China oil company CNOOC buys Nexin 15.1 Billion

[hal53]

Originally Posted by The Elkster

Its one thing to sell to a country playing by the same rules. Its quite another to sell to a country that stands against the very thing all you hardcore Cons are so against. SMRT! Hypocrites

So... I will ask again...who are the foreign interests investing in the oil sands?????

[BCman]

Originally Posted by hal53

Nice Harper slam from our resident NDP'er from BC,

LOL , no Im not a NDP'er . I aint a Liberal, I aint a Conservative, I aint NDP, I aint "Green" party, Im just independent.

The Liberal are fake Libs, the Conservatives are fake conservatives.

[The Elkster]

Originally Posted by hal53

So... I will ask again...who are the foreign interests investing in the oil sands?????

And I will ask again. How do you justify selling to a commie country you so hate?

[hal53]

Originally Posted by The Elkster

And I will ask again. How do you justify selling to a commie country you so hate?

do you think Nexen is a Canadian company??????

[Backbay]

Really not happy about it. It'll be an investment that pays off handsomely in time. I'm a free market guy. but I don't like the garage sale we've held on our resources. Gotta be a better way.

[hal53]

Originally Posted by Backbay

Really not happy about it. It'll be an investment that pays off handsomely in time. I'm a free market guy. but I don't like the garage sale we've held on our resources. Gotta be a better way.

I'm with ya, but I don't think I would call it a garge sale. It is huge dollars to extract that resource over a long term payback....not many companies can stomach that.....

[The Elkster]

Its got some american roots and interests around the world. The point is moot. Canada has a big say in whether or not we support this deal and send a message to China. People here beak on all the time about commie this and socialist that. Then are presented with a chance to put their money where their mouth is then all of a sudden money flows in a way that will affect them and they find a way to justify sitting on their hands. Very telling

[Backbay]

Originally Posted by hal53

I'm with ya, but I don't think I would call it a garge sale. It is huge dollars to extract that resource over a long term payback....not many companies can stomach that.....

I think what sticks in my craw goes back a while. Inco, Alcan, Falconbridge, Noranda, MacMillian Bloedell all went within a few years of each other, and I was dumbfounded at the fact that no one seemed to notice or care.

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by pophouseman

X2

Extracting canadian resources for $$ into the chinese goverments pockets??
Not good!


To remain economically viable and avoid the recessions that are going to sweep the globe sooner then later, we need to keep our resources to ourselves. Canada may be one of the few countries to avoid the next great depression, but we need to make smart moves and this is not one of them.

Most resources are owned by the government or Canadian citizens. There is already a strong proportion of foreign ownership that spends investment dollars to provide revenue to those provinces and people.

Not sure where I stand but Abu Dabi buying Northrock was a shock to them. US companies have problems up here as well. The Chinese bought Daylight so there are here in conventional and also in the Oil Sands. If anything China will have a hard time retaining staff if they act like a Chinese company...hence they tend to have a western President. Time will tell.

They are paying up big time and Nexen has a lot of international assets. About 70% of their production is offshore. Anyone crazy enough to pay 62% premium should be allowed some respect.

[Backbay]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

Most resources are owned by the government or Canadian citizens. There is already a strong proportion of foreign ownership that spends investment dollars to provide revenue to those provinces and people.

Not sure where I stand but Abu Dabi buying Northrock was a shock to them. US companies have problems up here as well. The Chinese bought Daylight so there are here in conventional and also in the Oil Sands. If anything China will have a hard time retaining staff if they act like a Chinese company...hence they tend to have a western President. Time will tell.

They are paying up big time and Nexen has a lot of international assets. About 70% of their production is offshore. Anyone crazy enough to pay 62% premium should be allowed some respect.

What I respect is the timing. Market has been crappy, the price was off the lows, but by no means historically expensive.

[The Elkster]

I think they are intelligent enough to realize that energy is power. Its given us pretty much everything we have today and barring a miracle we are going to need this depleting resource for years to come. $100-120/bbl seems expensive now but i don't think it will in future and obviously neither do they.

The difference between China and western economies is that they can plan longer term because they aren't beholden to some hedge/pension fund, ...Public companies here have to make next quarters results and that is pretty much all that is considered. So while we are busy blowing our brains out short term they are planning for 10-20-30 years down the line.

I have seen so many stupid decisions made by public companies that it blows the mind. Shale gas boom for one...nothing like seeing companies driving themselves into the ground to pump out valuable energy at bargain basement prices! What a SMRT business plan. Short term thinking will bode well for the short term and that is about it...'nuff said.

[hal53]

Originally Posted by Backbay

What I respect is the timing. Market has been crappy, the price was off the lows, but by no means historically expensive.

...and 1 more slight shift of the financial community moving to Calgary.....

[The Elkster]

Originally Posted by The Elkster

And I will ask again. How do you justify selling to a commie country you so hate?

And I will ask once more...hal et al you there? Not one comment from Rocky7 also. I'm shocked. Where are these free market supporters. Could it be that it isn't that simple?

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by Backbay

What I respect is the timing. Market has been crappy, the price was off the lows, but by no means historically expensive.

