arm peace officers petition

[sikwhiskey]

Originally Posted by Redfrog

How long is the course that allows us to own and carry a rifle capable of shooting a KM.?

How much actually range time does the course require?

How many rounds and what level of expertise is required before you get your PAL, Wildlife certificate.

OMG it's a handgun. I can't believe you haven't shot up the whole dang neighborhood as a matter of fact I'm totally amazed the handgun didn't go berserk and shoot up the neighborhood while you were sleeping.

X 10. signed.

[slivers86]

Originally Posted by Cal

LOL I take it you've never worked on a service rig.

Sure its dangerous job, I'll hand that to you. But I'm also sure, that there are seminars, and think teams who sit down with all levels, and decide what could be done to prevent a tragedy each time it happens. This is what will happen, and changes will be made. I'm sure if fire retardant workwear was not mandatory, and a rig had a blow out / fire, and guys burnt to death, all the workers would be in outrage and changes would be made. People have a hate on for law enforcement, because they - their friends or someone they heard of broke the law and had a bad encounter. We're not all bad apples, and don't like to be labelled as.


Also - Someone referred to the fella Blake spoke about who was blind - asking how could he become a PO than - answer - we were in house protective services prior to the creation of Community Peace Officers in Alberta. When that came out, we all had to pass physical tests, be re interviewed, and were selected. Even the people who somehow made it past that, some didn't last long. As for asking 'why was he hired anyways' I'm pretty sure people lose their eyesight and there is nothing you can do about it... you'll probably lose yours before your heart stops beating... hope you don't have to change careers because of it.

Friday August 24, 2012 is the public memorial in High River. Unfortunately, I cannot attend. I know many of my colleagues plan on attending, and showing their respect for a man who gave his life in the line of duty. For that, we should all pay tribute. The man has a wife, children, and grandchilder. For god's sake quit trash talking the group of us, and show some respect for this man. He's not just a Peace Officer. He has a name.
His name was Rod Lazenby.

[sikwhiskey]

Half the crap posted in this tread isn't worth reading, everyone needs right to adequately defend themselves, regardless of badge or not!!! In this instance, an Ex RCMP officer of 30 years????? Not eligible??? complete BS and it cost a good man his life!

[BeeGuy]

How many years will it be before our animal control PO's get the glocks they deserve?

[sikwhiskey]

Originally Posted by BeeGuy

How many years will it be before our animal control PO's get the glocks they deserve?

How many years before Citizens can carry, Glocks, while bow hunting, Fishing, or for a walk in the woods?? Already overdue!!! The responsibility should lie with the holder of said firearm, not with the scary,bad gun. That goes for the RCMP, LEO's and peace officers, as well as Citizens.
Why is a pistol, with a range of 50 yards ,if you can see, sooooo scary?

[BeeGuy]

Originally Posted by sikwhiskey

How many years before Citizens can carry, Glocks, while bow hunting, Fishing, or for a walk in the woods?? Already overdue!!! The responsibility should lie with the holder of said firearm, not with the scary,bad gun. That goes for the RCMP, LEO's and peace officers, as well as Citizens.
Why is a pistol, with a range of 50 yards ,if you can see, sooooo scary?

Exactly.

I don't want to see a further militarization of any level of government before I can carry.

[slivers86]

Originally Posted by BeeGuy

How many years will it be before our animal control PO's get the glocks they deserve?

Agree 100%. They do a high risk job. Removing an animal from a house can be more dangerous than arresting a person.

That cat, dog, rabbit, horse, cow, pig, etc. can be someones life. Take the dog, they might grab a gun and mow ya down.

[sikwhiskey]

Originally Posted by BeeGuy

Exactly.

I don't want to see a further militarization of any level of government before I can carry.

I can understand that, but, militarization of Government, with hand guns? its so stupid its laughable. Would you rather have 10 people with hand guns shooting at you or one very precise hunter with a 300wm?

[BeeGuy]

Originally Posted by sikwhiskey

I can understand that, but, militarization of Government, with hand guns? its so stupid its laughable. Would you rather have 10 people with hand guns shooting at you or one very precise hunter with a 300wm?

