Y'all think this ram is legal or not

[OL_JR]

Originally Posted by OldRussian

OL_JR search for the 'new sheep jig' thread. Later on in that thread I post in detail of the issues I had with it. PM me if you want further details. In short, where they measure and what is put forth as a standard are different things.

It makes sense now just had a blonde moment and I recall that thread. The anterior point of the eye is what is in question and agree that it's kind of a crappy deal asking hunters to bring in a caped out skull for judgement when in the field that is impossible to judge. There is always the argument that "well don't shoot a little ram" but on the other hand if I'm looking at an 11 year old broomed off bugger that is close to the line there should be a hard line to be judged out in the field. Not guessing it's going to be legal once the cape comes off.

A ram can gain some with base when it is caped out as there is usually enough under the hide to gain some favour that would be lost measuring to the edge of the eye socket but that is not always the case. I know an old acquaintance that had a ram pulled betting on the extra horn under the hair even before this new jig thing came into play. That particular ram didn't hide much.

[WinefredCommander]

Dink.

[OldRussian]

OL_JR I think the guys that dismiss shooting squeakers due to "well don't shoot a little ram" are bypassing the real issue at hand. There is a clear and obvious gap in what the regulations set as a standard and what is expected during registration.

Obviously everyone wants to shoot a cranker animal of any species. When a ram is legal according to the regs and deemed short at check-in due to a different standard there is a problem. I don't have a problem with where they measure with the jig, my gripe is that they don't clearly publish where they are measuring with it.

It was incredibly stressful bringing my ram in and having it taken. I thought for sure it was legal from the time I first saw the sheep to the time I brought it in. Because the animal was legal according to what I studied in the regs. On top of all this i wasn't charged. I am incredibly grateful that I wrote to the Minister of the Environment and got my ram back, like many others. Since then I have been fairly vocal of the matter in hopes of helping other hunters avoid the heartache.

If a legal sheep isn't big enough to be shot then the standard should be changed to a larger size. I don't get why people rag on guys that shoot Rams that are 'just legal'. Either it is or it isn't. And if you can legally kill the animal it is all good no matter if it is a Booner or a freshly minted legal ram.

[Stinky Coyote]

Fair point Sir, I just read your horror story, so glad to see the outcome went your way, looked like a great ram to me.

Also, agree with your point, I have three ewes now and everyone of them is a trophy to me. And they don’t need to be that at all, they just need to be legal and put in the freezer. While I’d rather choose a darker caped more mature ram, it would be very hard to walk away from legal when you know it, like I said...I love my ewes just about as much as my ram. My ram similar to yours. Legal is legal.

[wildwoods]

Originally Posted by Stinky Coyote

Fair point Sir, I just read your horror story, so glad to see the outcome went your way, looked like a great ram to me.

Also, agree with your point, I have three ewes now and everyone of them is a trophy to me. And they don’t need to be that at all, they just need to be legal and put in the freezer. While I’d rather choose a darker caped more mature ram, it would be very hard to walk away from legal when you know it, like I said...I love my ewes just about as much as my ram. My ram similar to yours. Legal is legal.

I think a lot of the time, the guys saying “don’t shoot a squeaker” comes from guys who either A) have shot a squeaker or B) have a good ram on the wall already

Easy to criticize once the pressures off. And yes there is pressure to kill a ram. You invest thousands of dollars, hundreds of Kms and many days to get the job done. There’s nothing like the feeling of peeling that tag

[Bushrat]

No different than keeping a short walleye except that you can measure the fish and let it go. Can't do that with a dead animal. I go fishing without a measuring tape and when I catch one it has to obviously be legal by a good measure or it gets thrown back even though its probably legal by several inches. Since sheep can't be measured before shooting then it should be darn obvious that it is well beyond legal before pulling the trigger. Shooting squeakers is asking for trouble. If you have had a good look at it and your still on the fence as to whether to shoot or not then you should pass on it. Sheep are one of the hardest of animals to judge and often suffer a lot of horn shrinkage once they hit the ground. Unfortunately that's why too many of them are shot and left to rot right where they fell.

[rem338win]

Originally Posted by wildwoods

I think a lot of the time, the guys saying “don’t shoot a squeaker” comes from guys who either A) have shot a squeaker or B) have a good ram on the wall already

Easy to criticize once the pressures off. And yes there is pressure to kill a ram. You invest thousands of dollars, hundreds of Kms and many days to get the job done. There’s nothing like the feeling of peeling that tag

Don't shoot a squeaker.

Ive passed on anything that wasn't for sure and have zero regrets. Still no rams on the wall because I passed or the animal and the mountain beat me.

Shooting these young rams is what's going to put us into a limited opportunity hunt here soon if folks don't wake up. Way too many short rams shot and left.

[MountainTi]

Originally Posted by wildwoods

I think a lot of the time, the guys saying “don’t shoot a squeaker” comes from guys who either A) have shot a squeaker or B) have a good ram on the wall already

Easy to criticize once the pressures off. And yes there is pressure to kill a ram. You invest thousands of dollars, hundreds of Kms and many days to get the job done. There’s nothing like the feeling of peeling that tag

Interesting. Perhaps that explains why there are short (illegal) rams shot every year.

[wildwoods]

Originally Posted by MountainTi

Interesting. Perhaps that explains why there are short (illegal) rams shot every year.

I don’t see what’s so interesting about that. I worked my butt off to shoot my first one. I would say any normal guy hunting sheep dearly wants to kill one.
I did a lot of homework and put on a lot of miles. That was a tag I really wanted to fold. That is not to say I didn’t appreciate all of the aspects of that hunt as well as amazing scenery and the camaraderie. But the bottom line is I hunt to kill what I’m after.

