How was this senior treated? - Page 2

pophouseman · #31 07-23-2012, 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slivers86

This senior was ripped off, and these guys should be prosecuted.

Please explain how this senior was ripped off?
Maybe if she got two more quotes they would all be in the ballpark. We don't know that.

New Hunter Okotoks · #32 07-24-2012, 12:12 AM

Maybe they quoted like auto mechanics do when they get the job done far sooner than the book time. "That is the time it might take a novice mechanic with hand tools..."

The 16 hours is what it might have taken if they used a 1/2 inch brush instead of a sprayer.

Big Sky · #33 07-24-2012, 01:03 AM

I'd contact University First Class and explain the situation. The franchise manager is in his first year and would have little experience in quoting a price for a job. From what you say, he wasn't even sure if the job would take one day or two. If someone told me a job would take a day or 2, I would ask that they be more accurate so that I could determine how reasonable the estimate is, but like you say, seniors tend to be more trusting. $700 for 32 man-hours ( 2 workers for 2 days ) would seem pretty reasonable considering that the work is done by university students, but I think that $700 for 8 man-hours is ridiculous. I can understand building in some flexibility when making a quote, but this guy missed the mark by 24 man-hours on a small job and to me that is unacceptable. The head office needs to be aware of this. And for sure, I'd be contacting the franchise owner and ask for an explanation and a partial refund.

I also have an elderly parent and know that the situation can be challenging. They want to maintain their independence but at times make decisions that end up costing them. In this case it would seem that your mom did not know what would be a reasonable amount of time to do the work and accepted the first quote. Perhaps it's time to talk to her about involving you and other family members when she has to hire contractors or make financial decisions. For sure, multiple quotes are a good idea and may have helped in this situation.

CaberTosser · #34 07-24-2012, 07:08 AM

I recall one clients home that I was renovating a bathroom at; both my client and their immediate neighbor were having their homes painted. My client was using College Pro, while the neighbor used career professionals instead of summer students. I think the other outfit may have been Ram Services, but this was easily 16 years ago. What was immediately apparent was the quality of work. The professionals started about 2-3 days ahead of the college painters, which wound up being unfortunate; as if they started a few days later they'd not have had to re-do their work. Their superior prep work was obvious, the end result looked much cleaner and more professional. It looked worse however after the college painters covered in in lots of overspray from their half-assed hack job net door. The two homes seen by side created a picture worth a thousand words.

Since that incident I always considered those 'college this' or 'student that' outfits an insult to real professionals. While you get what you pay for is often a common theme, if these guys are charging what the real pro's do it's a crime. Why don't they operate under a more accurate name like 'amateur painting' or 'not my intended career coatings'?

Mekanik · #35 07-24-2012, 07:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greylynx

Have you people ever seen the book on auto repairs?

Same thing. Ten minute job billed by the book as 1.5 hours.

Nothing new.

And some are 1.5 hour jobs billed at ten minutes. Had three yesterday. Not fun.

Eight hour job, two guys on it, four hours each, that math holds up. Inspect the quality of the work: if it's good, don't worry about it. If it's bad, they need to come back and finish the job right.

Next time, multiple quotes.

Sundancefisher · #36 07-24-2012, 07:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pophouseman

So your saying no responsible buisness should quote a customer a price for a job. And then complete said job and charge the quoted price? I don't understand what your point is. If she was overquoted a simple second quote would have solved that problem.

The work was done...I have not seen the quality. The quote stated 16-32 hours of labour included...but only took 8.

If you were quoted a job for a project and it took half the materials...but the job was done...is that fair.

You and I would of both had 3 or 4 quotes. Many seniors don't. Is it fair to be seen as taking advantage of that. Is it legal...maybe...is is ethical?

Sundancefisher · #37 07-24-2012, 07:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FishingMOM

I think the question should be.......

Was the quote they given in writing?
Was it for time and materials?
Example 16 hours @ $x/hr + 27 gallons of paint at $x per gallon?

Or was it just a flat quote?
example.
painting of Rooms x, y, z for a set price of $$|XX

If it was a time and material quote then they over charged her.
If it was a flat rate quote then, I would think buyer beware.

Time and materials were quoted in the price...but likely not broken down to $/hr.

Sundancefisher · #38 07-24-2012, 07:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Sky

I'd contact University First Class and explain the situation. The franchise manager is in his first year and would have little experience in quoting a price for a job. From what you say, he wasn't even sure if the job would take one day or two. If someone told me a job would take a day or 2, I would ask that they be more accurate so that I could determine how reasonable the estimate is, but like you say, seniors tend to be more trusting. $700 for 32 man-hours ( 2 workers for 2 days ) would seem pretty reasonable considering that the work is done by university students, but I think that $700 for 8 man-hours is ridiculous. I can understand building in some flexibility when making a quote, but this guy missed the mark by 24 man-hours on a small job and to me that is unacceptable. The head office needs to be aware of this. And for sure, I'd be contacting the franchise owner and ask for an explanation and a partial refund.

