Conflict in Alberta's Wildrose party

[Okotokian]

Originally Posted by rugatika

Bragging about beating up a poor little kid? What's next, the time you kicked a little puppy through the goal post? You Redford supporters have no compassion for fellow beings.

LOL

[Redfrog]

Originally Posted by Okotokian

Hey, your cutie pie brought it up, not me. So just let me make sure I've heard you and Ruga correctly... SO the following issues have no importance to WR and people shouldn't care about the party's position because it's meaningless:
1) paying for sex change operations
2) abortion
3) gay marriage
4) Conscience rights
5) Climate change
6) And finally, who decides party policy: the party membership through convention or the party Leader by executive decision?

Ok, glad we are clear. That's all meaningluss stuff for show. Gotcha. Glad that's cleared up.

Too funny.

Wrong again. I didn't say that. I said there are much more important issue that concern me than whether or not some one wants to be gay.



Rugatika. I don't think Okie is really a bully, it's just when you dress like that you better learn how to fight or run.

[Okotokian]

Originally Posted by Redfrog

Rugatika. I don't think Okie is really a bully, it's just when you dress like that you better learn how to fight or run.

Surprisingly, the outfit doesn't intimidate everyone... LOL

[Big Daddy Badger]

I guess the bloom is off the rose.

First.
I supported the WRP.
Yup.
And not for the usual reasons either.
I supported them because I thought that they had the best chance of forcing an upset in Alberta politics and because of their stance on property rights.
The current regime needed (needs) a shaking up and Alberta voters probably need a change just to show them the flip side and the good and bad that come with it.
For me...a few years of WRP was worth it to achieve that.
A refocus. The electorate voting their conscience and not by muscle memory or habit.

So.

Is this just shameless pandering for moderate votes down the road?

Or was their stance during the election shameless pandering to appeal to the most conservative votes?

Maybe a bit of both.

Whatever....I guess we'll find out whether or not we really have 2 conservative parties in Alberta soon enough.

[Hagalaz]

Originally Posted by Redfrog

The sky is not falling. She changed her mind. Listen to the whole argument before you disagree. She may have a very valid reason for her opinion.

I agree.

[260 Rem]

Gotta love the transformation ....not long ago, some of the pundits in this thread declared a change of mind by Ms. Redford as "flip/flop". Now, it seems that a change of opinion could be justified by having a valid reason. Sounds like Ms. Smith has decided to become a politician and realizes that compromise is not a dirty word. Maybe she does have a future. Unfortunately for WR, there is a lot of baggage to dump.

[Big Daddy Badger]

Originally Posted by Hagalaz

I agree.

Me to.

The election is lost and pandering to the most conservative folks and offending the moderates didn't pay off.
Now its time to ?start/stop? telling people what they want to hear.

She's now headed left of Redford and doesn't seem to be inclined to look back.
Good thing we didn't end up getting those Dani-bucks...we'd probably just have to give em all back.

http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/...082/story.html

[I]"The interview ends with Smith asked with whom she would prefer to share a friendly weekend getaway: Michelle Obama, Hillary Clinton, Sarah Palin or Ellen DeGeneres.

“My Republican friends are going to hate me, but probably Hillary Clinton. I think she would have been a terrific president. She would be a fascinating person to chat with.”/I]

Great now the opposition is also the government elect.

If the leader of the WRP doesn't stop flip flopping, waffling and aping her competition... that party will probably find itself taking a back seat to the Liberals and the NDP in a few years.

[avb3]

Danielle never pretended to be anything else but a libertarian on social issues.

[Big Daddy Badger]

Originally Posted by avb3

Danielle never pretended to be anything else but a libertarian on social issues.

I'm thinking that she wasn't pretending....

[HunterDave]

The WRP arguably lost the election due to the issue of conscience rights which resulted in the general perception that they were a fringe party. This resulted in the Liberal vote moving to the PC in order to keep them out. Viola! The Red Queen wins and Danielle Smith losses. I can't see how she couldn't have eliminated that issue and still expect to have future success. Now she just has to get rid of a couple of lunatics in the party and the idea of voting for the WRP will be allot more appealing to the Conservative voters.

[dantonsen]

alberta is one of the most socialist provinces around we are just afraid to elect a party other than conservatives... by name anyways,lol.

No matter how hard conservatives kick AB in the nuts we go rigth out and vote them in again... Now we have 2 conservative partys

[riden]

I found this interesting, it is from the same interview and was just put up on the Journal's site:

Wildrose Leader calls former Edmonton candidate’s comments “offensive”
By Keith Gerein, edmontonjournal.com July 23, 2012 9:01 PM


Wildrose Opposition Leader Danielle Smith speaks outside the Edmonton Police Chief’s Pride Reception.


