Vaccinations don't cause autism

[YYC338]

Originally Posted by bossmansteve

Ask your doctor where they get their recommendations from: if every doctor personally studied the latest research in vaccine science to form their own recommendation, or if it comes from a higher body.

How about if I just start off by asking you where you get your recommendations from? Have you personally studied the latest VALID research in vaccine science and have the proper scientific training and background to disseminate and evaluate what your eyes and ears are taking in?

[AndrewM]

Everyone who eats a pickle will eventually die. One must not eat pickles as you can’t prove that they don’t cause death!

Water causes autism. Everyone who has autism has drank water.

Hard to prove something exists that’s doesn’t exist but very easy to make up conclusions that you can’t prove false.

[fishpro]

On another note, I recently heard that there are is a higher proportion of people in research science who are on the autism spectrum, so if anything this means that autism causes vaccines.

[AndrewM]

Originally Posted by fishpro

On another note, I recently heard that there are is a higher proportion of people in research science who are on the autism spectrum, so if anything this means that autism causes vaccines.

Now that’s why the government wants people to have autism. So they can tax the vaccines they make!

[Okotok]

Originally Posted by YYC338

How about if I just start off by asking you where you get your recommendations from? Have you personally studied the latest VALID research in vaccine science and have the proper scientific training and background to disseminate and evaluate what your eyes and ears are taking in?

Pseudo_science. They walk among us unfortunately.

[bossmansteve]

Originally Posted by YYC338

How about if I just start off by asking you where you get your recommendations from? Have you personally studied the latest VALID research in vaccine science and have the proper scientific training and background to disseminate and evaluate what your eyes and ears are taking in?

I listen to both perspectives. I'm far from an expert in the field but I do read scientific papers, along with criticisms of them. I have a B.Sc. so I have basic education in understanding scientific papers.

I don't pretend to know the answer on autism or vaccine safety. For me, the questions without answer and tolerable risk of infectious disease to my children is enough to opt out. Where there's smoke there's usually fire, and I suspect we will find the answers to these questions sooner or later.

[Jayhad]

Good news, I Vacation all the time and contracting autism at my age would be a real change.

[Scott h]

Originally Posted by fishpro

On another note, I recently heard that there are is a higher proportion of people in research science who are on the autism spectrum, so if anything this means that autism causes vaccines.

That really doesn't surprise me. Over the years I've worked with MANY, MANY docs that really were brilliant but seemed......er...."a bit off" socially. Thank god we have a few people with big brains around.

[Scott h]

Originally Posted by raab

The real scary thing is making it mandatory for kids. If you don’t get them vaccinated, then social services will take them away. That’s a good way to start a civil war. We had a leader in the last provincial election running with a similar type of law in his platform(refused education instead of social services).

Good point. They should just separate the kids. Let those who choose to not vaccinate have their own school. Taught by teachers that have the same beliefs.

[Pathfinder76]

Heads need to be shaken.

One of THE biggest developments in the last 150 years that saved the most lives are vaccines. Food sanitation, and clean water are others.

We are so smart that we want to change that?

[YYC338]

Originally Posted by chuck

Heads need to be shaken.

One of THE biggest developments in the last 150 years that saved the most lives are vaccines. Food sanitation, and clean water are others.

We are so smart that we want to change that?

Yup, all those advancements have led to a dramatic increase in average life expectancy over the last 150 years. Tough to dispute that data, although those ages may have peaked in North America with the poor diet and sedentary lifestyle many have adopted.

Might as well outlaw vaccines too and get that rampant global population increase under control to save the planet

[NewGuard84]

Thankfully we live in an era of established scientific knowledge, where some things are now proven facts as opposed to opinions.

Perhaps it is also still up for debate whether the sun orbits the Earth?

This is the question I ask people who want to challenge established science.

[AndrewM]

Originally Posted by NewGuard84

Thankfully we live in an era of established scientific knowledge, where some things are now proven facts as opposed to opinions.