Based upon price valuations...3-6 times cash flow...we are low for sure. To change that...natural gas prices need to go up.

Seeing that Nexen is not a Canadian owned company...it is a public company based in Canada with many international investors and assets...do I really care. Should I care. I have not seen any argument as to why we should care.

Suncor or Encana or Husky would be a different scenario based upon their asset locations.

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by The Elkster

The difference between China and western economies is that they can plan longer term because they aren't beholden to some hedge/pension fund, ...Public companies here have to make next quarters results and that is pretty much all that is considered. So while we are busy blowing our brains out short term they are planning for 10-20-30 years down the line. .

Agreed.

China is seeing the game through binoculars and a spotting scope. North American companies just look to the next public quarter or at most 1, 2 or 5 year outlook.

[hal53]

Originally Posted by The Elkster

And I will ask once more...hal et al you there? Not one comment from Rocky7 also. I'm shocked. Where are these free market supporters. Could it be that it isn't that simple?

YOU...have no choice to whom the shareholders decide to sell their shares to, if you bought a truck and 3 years later you were going to sell it for a decent dollar, how would you feel if the Gov't. said NOPE!!!...can't sell it to that guy.....it's called free enterprise....for the most part as was posted above they infuse the cash, install a "CEO"...and carry on, business as usual, you have a problem with the system?, write a couple million letters to each and every shareholder...who will profit nicely from this....see what they think...is it right??...dunno.... is it my right to insist the Gov't. scrap this deal???... I guess....but it ain't going to happen.

[The Elkster]

No YOU as a Canadian have an opportunity to take a stand against China's ways and support the gov't in killing this. There is every opportunity to kill this deal. That is a choice that you have. If you CHOOSE to be led around by free market ideals to the detriment of your personal ideals then that is YOUR choice not fate. No excuses

Its telling how quiet the neo-cons have been on this...

[Backbay]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher View Post
"Most resources are owned by the government or Canadian citizens. There is already a strong proportion of foreign ownership that spends investment dollars to provide revenue to those provinces and people."

I'll try to check, but I'm pretty sure less than half the revenues derived from the resource sector in Canada are now owned by Canadians.
If we had a huge manufacturing base that added value to resource extraction, that would be one thing, but we don't. We've always defaulted to digging stuff out of the ground, or chopping down trees, and selling it off. The path this country on does not indicate a successful business model.

[pikergolf]

Originally Posted by hal53

YOU...have no choice to whom the shareholders decide to sell their shares to, if you bought a truck and 3 years later you were going to sell it for a decent dollar, how would you feel if the Gov't. said NOPE!!!...can't sell it to that guy.....it's called free enterprise....for the most part as was posted above they infuse the cash, install a "CEO"...and carry on, business as usual, you have a problem with the system?, write a couple million letters to each and every shareholder...who will profit nicely from this....see what they think...is it right??...dunno.... is it my right to insist the Gov't. scrap this deal???... I guess....but it ain't going to happen.

The Gov. mandate is to look after the best interests of Canadians, this is not it. I said years ago, we would rue the day we crawled into bed with the Chinese, all for the greed of money. They aim to rule the world and it looks like the figured out the way foreward and we are happy to help them out, Good thing we have a soft spot for Chinese food.

[hal53]

Originally Posted by Backbay

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher View Post
"Most resources are owned by the government or Canadian citizens. There is already a strong proportion of foreign ownership that spends investment dollars to provide revenue to those provinces and people."

I'll try to check, but I'm pretty sure less than half the revenues derived from the resource sector in Canada are now owned by Canadians.
If we had a huge manufacturing base that added value to resource extraction, that would be one thing, but we don't. We've always defaulted to digging stuff out of the ground, or chopping down trees, and selling it off. The path this country on does not indicate a successful business model.

Because the mostly Ont. based manufacturing sector has based itself on the 65 cent dollar, thusly when the American dollar retreated to ours (not the other way), the manufacturing sector was looking at a 35% disparity.....but I guess Mulcair can'r figure out that same thing hit the oil patch, the only difference is, and I'll get flamed for this is, one word ,Unions....they wrecked the entire North American economy, but precious few will admit it....

[The Elkster]

Hal and how much are you making and what are your benefits? You think thats there purely because of charity or your unique and exceptional hard work. Hahaha Think again. You just happen to be in the most profitable industry out there (as am I) and these companies don't have to stress over wages because they do so well that wages are a smaller part of their equation and necessary to make the big profit. PERIOD Don't get too deluded with a perception of personal grandure. I should add that if you want proof of that just look at the cream of the crop that is making big dollars in the oilsands today. Irreplacable for sure!

And if your inclined to say "just suck if up and get a better job". You might want to keep in mind that it is statistically impossible for everyone to be in our boat no matter how hard they all try. The world only needs so many bankers and oilmen. It also needs the cleaners, the servers, the breadmakers, the manufacturers, the farmers or it'd fail miserably. Many of those trades work darn hard for our benefit without nearly the benefits. Don't they deserve a decent shake.

