with). Oh and I'm all for gay marriage.

The main goody thing about Smith and the WR is fiscal responsibility is a notch above the PC's. All the rest is icing, so to speak.

[Redfrog]

Originally Posted by rugatika

Well she really nailed that projected oil price, and provincial budget deficit. I'll give you that.

I don't know Oko...I don't have a humanities degree or anything like that...but I think there's something more between the two of you...a certain juh nuh say kwa, as the french say. You really seem to go to bat for her, when the opportunity is there for you to take said bat to Smith.

Speaking of bats where is Allison these days? I've got mosquito issues that need her expertise.

[Okotokian]

Originally Posted by rugatika

except the racist comments thingy (which really weren't racist at all, just something the media ran with and of course anyone with an extra left chromosome, immediately chanted in line with). .

Whether they were racist or not was not my point. The point was WR said it was their right to make those statements, so felt no reason to distance the party from them, or them from the party. Just shrugged. That's ANOTHER postion that has now changed, reluctantly.

I didn't like many of the WR principles, but at least I thought they had some. Now.... LOL

[rugatika]

Originally Posted by Okotokian

Whether they were racist or not was not my point. The point was WR said it was their right to make those statements, so felt no reason to distance the party from them, or them from the party. Just shrugged. That's ANOTHER postion that has now changed, reluctantly.

I didn't like many of the WR principles, but at least I thought they had some. Now.... LOL

Awwww, well I think it's cute how you stick up for Redford like that. It shows loyalty. Most people would be distancing themselves. Good for you!!

[densa44]

Believe it or not there is not a big line up for a sex change. Hands up now, how many of you want it cut off. See what did I tell you.

These are "ranging shots" to see what the public wants and what her party will let her get away with. If they (the party) doesn't move a bit more main stream, I fear they will end up as just another Alberta populist rump.

On the other hand, things are not way better now than before, and if they can get back in touch with the voters they have a chance.

Bye the way no one cares what any individual thinks in government, people want to know what you will DO if they vote for you.

I expect to hear more and more of this.

[Okotokian]

Originally Posted by rugatika

when the opportunity is there for you to take said bat to Smith.

LOL yer joking, right? LOL yeah..... taking shots at the leader of the party you oppose really IS a low blow, aint' it? I'll pass that on to "The Red Queen" the next time she calls me in for a consultation.

I recall in grade 9, a grade 8 punk followed me home and kept trying to egg me on into a fight. I ignored him and kept walking. Finally he did something, can't recall exactly what.... I think knock the books out of my hands. I turned and gave him a single shot right in the face, knocking him to the ground. His response? "Why don't you go pick on someone your own size?". Your comment reminds me of that. It's politics. Expect to be kicked when you're down, especially when you've been doing most of the kicking for the past 12 months, and you're own the ground through your own actions.

[canadiantdi]

Originally Posted by Redfrog

Really? You are surprised because a woman changed her mind?

STOP THE PRESSES. ALBERTA WOMAN CHANGES HER MIND.

Do you have the same political views you've always had? You get an idea and there's no way to change your POV?

The sky is not falling. She changed her mind. Listen to the whole argument before you disagree. She may have a very valid reason for her opinion.

I dont change my political views because people around me disagree.

Maybe she all of a sudden thinks that you and I should pay for penis removals and that pro-life doctors should have to terminate babies... seems odd though, and i kinda think that she didnt change her morals, just her tactic.

You are right though, there could be a valid reason.

[rugatika]

Originally Posted by Okotokian

LOL yer joking, right? LOL yeah..... taking shots at the leader of the party you oppose really IS a low blow, aint' it? I'll pass that on to "The Red Queen" the next time she calls me in for a consultation.

I recall in grade 9, a grade 8 punk followed me home and kept trying to egg me on into a fight. I ignored him and kept walking. Finally he did something, can't recall exactly what.... I think knock the books out of my hands. I turned and gave him a single shot right in the face, knocking him to the ground. His response? "Why don't you go pick on someone your own size?". Your comment reminds me of that. It's politics. Expect to be kicked when you're down, especially when you've been doing most of the kicking for the past 12 months, and you're own the ground through your own actions.

Bragging about beating up a poor little kid? What's next, the time you kicked a little puppy through the goal post? You Redford supporters have no compassion for fellow beings.

Oh and you missed my point. I wasn't criticizing you for beating Smith with a bat...I was just using that point to illustrate your commitment to Redford. For which I congratulated you...and I do again.

[Okotokian]

Originally Posted by Redfrog

Climate change???Really???

Hey, your cutie pie brought it up, not me. So just let me make sure I've heard you and Ruga correctly... SO the following issues have no importance to WR and people shouldn't care about the party's position because it's meaningless:
1) paying for sex change operations
2) abortion
3) gay marriage
4) Conscience rights
5) Climate change
6) And finally, who decides party policy: the party membership through convention or the party Leader by executive decision?

Ok, glad we are clear. That's all meaningluss stuff for show. Gotcha. Glad that's cleared up.

Too funny.

[Redfrog]

I pretty much support the WR party. Doesn't mean I agree with everything they say or do.

I've been married a hundred and fifty years, doesn't mean she doesn't grind my gears sometimes.

It's politics. I'd really choked if I supported someone and they refused to see a better plan or a better way to do things. If I want that I'll call my MIL.