Perhaps it is also still up for debate whether the sun orbits the Earth?

This is the question I ask people who want to challenge established science.

Established science should still always be reviewed. People make mistakes and draw wrong conclusions all the time. I see no issue with evaluating if autism is caused by vaccinations. I do have an issue when there is no established science yet people are blindly following and risking other people's lives.

[NewGuard84]

Originally Posted by AndrewM

Established science should still always be reviewed. People make mistakes and draw wrong conclusions all the time. I see no issue with evaluating if autism is caused by vaccinations. I do have an issue when there is no established science yet people are blindly following and risking other people's lives.

I agree that a period of review is reasonable to challenge/verify/duplicate findings. That review/verification/duplication is how science is peer reviewed and vetted and becomes what I am calling "established."

Are you suggesting the review/duplication/verification on this issue is insufficient for the results to be "established"? That there have not been enough conclusions to reliably decide the consistent findings were not in error? How many duplicate studies are required?

Do we need to continue to review the question of the Earth's orbit around the sun? At some point, the repeated studies with the same results cannot be incorrect.

[AndrewM]

Originally Posted by NewGuard84

I agree that a period of review is reasonable to challenge/verify/duplicate findings. That review/verification/duplication is how science is peer reviewed and vetted and becomes what I am calling "established."

Are you suggesting the review/duplication/verification on this issue is insufficient for the results to be "established"? That there have not been enough conclusions to reliably decide the consistent findings were not in error? How many duplicate studies are required?

Do we need to continue to review the question of the Earth's orbit around the sun? At some point, the repeated studies with the same results cannot be incorrect.

You would have to read the thread to see my comments on this subject. I was just saying people can review the established science forever if they want. As you are aware science is based on theories rather than facts. Might be a waste of time/money but they are more than welcome to continually review the science.

[NewGuard84]

Originally Posted by AndrewM

You would have to read the thread to see my comments on this subject. I was just saying people can review the established science forever if they want. As you are aware science is based on theories rather than facts. Might be a waste of time/money but they are more than welcome to continually review the science.

I think we share similar views on the central issue and our discussion is on the value and implications of revisiting "established" science.

I agree that review is important and what is "established" must be a high threshold, based on duplicated studies, to know with reasonable certainty. Further review does not concern me so long as qualified people are doing the research, which is my issue.

I get suspicious when things we reasonably know (that are no longer debated among the qualified crowd) are revisited by pseudo-scientists or quacks who conveniently arrive at results that contradict the real science.

It sometimes muddies the waters in cases like this if there are "studies" to point to with differing results. That is where my Earth's orbit joke comes in: people still arrive at the conclusion the sun orbits the Earth, but how did they get there?

[bossmansteve]

Today we went to a pediatrician, a new one that we haven't seen before. She looked to be mid-30s. She asked about vaccination towards the end. I told her we doubted the safety of aluminum in vaccines. She said that aluminum and mercury haven't been used in vaccines since the olden days and are no longer used. I said no, I'm pretty sure that the majority of vaccines today use an aluminum adjuvant. She said there might be a trace amount of aluminum in vaccines, she wasn't sure, but there is aluminum in drinking water too. I said, well, injecting something into your muscle tissue is quite different from drinking it. She said these vaccines have been around for 30 years. I said yes, but their safety hasn't been established and some people theorize that aluminum in adjuvants can build up in brain tissue. She said she's not familiar with the latest research but she's confident they are very safe, and she gave us a pamphlet from the government's stance and linking to the government's website on it. I said, I know you're not an expert and we try to follow the research ourselves. We're just leery because I've seen a study showing aluminium build up from vaccination in brain tissue in rats. She said rates are different than humans and maybe humans have a better blood-brain barrier. I said yes, maybe, but we need studies to test that which I have not seen conducted.

If any of you believe that regular doctors have a clue about the details of vaccines and are not just channeling recommendations from higher authorities, then please probe your doctor next time you're there.