I'm not particular about where government lead comes from.

Seems to me that more civilians are the victims of gun crime than are any single group of law enforcement no matter how you add it up.

So? Who needs to defend themselves?

[Cal]

Originally Posted by slivers86

Sure its dangerous job, I'll hand that to you. But I'm also sure, that there are seminars, and think teams who sit down with all levels, and decide what could be done to prevent a tragedy each time it happens. This is what will happen, and changes will be made. I'm sure if fire retardant workwear was not mandatory, and a rig had a blow out / fire, and guys burnt to death, all the workers would be in outrage and changes would be made. People have a hate on for law enforcement, because they - their friends or someone they heard of broke the law and had a bad encounter. We're not all bad apples, and don't like to be labelled as.


Also - Someone referred to the fella Blake spoke about who was blind - asking how could he become a PO than - answer - we were in house protective services prior to the creation of Community Peace Officers in Alberta. When that came out, we all had to pass physical tests, be re interviewed, and were selected. Even the people who somehow made it past that, some didn't last long. As for asking 'why was he hired anyways' I'm pretty sure people lose their eyesight and there is nothing you can do about it... you'll probably lose yours before your heart stops beating... hope you don't have to change careers because of it.

Friday August 24, 2012 is the public memorial in High River. Unfortunately, I cannot attend. I know many of my colleagues plan on attending, and showing their respect for a man who gave his life in the line of duty. For that, we should all pay tribute. The man has a wife, children, and grandchilder. For god's sake quit trash talking the group of us, and show some respect for this man. He's not just a Peace Officer. He has a name.
His name was Rod Lazenby.

Lol I was talking about the co-workers. You claimed that the average person didnt face as much danger from other humans as PO's. If you were to be cooped up and sharing hotel rooms with a whole crew of drug addled, sadistic creeps for 21 days straight, on duty and off, you might change your mind on that statement. And no I dont support C&C, the last thing I'd want is those guys packing guns.

Like I said, I've delt with PO's that were very good and enought that were downright terrible that untill you guys have a better screening proccess I dont think guns are a good idea.

[sikwhiskey]

Originally Posted by BeeGuy

I'm not particular about where government lead comes from.

Seems to me that more civilians are the victims of gun crime than are any single group of law enforcement no matter how you add it up.

So? Who needs to defend themselves?

Everyone needs to defend themselves. Civilians are targeted more so because they are unarmed and every nut case know that, doesn't bode well for peace officers either, why are Fish and Wildlife officers armed, or police for that matter? Why do RCMP carry? To protect themselves period. Yet we are denied the same right, as are Peace officers. BS plain and simple.

[slivers86]

Originally Posted by Cal

Lol I was talking about the co-workers. You claimed that the average person didnt face as much danger from other humans as PO's. If you were to be cooped up and sharing hotel rooms with a whole crew of drug addled, sadistic creeps for 21 days straight, on duty and off, you might change your mind on that statement. And no I dont support C&C, the last thing I'd want is those guys packing guns.

Like I said, I've delt with PO's that were very good and enought that were downright terrible that untill you guys have a better screening proccess I dont think guns are a good idea.

you talk about it like we are 1 big department.

Municipality of St. Albert, Okotoks, City of Calgary, AHS, Corrections - all have different standards of hiring. It doesn't take much for some road sander to take his seniority in a city and lateral into a spot in law enforcement. Run the physical, the union will do the rest for you.

The 'good' departments have panel interviews, some even are stepping up to polygraphs, but even that doesn't work out the weirdo's as we've noticed with some of the police officers on the street.

Regardless, if you're going onto some rednecks ranch for an animal welfare check, and he's a mentally ill redneck at that... wouldn't you rather have a means of protection over a cell phone radio that was probably out of range?

[Mickey]

If Peace Officers spent less than 95% of their time writing traffic tickets, then I am for them carrying.

If writing tickets is so damn dangerous, do bloody well do it. There are bigger things to worry about in this province than someone speeding.

Maybe take some of these Peace officers and train them to also deal with and help out our wildlife officers, cause we are certainly short in that area.

