P.A.L Verification: Selling a gun

[IBEX]

Quick question guys. I am in the process of selling a rifle to someone that lives in another province. I don't know the person.

I always ask for a copy of their P.A.L and verify it with the RCMP before selling the gun.

The problem in this case is that the person does not want to send a full copy of his P.A.L. due to information security concerns. After a little discussion he sent me a Black and white copy with all the info on it except for the date of birth (blacked out). The photo is B&W too

My questions is that do you need the person's date of birth to verify their Pal? or the name and P.A.L number is enough?

Thanks

[Typical]

The guy's name and address and the PAL number which is located in the bottom left corner of the card.

[qwert]

Originally Posted by IBEX

Quick question guys. I am in the process of selling a rifle to someone that lives in another province. I don't know the person.

I always ask for a copy of their P.A.L and verify it with the RCMP before selling the gun.

The problem in this case is that the person does not want to send a full copy of his P.A.L. due to information security concerns. After a little discussion he sent me a Black and white copy with all the info on it except for the date of birth (blacked out). The photo is B&W too

My questions is that do you need the person's date of birth to verify their Pal? or the name and P.A.L number is enough?

Thanks

A seller is NOT REQUIRED to verify a PAL.

A seller MAY verify a PAL, but since no record of verification is permitted to be kept, (as that record would become a 'back-door registry') there is no way for a seller to prove that any verification or other due diligence was performed.

The Firearms Act does require that the seller "have no reason to believe" that the purchaser does NOT have a PAL. If the purchaser in unknown to the seller, then the seller would "have no reason to believe". IMHO a simple statement in an Email to the purchaser that a PAL is required, and an answering written statement from the purchaser that they 'have a valid PAL' should satisfy the requirements of the ACT. If the purchaser was lying, they would be 'obtaining goods by false pretense' and fraud, in addition to any other violations of the Firearms Act.

(I do not mean to brag, but) I am not a lawyer and nothing here constitutes 'legal advice'.
I do suggest you read the actual Firearms Act and govern yourself accordingly.

Good Luck, YMMV.

[IBEX]

The question has been answered. Thanks guys

[canadiantdi]

Cabelas in Edmonton checks the PAL on the gov website to verify it's validity. Number and birth date are required to do this if I remember correctly. I guess they don't legally have to? Anyone buy a gun from Cabelas without going through this?

[burbotman]

Originally Posted by canadiantdi

Cabelas in Edmonton checks the PAL on the gov website to verify it's validity. Number and birth date are required to do this if I remember correctly. I guess they don't legally have to? Anyone buy a gun from Cabelas without going through this?

I bought a gun from the south Cabelas last year. Clerk just looked at my PAL, nothing recorded, did not look up anything on the computer.

[EZM]

Originally Posted by qwert

A seller is NOT REQUIRED to verify a PAL.

A seller MAY verify a PAL, but since no record of verification is permitted to be kept, (as that record would become a 'back-door registry') there is no way for a seller to prove that any verification or other due diligence was performed.

The Firearms Act does require that the seller "have no reason to believe" that the purchaser does NOT have a PAL. If the purchaser in unknown to the seller, then the seller would "have no reason to believe". IMHO a simple statement in an Email to the purchaser that a PAL is required, and an answering written statement from the purchaser that they 'have a valid PAL' should satisfy the requirements of the ACT. If the purchaser was lying, they would be 'obtaining goods by false pretense' and fraud, in addition to any other violations of the Firearms Act.

(I do not mean to brag, but) I am not a lawyer and nothing here constitutes 'legal advice'.
I do suggest you read the actual Firearms Act and govern yourself accordingly.

Good Luck, YMMV.

100% correct - BUT I'd say get the PAL any and every time you sell a gun. You could be liable if found negligent in exercising reasonable due diligence. I will say, I am not aware of this ever being brought before a court, however, I'd rather be safe and protected.

What if the person you sell a weapon to "goes postal" - if you had ensured a PAL .... you are off the hook - if not it could present some challenges.

Just a precaution.

[Dan'ol]

Originally Posted by IBEX

Quick question guys. I am in the process of selling a rifle to someone that lives in another province. I don't know the person.

I always ask for a copy of their P.A.L and verify it with the RCMP before selling the gun.

The problem in this case is that the person does not want to send a full copy of his P.A.L. due to information security concerns. After a little discussion he sent me a Black and white copy with all the info on it except for the date of birth (blacked out). The photo is B&W too

My questions is that do you need the person's date of birth to verify their Pal? or the name and P.A.L number is enough?

Thanks