[Okotok]

Originally Posted by bossmansteve

Today we went to a pediatrician, a new one that we haven't seen before. She looked to be mid-30s. She asked about vaccination towards the end. I told her we doubted the safety of aluminum in vaccines. She said that aluminum and mercury haven't been used in vaccines since the olden days and are no longer used. I said no, I'm pretty sure that the majority of vaccines today use an aluminum adjuvant. She said there might be a trace amount of aluminum in vaccines, she wasn't sure, but there is aluminum in drinking water too. I said, well, injecting something into your muscle tissue is quite different from drinking it. She said these vaccines have been around for 30 years. I said yes, but their safety hasn't been established and some people theorize that aluminum in adjuvants can build up in brain tissue. She said she's not familiar with the latest research but she's confident they are very safe, and she gave us a pamphlet from the government's stance and linking to the government's website on it. I said, I know you're not an expert and we try to follow the research ourselves. We're just leery because I've seen a study showing aluminium build up from vaccination in brain tissue in rats. She said rates are different than humans and maybe humans have a better blood-brain barrier. I said yes, maybe, but we need studies to test that which I have not seen conducted.

If any of you believe that regular doctors have a clue about the details of vaccines and are not just channeling recommendations from higher authorities, then please probe your doctor next time you're there.

If you would have whipped your head around as you were leaving, chances are her arms were in an X shape in front of her. Just kidding, sort of.

[Scott h]

Originally Posted by bossmansteve

Today we went to a pediatrician, a new one that we haven't seen before. She looked to be mid-30s. She asked about vaccination towards the end. I told her we doubted the safety of aluminum in vaccines. She said that aluminum and mercury haven't been used in vaccines since the olden days and are no longer used. I said no, I'm pretty sure that the majority of vaccines today use an aluminum adjuvant. She said there might be a trace amount of aluminum in vaccines, she wasn't sure, but there is aluminum in drinking water too. I said, well, injecting something into your muscle tissue is quite different from drinking it. She said these vaccines have been around for 30 years. I said yes, but their safety hasn't been established and some people theorize that aluminum in adjuvants can build up in brain tissue. She said she's not familiar with the latest research but she's confident they are very safe, and she gave us a pamphlet from the government's stance and linking to the government's website on it. I said, I know you're not an expert and we try to follow the research ourselves. We're just leery because I've seen a study showing aluminium build up from vaccination in brain tissue in rats. She said rates are different than humans and maybe humans have a better blood-brain barrier. I said yes, maybe, but we need studies to test that which I have not seen conducted.

If any of you believe that regular doctors have a clue about the details of vaccines and are not just channeling recommendations from higher authorities, then please probe your doctor next time you're there.

Well from someone that's been in the medical field for decades I can tell you with 100% certainty your new doctor was shaking her head at you and your wife when you left. I'm not sure what you do for a living, but if you do have a real profession, you probably have had people try and tell you how your job should be done (when in fact they know virtually nothing about it).

[bossmansteve]

Originally Posted by Scott h

Well from someone that's been in the medical field for decades I can tell you with 100% certainty your new doctor was shaking her head at you and your wife when you left. I'm not sure what you do for a living, but if you do have a real profession, you probably have had people try and tell you how your job should be done (when in fact they know virtually nothing about it).

She really didn't know what she was talking about to say that aluminum is no longer used in vaccines.

Whether she thinks she's morally superior to me or not... who cares, not me. Petty people will be petty.

[bossmansteve]

Originally Posted by NewGuard84

Thankfully we live in an era of established scientific knowledge, where some things are now proven facts as opposed to opinions.

Some things, but not vaccine safety. If you disagree, show me the "science" demonstrating that aluminum adjuvants do not cause increased rates of autism.

[Scott h]

Originally Posted by bossmansteve

She really didn't know what she was talking about to say that aluminum is no longer used in vaccines.

Whether she thinks she's morally superior to me or not... who cares, not me. Petty people will be petty.