I also have an elderly parent and know that the situation can be challenging. They want to maintain their independence but at times make decisions that end up costing them. In this case it would seem that your mom did not know what would be a reasonable amount of time to do the work and accepted the first quote. Perhaps it's time to talk to her about involving you and other family members when she has to hire contractors or make financial decisions. For sure, multiple quotes are a good idea and may have helped in this situation.

It was $1400 for 8 man hours...not $700. I have attempted to contact him to find out his side. It could just be an honest misunderstanding on his part.

pophouseman · #39 07-24-2012, 07:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

The work was done...I have not seen the quality. The quote stated 16-32 hours of labour included...but only took 8.

If you were quoted a job for a project and it took half the materials...but the job was done...is that fair.

You and I would of both had 3 or 4 quotes. Many seniors don't. Is it fair to be seen as taking advantage of that. Is it legal...maybe...is is ethical?

I still don't understand why the amount of time it took to get the job done should change the price. It's called piece-work.

Piece work (or piecework) is any type of employment in which a worker is paid a fixed piece rate for each unit produced or action performed[1] regardless of time. Piece work is a form of performance-related pay.

Who Da Fisherman · #40 07-24-2012, 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

The work was done...I have not seen the quality. The quote stated 16-32 hours of labour included...but only took 8.

If you were quoted a job for a project and it took half the materials...but the job was done...is that fair.

You and I would of both had 3 or 4 quotes. Many seniors don't. Is it fair to be seen as taking advantage of that. Is it legal...maybe...is is ethical?

[QUOTE=pophouseman;1533334]I still don't understand why the amount of time it took to get the job done should change the price. It's called piece-work.

From what I see they quoted a window of hrs. Review the work and if you are satisfied and meets standards then it is done, if it is below standards they still have a long way to go with 24 hours left on the quote. Without seeing the full quote or workmanship this is all guess work.

Okotokian · #41 07-24-2012, 08:39 AM

If you get quoted a per hour rate, that's what you pay, regardless of how long it takes. If you get quoted a final amount, that's what you pay, whether the job takes half the time or twice the time. Was the contract open-ended or fixed price? Would she have paid more if it took three days?

As it hasn't really been discussed I'm assuming you are satisfied with the work itself. If not, have them back to fix it.

The long term solution is to tell your mother that she is to contact YOU whenever she wants work done around teh home and YOU will arrange it. But I guess you know that now.

Mekanik · #42 07-24-2012, 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

You and I would of both had 3 or 4 quotes. Many seniors don't. Is it fair to be seen as taking advantage of that. Is it legal...maybe...is is ethical?

that's called doing your homework. I don't understand why more people wouldn't call around.

Two months ago I did a clutch for 13 hours. Another shop down the road was charging him 20 hours labour and the reason we got the job was that the shop made him source his own parts too. He asked me if it was reasonable: I checked the labour time, told him what our quote was and he wouldn't have to deliver parts as we'd take care of it; he went away happy.

Always always always get at least two quotes and go with the one that seems the most reliable. Even if that's not me. They quoted what they wanted for the job, it got agreed to. They did the job. They got paid what was agreed upon. That is ethical.

Sundancefisher · #43 07-24-2012, 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pophouseman

I still don't understand why the amount of time it took to get the job done should change the price. It's called piece-work.

Piece work (or piecework) is any type of employment in which a worker is paid a fixed piece rate for each unit produced or action performed[1] regardless of time. Piece work is a form of performance-related pay.

Seems like the question is...can it be misleading to someone in this instance...where they did not get additional quotes.

It is an interesting scenario. I can sense when I am getting a bad quote...and that is why you get more than 1 for sure. No one disputes that is the wise thing to do.

pophouseman · #44 07-24-2012, 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

Seems like the question is...can it be misleading to someone in this instance

No, the price quoted equaled the price paid. There is no misleading, no dishonesty, no bad buisness practice

if they are consistantly the highest priced outfit in town (unless they are by far the best at what they do) then they will go bankrupt because no one hires them. they told her $1400, they finished the work as discussed and they charged her $1400. Young, old, black, white, short, tall, skinny or fat that sounds like a fair deal to me.

DarkAisling · #45 07-24-2012, 09:35 AM

They shouldn't have charged her the GST, as she booked immediately.

However, the time it takes to do a job depends on the person doing it. Not everyone works the same speed.

For example, hubby can easily hammer in 300 square feet of hardwood in a day. #1 son is struggling to get in 100 square feet of hardwood a day. They both do an excellent job, but hubby is 3x faster than #1 son. Quotes are based on the cost per square foot. Hubby could advise a home owner that something will take five days (based on #1 son's speed alone), but it could be done in two days if hubby was doing it.

In the end . . . if they did the work that was quoted, and the amount of coverage was quoted correctly, and the work was well done, then the price she paid was fair (excepting the GST).

Most people are happy when construction/renovation crews are out of their hair more quickly then expected.

Sundancefisher · #46 07-24-2012, 10:45 AM

Thanks everyone.

Good comments from everyone all round and good things to think about.

Cheers

Okotokian · #47 07-24-2012, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

Thanks everyone.

Good comments from everyone all round and good things to think about.