EDMONTON - Wildrose Leader Danielle Smith has for the first time spoken out against one of her former candidates whose anti-gay religious views sparked outrage during the spring provincial election.

In an podcast interview with the founders of I Dig Your Girlfriend, an Alberta-based website for lesbian, bisexual and transgendered women, Smith said pastor Allan Hunsperger failed to convince voters that he could represent all of his constituents fairly.

“His comments were so strident, his comments were so offensive that there was no way he was going to be able to convince members of (the gay and lesbian) community or the broader community at large that he would be that kind of representative,” Smith said.

Hunsperger, the Wildrose candidate in Edmonton-South West, became one of the major stories of the election campaign over a blog post he made in 2011. The blog suggested homosexuality was a choice, that gay and lesbian people would burn in a “lake of fire,” and that Edmonton Public Schools was immoral for protecting homosexual students.

Smith at the time refused to condemn Hunsperger, saying she would not discriminate against anyone’s religious views, even if those views discriminated against others.

However her stance began to soften somewhat following the election, when Smith suggested the party would have to re-examine some of its policies. In her comments to I Dig Your Girlfriend, she said Hunsperger’s defeat in his riding fate was “instructive” to the party, indicating the Wildrose will be more cautious in the future when selecting candidates with strong or controversial religious beliefs.
“We have a lot of people (in Alberta) with fairly conservative values who should be allowed to practice their religion,” she said. “But if you want to seek public life, if you want to be a politician, you have to decide what hat you are going to wear. You have to decide that if you are going to be a public official that you will do so in a way that allows you to represent every single one of your constituents.”
The 40-minute interview, which was taped on July 16, came as Smith tries to improve her party’s relations with the gay and lesbian community.

She attended an Edmonton Pride Festival event in June, then drew ire from the community that same week by opposing the Redford government’s decision to reinstitute funding for gender-reassignment surgery. She said the surgery was “elective” rather than medically necessary, and therefore people should pay for it themselves.

Speaking to the issue again in her interview with the website, Smith said her party would not delist the surgery if elected to govern.

“Now that it is funded, I think it would be equally inappropriate to make a political decision and defund it again,” she said. “We have to stop playing political football with these kinds of contentious issues. People need some certainty.”

Asked if she still feels the surgery is elective, Smith did not directly answer but said such decisions need to be made by medical panels rather than politicians. She said the Wildrose office has been flooded with calls from people who want other unfunded procedures and treatments covered.

“I do think there are other priorities that Albertans, if they were given a list of things of that ought to be funded, they probably would not have put this on the top of the list,” she said. “I objected to the way Ms. Redford made the decision. I think the only reason she made it is that she was speaking at a gay pride event the next day.”

The interview also covered issues of same-sex marriage, abortion, conscience rights and feminism. Smith said she does not consider herself a feminist, in part because she believes the movement has aligned itself with “positions that promote a big-government answer” to public policy issues, such as demands for state-covered daycare.

The interview ends with Smith asked with whom she would prefer to share a friendly weekend getaway: Michelle Obama, Hillary Clinton, Sarah Palin or Ellen DeGeneres.

“My Republican friends are going to hate me, but probably Hillary Clinton. I think she would have been a terrific president. She would be a fascinating person to chat with.”

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by dantonsen

...... Now we have 2 conservative partys

Yup, a Red one and a Blue one..............

[JimPS]

Smith wants to win the next election - maybe she just wants to run as man next time.

Jim

[Big Daddy Badger]

Originally Posted by JimPS

Smith wants to win the next election - maybe she just wants to run as man next time.

Jim

I hope not....I'll miss her hubcaps if she does.....sniff.

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by HunterDave

Now she just has to get rid of a couple of lunatics in the party and the idea of voting for the WRP will be allot more appealing to the Conservative voters.

Originally Posted by riden

[LEFT]EDMONTON - Wildrose Leader Danielle Smith has for the first time spoken out against one of her former candidates whose anti-gay religious views sparked outrage during the spring provincial election.

In an podcast interview with the founders of I Dig Your Girlfriend, an Alberta-based website for lesbian, bisexual and transgendered women, Smith said pastor Allan Hunsperger failed to convince voters that he could represent all of his constituents fairly.