She's not petty.....just better educated.

[bossmansteve]

Originally Posted by Scott h

She's not petty.....just better educated.

In the area of pediatrics, sure. In my profession, I am better educated. In the area of vaccine research, neither of us are greatly educated but I dare say I am probably better educated than she since she doesn't even know that aluminum is used as the adjuvant in most vaccines.

[Scott h]

Originally Posted by bossmansteve

In the area of pediatrics, sure. In my profession, I am better educated. In the area of vaccine research, neither of us are greatly educated but I dare say I am probably better educated than she since she doesn't even know that aluminum is used as the adjuvant in most vaccines.

You keep going on about "vaccine research". She probably doesn't care. Does every mechanic know what metal is used in a spark plug? If they don't know, but you happen to google that piece of trivia, does that mean you have any qualifications as a mechanic? Of course not. Nor does it mean the mechanic doesn't know what they are doing. She just has to know that it's safe and that not vaccinating your children is not safe. It's not rocket science.

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by bossmansteve

Today we went to a pediatrician, a new one that we haven't seen before. She looked to be mid-30s. She asked about vaccination towards the end. I told her we doubted the safety of aluminum in vaccines. She said that aluminum and mercury haven't been used in vaccines since the olden days and are no longer used. I said no, I'm pretty sure that the majority of vaccines today use an aluminum adjuvant. She said there might be a trace amount of aluminum in vaccines, she wasn't sure, but there is aluminum in drinking water too. I said, well, injecting something into your muscle tissue is quite different from drinking it. She said these vaccines have been around for 30 years. I said yes, but their safety hasn't been established and some people theorize that aluminum in adjuvants can build up in brain tissue. She said she's not familiar with the latest research but she's confident they are very safe, and she gave us a pamphlet from the government's stance and linking to the government's website on it. I said, I know you're not an expert and we try to follow the research ourselves. We're just leery because I've seen a study showing aluminium build up from vaccination in brain tissue in rats. She said rates are different than humans and maybe humans have a better blood-brain barrier. I said yes, maybe, but we need studies to test that which I have not seen conducted.

If any of you believe that regular doctors have a clue about the details of vaccines and are not just channeling recommendations from higher authorities, then please probe your doctor next time you're there.

Read from factual sites versus conspiracy sites

No adjuvant ActHIB, chickenpox, live zoster (Zostavax), measles, mumps & rubella (MMR), meningococcal (Menactra, Menveo), rotavirus, seasonal influenza (except Fluad), single antigen polio (IPOL), yellow fever https://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/co...adjuvants.html

That means no aluminum.

There has never been even a hint of a connection between vaccines and autism. Just conspiracy sites milking the gullible with click bait.


As people have said

DescriptionIn statistics, the phrase "correlation does not imply causation" refers to the inability to legitimately deduce a cause-and-effect relationship between two variables solely on the basis of an observed association or correlation between them. Wikipedia

You took cold medication in your life...could cause autism. How about drinking milk while pregnant or trying too man or woman. You were stressed out about conspiracies while trying and during pregnancy. Could cause autism. Could have too high a sugar diet. You drunk alcohol while trying or during pregnancy.

Again. There are absolutely zero links or valid studies linking the two. To say anything else is blantantly dangerous to other gullibles in society and puts those with compromised immune systems at serious risk of death by creating outbreak pockets. Had everyone vaccinated many dangerous diseases will be gone.

Anyone not vaccinated by choice should not be allowed in general population areas out of risk of harm to others.

Also these.. “my doctor said this or that” is silly to use as quite frankly I find it very hard to trust you were knowledgeable enough to either ask or understand the questions or responses to then second hand provide feedback to a greater community as a source of valid information

[bessiedog]

I’d like to see the quality of the ‘research’ that bossystevo cites.

I have my doubts he even knows what a credible peer reviewed study looks like, or how to interpret the study.

