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Old 11-15-2017, 09:08 AM
Big Grey Wolf Big Grey Wolf is offline
 
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Hows everyone marten number going so far. Only picked up 3 so far this season so do not like the slow start. Had a nice chat with old trapper on Berland river. Mentioned his high numbers were in 80's/yr and worst was 1 in 1954. You wise old trappers like Keg, are we in a major down turn cycle in marten in Alberta. What I would really like to learn is what is cause for extreme variation besides all pine/spruce trees being logged.
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Old 11-15-2017, 10:11 AM
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Hows everyone marten number going so far. Only picked up 3 so far this season so do not like the slow start. Had a nice chat with old trapper on Berland river. Mentioned his high numbers were in 80's/yr and worst was 1 in 1954. You wise old trappers like Keg, are we in a major down turn cycle in marten in Alberta. What I would really like to learn is what is cause for extreme variation besides all pine/spruce trees being logged.
I'd be interested in some history as well.
I would imagine cycles would be more region or area specific vs province wide unless a major disease were to move through.

My main employment has kept me busy so I haven't set a trap yet!
I hope to get rolling soon . I have to try a new area this year. North end of line wasn't showing lots of marten sign after i pulled traps last year.
My numbers are low any way . 12 Marten last year. I have been almost completely logged out, or drill camped out, or 1000 man camped out , or pipelined out, or gravel pitted out, or new sub-satationed out, ... what I'm getting at is don't have much timber left, so i am not sure what the south side will produce this year...
interested in others thoughts.
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Old 11-15-2017, 11:38 AM
HighOnTheHills HighOnTheHills is offline
 
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http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-37775622
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Old 11-15-2017, 11:39 AM
HighOnTheHills HighOnTheHills is offline
 
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http://www.bbc.com/future/story/2017...-life-on-earth
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Old 11-16-2017, 09:11 AM
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I think you are quite high on those hills. Shouldn't you be hugging some trees in Tofino this week?
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Old 11-16-2017, 09:21 AM
Big Grey Wolf Big Grey Wolf is offline
 
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Default marten

Looking for real knowledge by experienced trappers with many years on trapline. I am not interested in WWF on how the sky is falling. Marten numbers have always fluctuated since 1647 when Hudson Bay company first started to keep records on fur industry.
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Old 11-16-2017, 10:38 AM
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Looking for real knowledge by experienced trappers with many years on trapline. I am not interested in WWF on how the sky is falling. Marten numbers have always fluctuated since 1647 when Hudson Bay company first started to keep records on fur industry.
You are correct. My catch the craziest 3 years on my line 8, 46, 27. I don't know the rhyme or reason. I usually average around that 30 mark.
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Old 11-16-2017, 10:40 AM
HighOnTheHills HighOnTheHills is offline
 
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...as we can see; where peoples' morals are...
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Old 11-16-2017, 10:44 AM
HighOnTheHills HighOnTheHills is offline
 
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I think you are quite high on those hills. Shouldn't you be hugging some trees in Tofino this week?
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Old 11-16-2017, 11:27 AM
HighOnTheHills HighOnTheHills is offline
 
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no worries, shift from 'wwf' to... 'Canadian Press':

"expansion of communities and in industries such as oil and gas and forestry makes it more difficult"

https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/...itor-says.html
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Old 11-16-2017, 11:43 AM
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He's trapping marten not bubal hartebeests or grizzlies.
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Old 11-16-2017, 12:46 PM
HighOnTheHills HighOnTheHills is offline
 
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He's trapping marten not bubal hartebeests or grizzlies.
yeah i'd like to live in a bubble too without affect
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Old 11-16-2017, 12:50 PM
HighOnTheHills HighOnTheHills is offline
 
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i got time tho

""If more and more lands are converted to agriculture, particularly grapes with high fences that prevent deer's ability to move through grazing land, it really changes the population dynamics of the deer AND Of Course their predators, mountain lions,"

https://www.newtimesslo.com/sanluiso...nt?oid=3690300
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Old 11-17-2017, 09:27 AM
Big Grey Wolf Big Grey Wolf is offline
 
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Highhills please get lost, not interested in grapes and deer. Looking for real knowledge by experienced trappers on marten fluctuation numbers on traplines.
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Old 11-18-2017, 01:11 AM
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I don't know about historic numbers, I do know that when my dad came to the Peace country Marten were a major income for some trappers.

Dad came to the Peace country in 1933. But he didn't learn to trap Marten before they all dissapeared. In fact he never saw one until 1965.