“His comments were so strident, his comments were so offensive that there was no way he was going to be able to convince members of (the gay and lesbian) community or the broader community at large that he would be that kind of representative,” Smith said.

Now that's a good start right there!

[Big Daddy Badger]

Originally Posted by HunterDave

The WRP arguably lost the election due to the issue of conscience rights which resulted in the general perception that they were a fringe party. This resulted in the Liberal vote moving to the PC in order to keep them out. Viola! The Red Queen wins and Danielle Smith losses. I can't see how she couldn't have eliminated that issue and still expect to have future success. Now she just has to get rid of a couple of lunatics in the party and the idea of voting for the WRP will be allot more appealing to the Conservative voters.

Here's to hoping Dave.

[Mekanik]

If the premier had to wear a swimsuit, I'd definitely be voting wild rose.

I wanna see under those hubcaps LoL

[Big Daddy Badger]

Originally Posted by Mekanik

If the premier had to wear a swimsuit, I'd definitely be voting wild rose.

I wanna see under those hubcaps LoL

I saw her first...

[insurgus]

Say what you will, I'd still take her out for a nice seafood dinner and never call her again.

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by pikergolf

I guess we'll cut to the quick, as you probably guess the procedure that I am speaking of is for Dr. being forced to preform abortions. When a Dr. signs on part of their oath is to do no harm, and more than a few see this as being harmful. I think if this becomes law Dr.s will do there best to shield those that don't want to do them, but sooner or later someone on a crusade will corner a Dr. an try and force the issue, when that happens a lot of potential Dr.s candidates will look else where to practice. Albertans will lose out.

What "Oath" are you referring to?

[canadiantdi]

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

What "Oath" are you referring to?

The Hippocratic Oath?

Do doctors still do this?

[pikergolf]

Originally Posted by canadiantdi

The Hippocratic Oath?

Do doctors still do this?

That is what i was referring to, was looking for references to see if they still do. I couldn't find anything definitive yet.

[pikergolf]

Originally Posted by pikergolf

That is what i was referring to, was looking for references to see if they still do. I couldn't find anything definitive yet.

I was looking specifically for Alberta but got thinking, probably the higher precentage of Alberta Dr. are trained else where, so from what I can gather most still do.

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by canadiantdi

The Hippocratic Oath?

Do doctors still do this?

Originally Posted by pikergolf

That is what i was referring to, was looking for references to see if they still do. I couldn't find anything definitive yet.

Doctors do not take the Hippocratic Oath in Canada. Few universities in Canada and the US require an oath of any kind. Doctors are now guided by the criminal code.

[Okotokian]

I think Smith is starting to make some of the right noises now. We shall see if her party wants to follow. Bottom line, the WR small 'c' conservative economic agenda will probably sell with Albertans. The small "c" conservative social agenda just won't. And it's becoming increasingly clear the purported leader of the party never believed in it anyway! Amazing. Anderson and the other old boys are out-of-touch with the majority of primarily urban, educated, open-minded Albertans. Just look at the issues that sunk them.... If WR keeps pandering to the haters, those that want a return to some british, white Canada of the 1950's, or those (some of them on this board) who wish Alberta was Texas-north, the party will be smashed in the face like the last time, every time.

[canadiantdi]

Originally Posted by Okotokian

I think Smith is starting to make some of the right noises now. We shall see if her party wants to follow. Bottom line, the WR small 'c' conservative economic agenda will probably sell with Albertans. The small "c" conservative social agenda just won't. Anderson and the other old boys are out-of-touch with the majority of primarily urban, educated, open-minded Albertans. Just look at the issues that sunk them.... If she keeps pandering to the haters, those that want a return to the british, white Canada of the 1950's, or those (some of them on this board) who wish Alberta was Texas-north, the party will be smashed in the face like the last time, every time.

Are you talking about people who do not think that health professionals should have to provide services that their religion prohibits?

[pikergolf]

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

Doctors do not take the Hippocratic Oath in Canada. Few universities in Canada and the US require an oath of any kind. Doctors are now guided by the criminal code.

Given the age and different demographics of our physicians, I would guess a high precentage has taken the oath.

[Okotokian]

Originally Posted by canadiantdi

Are you talking about people who do not think that health professionals should have to provide services that their religion prohibits?

No, healthcare professionals who refuse to provide services to citizens they don't like or approve of...

[canadiantdi]

Originally Posted by Okotokian

No, healthcare professionals who refuse to provide services to citizens they don't like or approve of...

Why should someone be forced to do something that their religion prohibits? I don't think the idea is to let doctors not treat blacks because they don't like them.