I sat on my ram, who is clear as day legal- for 2.5 hrs at 55 yards agonizing over it. I wasn’t taking any chances. I don’t advocate anyone to shoot and hope for the best. But I also don’t despise a guy who kills a squeaker who knew 100% he was legal

[wildwoods]

Originally Posted by rem338win

Don't shoot a squeaker.

Ive passed on anything that wasn't for sure and have zero regrets. Still no rams on the wall because I passed or the animal and the mountain beat me.

Shooting these young rams is what's going to put us into a limited opportunity hunt here soon if folks don't wake up. Way too many short rams shot and left.

That’s a pretty strong statement.

Are there? I’m legit asking. How do we know?

I will say that even one shot and left is one too many though

[rem338win]

Talk to F&W and Conservation when you get a chance. When I spoke to the CO I ran ran into beginning of October last year there were 3 shot short and left in 404 alone. Now it's a pressured unit, but.....it gives you an idea of numbers.

And I don't care how hard people work for it. I've worked hard for it. You aren't owed anything, you don't have rights to it. You're there for the experience and so is everyone else. If that experience is ruined because you didn't get to pull the trigger take up waterfowling or gopher shooting. Entitlement doesn't belong here and is the reason we will lose our amazing over the counter tags for a resource this unique.

Having a midge past legal squeaker on the wall as a symbol of accomplishment isn't greater than the memories and enjoyment of the hunt itself.

[wildwoods]

Originally Posted by rem338win

Talk to F&W and Conservation when you get a chance. When I spoke to the CO I ran ran into beginning of October last year there were 3 shot short and left in 404 alone. Now it's a pressured unit, but.....it gives you an idea of numbers.

And I don't care how hard people work for it. I've worked hard for it. You aren't owed anything, you don't have rights to it. You're there for the experience and so is everyone else. If that experience is ruined because you didn't get to pull the trigger take up waterfowling or gopher shooting. Entitlement doesn't belong here and is the reason we will lose our amazing over the counter tags for a resource this unique.

Having a midge past legal squeaker on the wall as a symbol of accomplishment isn't greater than the memories and enjoyment of the hunt itself.

I'm pretty good at putting words in my own mouth. I am not owed anything nor claimed to be. When I hunt, I've come to expect success as a result of hard work and homework. Filling tags doesn't always happen and I am more than happy with the experiences that come with the full package. I pass on my fair share of game too, reveling in the experience.

I'm just tired of guys slamming each other for shooting legal rams. If it's legal and you know it is 100%, I say congrats and good job!

[6.5 shooter]

Some of my best hunting memories are of animals I have passed .

If in doubt, don't pout, move on. The memory will last longer.

[JoshT]

My opinion that ram is too close to call it for sure! The picture is so grainy you can't even make out the eye for sure.

I sat on a ram for an hour last year at 40 yards that I eventually walked away from. I know I made the right decision. I tried relocating that ram this year and couldn't find it. Makes me wonder if someone else ended up shooting it later in the season or if it just moved to a different range.
(If the photo works that's the ram I passed)


Would be interesting to speak with a F&W biologist and hear how many rams come in that turn out to be short and how many are found in the field. If you make the mistake and shoot a short ram. Own up to it and pack that thing off the mountain and turn it in. It's the least any of could do after taking that animals life. At least that way it's not being left to waste.

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[Bushrat]

Originally Posted by JoshT

My opinion that ram is too close to call it for sure! The picture is so grainy you can't even make out the eye for sure.

I sat on a ram for an hour last year at 40 yards that I eventually walked away from. I know I made the right decision. I tried relocating that ram this year and couldn't find it. Makes me wonder if someone else ended up shooting it later in the season or if it just moved to a different range.
(If the photo works that's the ram I passed)


Would be interesting to speak with a F&W biologist and hear how many rams come in that turn out to be short and how many are found in the field. If you make the mistake and shoot a short ram. Own up to it and pack that thing off the mountain and turn it in. It's the least any of could do after taking that animals life. At least that way it's not being left to waste.

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You did the right thing.

[Bearbreath]

This is the original uncropped picture.

[JoshT]

Originally Posted by Bushrat

You did the right thing.

Paid off in the end as I was able to get my first ram this year!

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[Bushrat]

Originally Posted by JoshT

Paid off in the end as I was able to get my first ram this year!

Sent from my EML-L09 using Tapatalk

Thats very cool, tell us the story!

[rem338win]

Originally Posted by wildwoods

I'm pretty good at putting words in my own mouth. I am not owed anything nor claimed to be. When I hunt, I've come to expect success as a result of hard work and homework. Filling tags doesn't always happen and I am more than happy with the experiences that come with the full package. I pass on my fair share of game too, reveling in the experience.

I'm just tired of guys slamming each other for shooting legal rams. If it's legal and you know it is 100%, I say congrats and good job!

Your words aren't mine and I didn't mean to imply that.

I'm just getting super tired of the crap attitude many seem to have about hunting these days. They paid $ so they're going to get theirs. They put boot leather down, so it's about time.

Don't take the emotion out of it, but the entitlement can hit the road. And that entitlement is what drives poaching period. I've got no time for that.

If it's so close you've got anxiety all the way to the measuring table, don't shoot it. Enjoy the fact you got there. Call yourself a conservationist for walking away.

[Stinky Coyote]

Originally Posted by Bearbreath

This is the original uncropped picture.

the bottom right one would be one to look at also, looks to be tipping up, may have had a little more lamb tip left?

[catnthehat]

I got a draw for archery in 410 in 1992 once in a lifetime chance for me . After a tough stalk on one about like that I turned it down .
Never regretted it one bit .
Cat