By the time I was born in 1954 there were no Marten in the area. Everyone I know figured they got wiped out by the rabies plaque of the mid 1950s.
Or by the poison that was spread everywhere to stop the rabies spreading south.

Both Marten and Fisher were non existent when dad moved to the homestead in 1948.
He told of catching his very first Fisher in 1960, the first anyone in the area anyone could remember seeing. Only one old trapper even knew what it was.

Keep in mind that back in the 1950s there were no roads and no cutlines in this area. Trappers did all their trapping on foot, or with dogs, pack or sled and some with horses. And they followed water courses for the most part.

And there were also no beaver and thus much less small game for predators. On top of that rabbits, (Snowshoe Hare) cycled from overpopulated to next to nothing every ten years.

I think all of this slowed the return of the Marten and Fisher which prey heavily on Snowshoe Hare.

The first I heard of Marten in the area, my foster brother caught one in a Mink set. It's all anyone talked about for the rest of the winter. That was in 1965.

Dad and my older brother caught their first Marten in 1966, I caught my first Marten in 1968. I had caught my first Fisher in 1978. I had been away from trapping, going to high school in Wetaskiwin.

I know the Rabbits haven't really cycled in years. The last rabbit plaque I remember was in 1981.

I think that fragmentation of available habitat and oil and logging activity has adversely effect both Marten and Fisher populations. I know there seem to be less of both now then there was in the 1980s. But I suspect that fragmentation of habitat would also insulate some populations from these fluctuations.

It would be interesting to hear how trappers around Hay River are faring this season. I know that the Hare population up there is at or nearly at peak. This summer when were up there fishing we saw hundreds of hares every evening that we drove the roads up there.
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Old 11-18-2017, 01:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Big Grey Wolf View Post
Highhills please get lost, not interested in grapes and deer. Looking for real knowledge by experienced trappers on marten fluctuation numbers on traplines.
It could be just a slow start to the year. Some years it goes that way.

It was warm until recently and I suspect that would limit thier movement. They may be still in the swamps hunting mice. They do that a lot in the summer but when the snow starts to build up they switch to mostly rabbits.

And they move a lot more.
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Old 11-18-2017, 08:07 AM
Big Grey Wolf Big Grey Wolf is offline
 
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Keg good summary of Peace River marten cycle. I would bet on the rabies scare in 50's being a major factor on low marten/fisher numbers. Although marten chase rabbits I believe the high lynx numbers that follow rabbit peak also affects their preditation on marten. We have much higher lynx numbers on our line now. Forest fragmentation by logging, especially very large cut blocks that do not allow for in migration must be a major factor in yearly harvest numbers.

Last edited by Big Grey Wolf; 11-18-2017 at 08:20 AM.
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Old 11-18-2017, 09:53 PM
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Talking to some older trappers they tell me marten were rare in the 70s around Fort vermilion area. Lots of fisher caught, 60-70 off a 4 township line.
By the 80s marten picked up and fisher populations went down.
But the land changed too, used to be hundreds of little pond and muskrats, now there are more beaver and only dams on creeks, but these ponds are not ideal for the rats.
Now fisher are few, i only catch a couple per year on my line. My marten numbers are lower too, but no logging or heavy oilfeild in the last 20 years, so not sure what is the reason.
The land is changing for sure.
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Old 11-18-2017, 10:40 PM
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Something a lot of you probably don't know is that there was a time when there were very few beaver in the province as well.

I have papers from my dad's trapping that shows he was only allowed to take four beaver off his trapline in the 1950s and that he had to tag each pelt, and sets could not be placed close to the lodge.

That is how few there were. Some old trappers claim they were wiped out by disease. F&W told me they were trapped out.

Back in the 50s and before, trapping was all done on foot or with dogs or horses. There were no cut lines and few roads. One in this whole district in fact. And that was a dirt trail though the bush, not an all weather road. And there was no road crews to keep a road open in the winter.

To day we have infinity more mobility as trappers, we have vastly better equipment, and I am very sure there are a lot more trappers these days, and yet the beaver population continues to grow.