Having these people spending most of their days writing traffic tickets is nothing but a cash grab and a joke.

Set up in a school zone where there is some danger to kids, or in a neighbourhood, not on the hwy where it goes from 100 to 70 and write tickets all day. Then you may see a little more support for them.

[Leviathan024]

I do not see the need for them to carry firearms. There are enough macho shoot first cops the last thing we need is a peace officer pointing a gun at you for speeding or breaking a bylaw

[260 Rem]

Many of us still waiting for information that will convince us to support the PO carry argument. Is there evidence that Lazeby would have been able to protect himself with a pistol ? Stats regarding numbers of PO's killed before the Lazenby murder? Pro carries need to step up with some factual support, or as BeeGuy suggests ... appear to be nothing more than a special interest group using a man's death the advance their agenda.

[JohninAB]

The Peace Offier designation covers more than just those hired as peace officers by the counties. So do not paint all "Peace Officers" with the same brush.

[jts1]

A peace officer is just a security guard with a complex. Are they all that way? No.. But making sure the mall or hospital is safe does not require a firearm. They do not receive the correct training to even think about it, the screening process is not near tight enough. If they want fire arms leave the sandbox and go play with the big boys. Local police departments are always looking for good men.

[BeeGuy]

Originally Posted by Mickey

If Peace Officers spent less than 95% of their time writing traffic tickets, then I am for them carrying.

If writing tickets is so damn dangerous, do bloody well do it. There are bigger things to worry about in this province than someone speeding.

Maybe take some of these Peace officers and train them to also deal with and help out our wildlife officers, cause we are certainly short in that area.

Having these people spending most of their days writing traffic tickets is nothing but a cash grab and a joke.

Set up in a school zone where there is some danger to kids, or in a neighbourhood, not on the hwy where it goes from 100 to 70 and write tickets all day. Then you may see a little more support for them.

+1

There is a problem in law enforcement where ticket writing is primarily about revenue generation than about serving the public good.

In my opinion this amounts to fraud and abuse of authority.

Whose coffers does that money go into?

[JohninAB]

Originally Posted by jts1

A peace officer is just a security guard with a complex.

jts1, you might want to retract that statement as it is proving your ignorance of the Peace Officer designation. Obvious you know nothing about it so why you are posting is beyond me.

[jts1]

Just my backwoods uneducated opinion. I know that not all are this way, should have stipulated that more. There is good and bad with everyone and everything. But 'some' have a complex.
I live across the street from a sheriff and next door to a Calgary police officer. We get together and play poker and kill a few cold ones. Have heard both sides of the story, the only ones that think we need to start arming these guys is themselves. There is different levels of law and bylaw enforcement for a reason. Each in turn helps out the other. Is there a risk with the job? Of course there is. Is it tragic for co workers, friends and family when the worst happens? Beyond question yes.

But is arming them the answer? I think not. They are under trained and poorly screened. If police officers were required in there positions there would be some there. They are provided with self defence training, nothing extensive but some basic tools. Could there be other options provided for self defence? Sure that could be looked into there are many other ways to provide that sense of self protection. If this is just a matter of a few tragic incidences and now the group feels they need firearms. That is a long ways to reach. Again in my backwoods uneducated opinion.

[fargineyesore]

Absolutely not. If the situation requires it, bring along a POLICE OFFICER like everyone else has to do to protect themselves. Their duties shouldn't require them to be in these situations. That's why we have POLICE OFFICERS isn't it? Who does the hiring of Peace Officers? Is it the Municipality? Who does the personality/psych check? How do we keep those that other posters have mentioned that are less than stellar individuals from getting sidearms?

[1899b]

Originally Posted by slivers86

you talk about it like we are 1 big department.

Municipality of St. Albert, Okotoks, City of Calgary, AHS, Corrections - all have different standards of hiring. It doesn't take much for some road sander to take his seniority in a city and lateral into a spot in law enforcement. Run the physical, the union will do the rest for you.

The 'good' departments have panel interviews, some even are stepping up to polygraphs, but even that doesn't work out the weirdo's as we've noticed with some of the police officers on the street.