Cheers

Bottom line... with regard to your mom, I don't think she was treated too badly. Now if it were my mom, I'd be livid. LOL

I get completely where you are coming from.

RumRugby · #48 07-24-2012, 11:20 AM

If she was quoted for the job in writing with the stipulation that she would receive 5% (gst) discount for booking within a certain time frame, and she accepted the terms of the agreement for the service work, which were performed within the perimeters of the contract, then that is what she will have to pay. I do believe they are even allowed to be up to 10% over the quote. I don't think they should be penalized for working quickly/efficiently unless the quality of work suffered as a result.

The only problem that I can see is she did not make an educated buying decision and is blaming someone else as a result. She was quoted for the job, the job got done in a timely manner, quality tbd, as long as the price was within 10% of the estimate there shouldn't be an issue imo.

Sundancefisher · #49 07-24-2012, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Okotokian

Bottom line... with regard to your mom, I don't think she was treated too badly. Now if it were my mom, I'd be livid. LOL

I get completely where you are coming from.

Not my mom...helping out another person's mom however.

SHORTMAG · #50 07-24-2012, 05:14 PM

I'd be questioning the GST portion only...esp if she booked right away as quoted. Perhaps it was an honest mistake....BUTTTT......If 1400.00 bucks was quoted for a GOOD job....and she got a GOOD job...so be it. IMHO anyways.

Sundancefisher · #51 07-24-2012, 06:31 PM

[QUOTE=Who Da Fisherman;1533377]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pophouseman

Review the work and if you are satisfied and meets standards then it is done, if it is below standards they still have a long way to go with 24 hours left on the quote. Without seeing the full quote or workmanship this is all guess work.

They did not remove the outlet and light face plates but painted around them. They also did not tape the baseboards so there is paint on them.

Sigh...hopefully she let's me deal with these things from here on.

They need a "Senior Approved" list of reputable service suppliers

canadiantdi · #52 07-24-2012, 06:42 PM

[QUOTE=Sundancefisher;1534138]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Who Da Fisherman

They did not remove the outlet and light face plates but painted around them. They also did not tape the baseboards so there is paint on them.

Sigh...hopefully she let's me deal with these things from here on.

They need a "Senior Approved" list of reputable service suppliers

Epic fail. No wonder it only took 4 hours haha.. they probably figured the elderly lady wouldn't notice or care or be able to do anything about it.

Jorg · #53 07-24-2012, 07:06 PM

[QUOTE=canadiantdi;1534161]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

Epic fail. No wonder it only took 4 hours haha.. they probably figured the elderly lady wouldn't notice or care or be able to do anything about it.

Yup that's what they call a splash job.

Who Da Fisherman · #54 07-24-2012, 07:33 PM

[QUOTE=Sundancefisher;1534138]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Who Da Fisherman

They did not remove the outlet and light face plates but painted around them. They also did not tape the baseboards so there is paint on them.

Sigh...hopefully she let's me deal with these things from here on.

They need a "Senior Approved" list of reputable service suppliers

That is unfortunate, keep us informed as to how you make out with them. If you like I'll deal with them, this is one part of my job that i like. My wife says "Use Your Work Voice".

Sundancefisher · #55 07-25-2012, 07:39 PM

Resolution. Some people like to know how things end...so here it is.

Guy called me back...gotta give him respect for that as a businessman.

He is sticking by his quoted price so not refunding. As this agrees with some opinions in this thread...with reflection there is a sense of buyer beware and without other quotes I can not fault him for that position. Something extra back would of been a nice gesture but I don't consider this an issue now.

However they are refunding the agreed upon GST discount. Fair enough.

He also said if there is workmanship issues...he will touch it up. Fair enough. I will check into that. He said the guys he had there were 30 years of experience...I will review the work and see if that makes any sense.

So overall...when someone calls back after a concern...I give them extra marks.

I would say I am satisfied at this point.

Sun

Who Da Fisherman · #56 07-25-2012, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

Resolution. Some people like to know how things end...so here it is.

Guy called me back...gotta give him respect for that as a businessman.

He is sticking by his quoted price so not refunding. As this agrees with some opinions in this thread...with reflection there is a sense of buyer beware and without other quotes I can not fault him for that position. Something extra back would of been a nice gesture but I don't consider this an issue now.

However they are refunding the agreed upon GST discount. Fair enough.

He also said if there is workmanship issues...he will touch it up. Fair enough. I will check into that. He said the guys he had there were 30 years of experience...I will review the work and see if that makes any sense.

So overall...when someone calls back after a concern...I give them extra marks.

I would say I am satisfied at this point.

Sun

Call back great.
Refund for what was agreed to, they should.
Holding to his quote and standing behind his workmanship:
A fully qualified painter with 30yrs under his belt does not paint around switch and plug plates (unprofessional), if it is a light paint they can touch it up but if it is in the darker shades the whole wall from corner to corner will need to be done.
If you have seen the work and accept it for being complete, then case closed.
WDF

Jorg · #57 07-25-2012, 09:50 PM

A painter with thirty years experience also doesn't slop paint on baseboards.