I just don't see a handful of trappers walking from set to set, packing hundreds of pounds of steel leg hold traps, wiping out the beaver populations when hundreds of trappers equipped with modern transport and equipment can't do it.
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Old 11-19-2017, 10:31 AM
Big Grey Wolf Big Grey Wolf is offline
 
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Keg, agree mobility in old days was limited, however beaver were in high demand and top prices. A lot of hungry trappers in 400 years can wipe out a significant population. Suspect beaver diseases also played a role in more isolated areas of bush. Probably a combination of things similar to what is now happening to marten number fluctuations, like Jim mentioned when fisher numbers went up marten decrease.
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Old 11-19-2017, 11:23 AM
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I believe our little line the numbers are up from last year and are fatter than I can remember. We usually take between 4 and 8 marten a year. We have 3 already on 5 sets. After a number of years of running 20 boxes we are down to just the areas that produce. Will be putting about 5 more boxes out in good fisher spots after hunting season.
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Old 11-19-2017, 06:32 PM
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Keg, agree mobility in old days was limited, however beaver were in high demand and top prices. A lot of hungry trappers in 400 years can wipe out a significant population. Suspect beaver diseases also played a role in more isolated areas of bush. Probably a combination of things similar to what is now happening to marten number fluctuations, like Jim mentioned when fisher numbers went up marten decrease.
I'm sure other factors played a role, in fact I believe that trapping played a very limited role if at all.

One has to remember that much of the north was only opened up recently. Steel traps were introduced here back in the late 1800s but saw use only by native trappers who trapped more for immediate needs then for profit as Europeans do.

Outsiders didn't really start to trap this area until around 1930 and then, only a few trapped this far north for many years.

I just don't think a limited number of trappers with very limited mobility and old fashioned equipment could do what today's farmers and trappers have been unable to do. in about the same time frame.
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Old 11-20-2017, 09:56 AM
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Numbers seem good on my line again this year. Had 30 the first week last year and managed to get 31 my first week this year. We'll see what the rest of the season looks like.
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Old 11-20-2017, 09:59 AM
Big Grey Wolf Big Grey Wolf is offline
 
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Keg you would enjoy movie I just got from Amazon, "Silence of North" true story of lady from Peace River. Her husband dragged her hundreds of miles north of Ft Mac in 1920 to trap muskrats on Slavy River. Cabin burnt in middle of winter,she had 1 year old baby and pregnant with second, walked out on river. Trapper Gordon Pinset in movie saved them. She shot moose and bears when raising her 3 children by herself after husband drowned while trapping.
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Old 11-20-2017, 10:05 AM
Big Grey Wolf Big Grey Wolf is offline
 
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Uke, you have a marten meca, are your lynx and fisher numbers/tracks still low as last year. Starting to hate a guy that can get "Top Lot" in both Marten and Fisher in one year!!
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Old 11-20-2017, 10:22 AM
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Uke, you have a marten meca, are your lynx and fisher numbers/tracks still low as last year. Starting to hate a guy that can get "Top Lot" in both Marten and Fisher in one year!!
Yup....only got one Fisher last week and only seen one set of Lynx tracks so far. Typically only catch Fisher in the first week or two. Will set for Lynx in a couple of weeks.

The funny thing with the top lot fisher last year was it was the only one I even sent in! The other I sold privately after I had it tanned. Will try for anther top lot with my one and only fisher again this year!
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Old 11-20-2017, 04:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Big Grey Wolf View Post
Keg you would enjoy movie I just got from Amazon, "Silence of North" true story of lady from Peace River. Her husband dragged her hundreds of miles north of Ft Mac in 1920 to trap muskrats on Slavy River. Cabin burnt in middle of winter,she had 1 year old baby and pregnant with second, walked out on river. Trapper Gordon Pinset in movie saved them. She shot moose and bears when raising her 3 children by herself after husband drowned while trapping.

Sounds like my kind of read all right, I'll have to look for it.

Thanks
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Old 11-21-2017, 07:23 PM
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We are at ~75 boxes and have pulled out 8 marten so far (should have been 9, we think someone stole one from our boxes, fresh boot tracks in the snow and marten fur froze in a snapped trap (like someone pryed a frozen marten out)
Our record year was 37 marten on 120 boxes (3 seasons ago)
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Old 11-27-2017, 10:46 AM
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We are at ~75 boxes and have pulled out 8 marten so far (should have been 9, we think someone stole one from our boxes, fresh boot tracks in the snow and marten fur froze in a snapped trap (like someone pryed a frozen marten out)
Our record year was 37 marten on 120 boxes (3 seasons ago)
where abouts is your line?
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Old 11-27-2017, 11:17 AM
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I put over 200 kms on my sled looking for moose this past wkd, i believe I saw one single set of marten tracks. Lynx and rabbits are just the opposite right now, tons of em. Wolverine seem to be doin good to in the area I was in.
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