You would think some of the religious guys here would support that but then that may undermine their personal stature

[hal53]

Originally Posted by The Elkster

Hal and how much are you making and what are your benefits? You think thats there purely because of charity or your unique and exceptional hard work. Hahaha Think again. You just happen to be in the most profitable industry out there (as am I) and these companies don't have to stress over wages because they do so well that wages are a smaller part of their equation and necessary to make the big profit. PERIOD Don't get too deluded with a perception of personal grandure.

And if your inclined to say "just suck if up and get a better job". You might want to keep in mind that it is statistically impossible for everyone to be in our boat no matter how hard they all try. The world only needs so many bankers and oilmen. It also needs the cleaners, the servers, the breadmakers, the manufacturers, the farmers or it'd fail miserably. Many of those trades work darn hard for our benefit without nearly the benefits. Don't they deserve a decent shake.me of the religious guys here would support that but then that may undermine their personal stature

would like to see your benefit package if you are self-employed, also the interest rate on any loans you may need, because you are self-employed.....

[greylynx]

Originally Posted by hal53

How much of the Oilsands are owned by foreign interests now????....when you come up with that answer, we will continue this conversation......and do you and your family shop at Wal-Mart????

Well done Hal. Well done.

[The Elkster]

Originally Posted by greylynx

Well done Hal. Well done.

And not a word of concern on taking a stand against a commie country you are so against. Telling...

Its hard to believe that on a conservative based board that there isn't pages of outrage over a China getting a bigger foothold and not a word from Rocky7. It speaks to just how strong the almight dollar talks and the degree to which we are willing to sell out personal beliefs for a buck.

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by Backbay

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher View Post
"Most resources are owned by the government or Canadian citizens. There is already a strong proportion of foreign ownership that spends investment dollars to provide revenue to those provinces and people."

I'll try to check, but I'm pretty sure less than half the revenues derived from the resource sector in Canada are now owned by Canadians.
If we had a huge manufacturing base that added value to resource extraction, that would be one thing, but we don't. We've always defaulted to digging stuff out of the ground, or chopping down trees, and selling it off. The path this country on does not indicate a successful business model.

Most of the lands mineral and oil and gas rights are owned by the government and lease them out to individuals/companies to explore and produce. Freehold rights are usually acquired through homesteader rights but were less common as you move westward. Some lands were set aside for railroad rights as payment for building across the country. Those are mostly owned by Encana...and a few other Canadian Oil Company. Imperial does own some also.

I just want to be sure when we talk about "owning" the resources that it is clear that owning and leasing and paying for the exploration and development are vastly different concepts. Albertans for instance don't pay the cost of drilling wells...but they get the jobs, taxes and royalty revenue from them at no risk. Same goes for mineral rights...diamond mines, many coal mines although some companies own the coal freehold rights.


Nexen does not own a lot of mineral rights in Alberta although they likely have some if I recall...just not significant. The bulk is Crown, freehold or international.

Plus in the sense of the argument about control of resources...any output can at some point in time be stopped if political necessity required it...as in shortages etc. Currently...there is obviously a glut of oil and gas on the market as reflected in the commodity prices.

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by The Elkster

And not a word of concern on taking a stand against a commie country you are so against. Telling...

Its hard to believe that on a conservative based board that there isn't pages of outrage over a China getting a bigger foothold and not a word from Rocky7. It speaks to just how strong the almight dollar talks and the degree to which we are willing to sell out personal beliefs for a buck.

A bigger foothold in what...Nexen is hardly a major player in Canada.

[hal53]

Originally Posted by The Elkster

And not a word of concern on taking a stand against a commie country you are so against. Telling...

are you really so dumb as to think their their $$$$ aren't here yet????.....like I said , don't go running to to the Gov't., go to the AGM and tell the board of directors what you think.....typical, one thread you want the Gov. out of your life, the next over a topic that you are seriously shorthof knowledge on, you want the same Gov't. to jump in.????????? with 20% of their holdings in Canada, but their head office here....the deal will be done.....

[catnthehat]

Rocky i s out of town on vacation- Alaska IIRC.
If he is like me he likely won't have a computer handy!
Cat

[The Elkster]

Originally Posted by hal53

would like to see your benefit package if you are self-employed, also the interest rate on any loans you may need, because you are self-employed.....

I work outright for an oil company and I'm proud of it. Yet as hard as I worked to get here I see how lucky I am. From my upbringing I know the hardships that other hard working people face. The oil industry is a bubble many people are just too far inside to realize it.

Its not about the dollars its about the message. Everyone here spouts off about how evil commie crud is yet we have a chance to send some kind of message but because it risks their bottom line they crawl in a hole. Honestly I expected more.

[hal53]

Originally Posted by The Elkster

I work outright for an oil company and I'm proud of it. Yet as hard as I worked to get here I see how lucky I am. From my upbringing I know the hardships that other hard working people face. The oil industry is a bubble many people are just too far inside to realize it.

oh Sheesh!!!!...silly me! after 37 years in the patch, living and working thru the NEP and 6 different bust cycles, I forgot what the industry was like, my apologies that I thought I was living in a bubble, the Oil Co. you work for pay your benefits?????.....I can't get them.......