[bossmansteve]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

Read from factual sites versus conspiracy sites

No adjuvant ActHIB, chickenpox, live zoster (Zostavax), measles, mumps & rubella (MMR), meningococcal (Menactra, Menveo), rotavirus, seasonal influenza (except Fluad), single antigen polio (IPOL), yellow fever https://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/co...adjuvants.html

That means no aluminum.

Thank you for pasting the 10 vaccines listed with no adjuvant. A few lines up they list 22 with aluminum adjuvant. That means yes aluminum.

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

There has never been even a hint of a connection between vaccines and autism. Just conspiracy sites milking the gullible with click bait.

There are thousands of stories from parents whose children were healthy and happy until getting vaccines and then, like a switch flicked, regressed in behavior and ended up being diagnosed with autism. To me that qualifies as "a hint of a connection" between vaccines and autism. Where there is smoke there is fire and I doubt there is a conspiracy going on here.

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

DescriptionIn statistics, the phrase "correlation does not imply causation" refers to the inability to legitimately deduce a cause-and-effect relationship between two variables solely on the basis of an observed association or correlation between them. Wikipedia

Thank you for the stats 101 reminder. I would never claim causation based on correlation.

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

You took cold medication in your life...could cause autism. How about drinking milk while pregnant or trying too man or woman. You were stressed out about conspiracies while trying and during pregnancy. Could cause autism. Could have too high a sugar diet. You drunk alcohol while trying or during pregnancy.

You are right that the world is a risky place. Sticking with tradition is the least risky thing you can do. Everyone has different risk tolerances.

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

Again. There are absolutely zero links or valid studies linking the two. To say anything else is blantantly dangerous to other gullibles in society and puts those with compromised immune systems at serious risk of death by creating outbreak pockets. Had everyone vaccinated many dangerous diseases will be gone.

Lack of evidence linking the two does not constitute evidence that the two are not linked, unless an extensive amount of studying was actually done to try to link the two. Science 101: science only works by disproving theories, never by proving them. There are a lot of theories around vaccines and possible autism connection to disprove before we can say that a causal link probably does not exist.

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

Also these.. “my doctor said this or that” is silly to use as quite frankly I find it very hard to trust you were knowledgeable enough to either ask or understand the questions or responses to then second hand provide feedback to a greater community as a source of valid information

It is silly but I posted that because one or two people in this thread seem to believe that doctors are some kind of super-geniuses who know all the answers. As I've said and now demonstrated with that anecdote, doctors are generally clueless about vaccine safety and only forward the recommendations given to them by governmental bodies.

[bossmansteve]

Originally Posted by Scott h

You keep going on about "vaccine research". She probably doesn't care. Does every mechanic know what metal is used in a spark plug? If they don't know, but you happen to google that piece of trivia, does that mean you have any qualifications as a mechanic? Of course not. Nor does it mean the mechanic doesn't know what they are doing. She just has to know that it's safe and that not vaccinating your children is not safe. It's not rocket science.

I've never claimed to have the qualifications of a doctor, nor have I claimed that doctors don't know what they're doing. I've only said that the vast majority of them know little about the details of vaccines and therefore that their opinions on vaccines are practically worthless as they are not personal opinions stemming from expertise but merely reflect the opinion they learned in medical school and the opinion dictated to them by the government. Surely you can agree with that.

[bossmansteve]

Originally Posted by bessiedog

I’d like to see the quality of the ‘research’ that bossystevo cites.

I have my doubts he even knows what a credible peer reviewed study looks like, or how to interpret the study.

Try this on for size:
Biopersistence and Brain Translocation of Aluminum Adjuvants of Vaccines

Hopefully you took biochemistry 101 otherwise I imagine it might be challenging to understand.

[raab]

Originally Posted by 260 Rem

Just back from the getting the 30th flu shot in my life...all good so far, never been diagnosed on the autism spectrum.

There’s a joke there regarding your political leanings. But I’ll leave that one alone.