Regardless, if you're going onto some rednecks ranch for an animal welfare check, and he's a mentally ill redneck at that... wouldn't you rather have a means of protection over a cell phone radio that was probably out of range?

Uhhh you applied and were accepted for a job that you NEW you wouldn't have a sidearm. Why is this an issue now? Please explain. Is the world a scarier place then the day you had your interview? My best friend is RC and his ex roommate is a Peace Officer for the record so I am not a law enforcement hater.......

[Olderangler]

In the USA 18% of Police Officers killed were during trafic stops. I would think it's about the same here. So I would guess a Peace Officers job is dangerous. Thats why the Sheriffs are armed.

[fargineyesore]

Then maybe Peace Officers should not be doing traffic stops.

[1899b]

Its a very unfortunate thing. RIP....

[jts1]

Originally Posted by Olderangler

In the USA 18% of Police Officers killed were during trafic stops. I would think it's about the same here. So I would guess a Peace Officers job is dangerous. Thats why the Sheriffs are armed.

You can not compare the stats from the states to Canada. The sheer number of weapons carried on persons and in vehicles in the USA is astronomical compared to Canada.

[beansgunsghandi]

I don't want more handguns in our society on a daily basis. Especially not in poorly trained hands... So no, I'm not signing that. I shoot pistols so I'm not at all anti-handgun, just realistic about untrained people wandering around in public with 'em. Not good. Many on here think more armed people in public will equal greater safety. They have obviously never been to countries where it's "normal" to be armed at all times. Those countries are fricking nuts...

Most of the time it's not going to be some "hero" stopping a shooting in a theatre, but some dumb-ass shooting himself in the same..

[1899b]

Originally Posted by beansgunsghandi

I don't want more handguns in our society on a daily basis. Especially not in poorly trained hands... So no, I'm not signing that. I shoot pistols so I'm not at all anti-handgun, just realistic about untrained people wandering around in public with 'em. Not good. Many on here think more armed people in public will equal greater safety. They have obviously never been to countries where it's "normal" to be armed at all times. Those countries are fricking nuts...

Most of the time it's not going to be some "hero" stopping a shooting in a theatre, but some dumb-ass shooting himself in the same..

We need a society that helps out as well. We had a fella from Sherwood Park here that carried on the job and killed his co workers back in June during an armoured car money pick up or drop off at the U of A. Even though he was saying off kilter things on his Facebook prior, and his friends knowing he had access to guns, nobody said a fricken word to his employer. There was enuff red flags but the sheeple didn't say boo.

[Kale_M]

Originally Posted by jts1

You can not compare the stats from the states to Canada. The sheer number of weapons carried on persons and in vehicles in the USA is astronomical compared to Canada.

Exactly the reason as to why not everyone should be able to carry a sidearm..

[JohninAB]

Originally Posted by jts1

Just my backwoods uneducated opinion. I know that not all are this way, should have stipulated that more. There is good and bad with everyone and everything. But 'some' have a complex.
I live across the street from a sheriff and next door to a Calgary police officer. We get together and play poker and kill a few cold ones. Have heard both sides of the story, the only ones that think we need to start arming these guys is themselves. There is different levels of law and bylaw enforcement for a reason. Each in turn helps out the other. Is there a risk with the job? Of course there is. Is it tragic for co workers, friends and family when the worst happens? Beyond question yes.

But is arming them the answer? I think not. They are under trained and poorly screened. If police officers were required in there positions there would be some there. They are provided with self defence training, nothing extensive but some basic tools. Could there be other options provided for self defence? Sure that could be looked into there are many other ways to provide that sense of self protection. If this is just a matter of a few tragic incidences and now the group feels they need firearms. That is a long ways to reach. Again in my backwoods uneducated opinion.

Proving my point more and more. For example, a forest officer is considered a Peace Officer when carrying out their duties. But they are all security guards with a complex right? Peace Officer is a designation in law. The county officers are bylaw officers but when carrying out their duties they have the designation of being a Peace Officer under law which implies certain things. ie Obstructing a Peace Officer.