Fish processing guidelines

[deepwater88]

Two specific questions;
1. What is the rule of thumb for maximum time allowable to fillet a fish in the summer months? Obviously as soon as possible, but at temperatures +15-20 degrees Celsius at what point do you get major tainting of the fillets?
At what point have the fillets tainted to the point of potentially causing illness?
2. If you freeze fish whole and thaw and fillet, is there a noticable decline in fillet flavour and taste?

I realize these may be subjective answers but I am interested in your thoughts and guidelines around jack fish and walleye.
And again I realize ASAP and straight into the pan is best!

Thank you for your opinions.

[EZM]

I don't know exact times, and maybe there's a food scientist on the forum who could provide a better answer, but fish have a very very short window.

Pulling a dying fish around on a stringer in a warm lake and taking it back a few hours later to the fillet shack is too late already IMO.

If I ever plan on keeping fish to eat for the table I typically bring a cooler with ice on board and bonk/bleed them and put them on ice. They get cooled off quickly. The gills/guts should never be in a fish for more than a few hours. If the fish I caught, and kept is early in the day and I still have fishing to do, the guts and gills come out and on the ice it goes.

The difference in food quality between properly handled (fish or meat) versus fish that not been treated properly is HUGE.

[bat119]

I have a filleting board on my boat, fish that can't be released are cleaned and put on ice ASAP. I shudder when I see guys cleaning faded fish with rigor already set in.

[neilsledder]

Originally Posted by bat119

I have a filleting board on my boat, fish that can't be released are cleaned and put on ice ASAP. I shudder when I see guys cleaning faded fish with rigor already set in.

That's the best way but not always legal!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[oilngas]

When we fish a Sask. Lake that we are allowed to kill a few fish, we generally target Wally. We are 99% of the time focused on a "shore Lunch" setting back at camp, and generally slip bobbering or jigging from anchored boats. So what we do is; decide on the number of folks / n fillets. Keep enuff smallish ones (say < 50 cm's.) for the group lunch and sink them in a fish basket, alive in the depth of water they are caught. Generally say 12 FOW, fish basket on bottom c/w wally and friends. Just before we head back to camp and the boiling oil, we kill them on the boat, bleed them and about 45 minutes later they are fillets. We take our own cutting boards to the "fish house" as we know they are clean and sanitary. Filets are never washed just cleaned with paper towels, and remember the Oklahoma adage " dry to fry". Into ice cold tempura and then and oil bath. yum!!

[Fishwhere]

When we first started going to sask around 15 years ago we would fill the rubbermaid up with water and put the fish in there and change the water out, but regardless of changing the water looking back its pretty nasty and the fish are petrified pretty bad. In saying that we never got sick(i dont think) from it....

However if youre already going to have something that size on your boat anyway then get a crappy cooler, freeze some pop bottles and put those in there. Works really well and doesnt add to the slime soup. I dont like stringers for pike because ive seen them shake off of them a few times. So they get bonked and go i to the cooler now.

As for cleaning them i think the guys that may have it right is the guys who have ice etc with them on the lake and at least take the fillets off the fish - but you dont want that sitting in water or blood either and its more work.

Ive always preferred double wrapping individual fillets and then then wrapping them together depending where you are and the legality of it, as opposed to keeping whole fish where the chest cavity tends to freezer burn because your cant pack it properly.

Ive heard of people freezing the fish in solid blocks of ice, and im sure its great but seems like too much work for me.

As for bleeding - something i would love to explore - but have. Ot found a humane way of doing it for pike or walleye.

Hope that helped a little

[bat119]

[QUOTE=neilsledder;3576557]That's the best way but not always legal! /QUOTE]

It iss in Sask. as long as you leave a piece of skin each piece and package one fish per bag.

[neilsledder]

[QUOTE=bat119;3576725]

Originally Posted by neilsledder

That's the best way but not always legal! /QUOTE]



It iss in Sask. as long as you leave a piece of skin each piece and package one fish per bag.

Oh ok. Never fished in Saskatchewan unfortunately so not up on the rules there.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[3blade]

While I've done the stringer thing in the distant past and never got sick, once you taste the difference proper handling makes you will never do it again.

First up, all fish have to be able to be measured if you are transporting them. There are minimum size limits for every species of game fish somewhere in AB except for burbot.

Regardless if I'm planning shore lunch or take home, take a cooler with frozen pop bottles or ice packs. Bonk, cut out the gills to bleed, then gut. Put fish in cooler until ready to fillet and cook. So much better, especially summer pike and walleye. Only exception is mountain streams, if I decide to keep one it's killed, cleaned and cooked immediately with no storage.

Edit: regarding freezing, white fleshed fish (perch, pike, walleye) are good from frozen. Fresh is better, but not by much. I refuse to eat any trout or salmon that's been frozen. Mushy, fishy, just bad. I'm guessing by frozen whole you mean with the guts out. I would never consider eating a fish that had been frozen whole and thawed with the guts in.

[deepwater88]

I have never known anyone to get sick off of fish that were not gutted immediately. Some were put on ice or cooled for 12-20 hours before being processed with no ill effects.
In the winter, I have seen natives net fish and all fish were frozen solid without being processed. Again, never heard tell of anyone getting sick.
Just curious.

[RavYak]

Put them on ice right away or keep them alive as long as possible(stringer or live well).

If putting on ice bleed them out, fillet them if allowed(often not allowed in AB) or gut them or leave whole if you prefer.

For fish to actually go bad you need to take pretty poor care of it or leave them out for a long time. The better you take care of them the better the meat will be though.

[Big Schnizz]

For many, many years out of the Churchill in SK, we would toss the walleye in a bucket whole/not gutted with no ice and many of them would sit in that bucket all day. Never had any issues. Now we generally try to get them on ice ... still whole and not gutted.

[calgarygringo]

Actually not true. I fish have fished several places that there is no size on pike as well as whites and perch with no size. Walleyes are about the only ones with size limits everywhere in Alberta except Pine Coulee this year with 3 of any size.

Originally Posted by 3blade

While I've done the stringer thing in the distant past and never got sick, once you taste the difference proper handling makes you will never do it again.

First up, all fish have to be able to be measured if you are transporting them. There are minimum size limits for every species of game fish somewhere in AB except for burbot.

Regardless if I'm planning shore lunch or take home, take a cooler with frozen pop bottles or ice packs. Bonk, cut out the gills to bleed, then gut. Put fish in cooler until ready to fillet and cook. So much better, especially summer pike and walleye. Only exception is mountain streams, if I decide to keep one it's killed, cleaned and cooked immediately with no storage.

Edit: regarding freezing, white fleshed fish (perch, pike, walleye) are good from frozen. Fresh is better, but not by much. I refuse to eat any trout or salmon that's been frozen. Mushy, fishy, just bad. I'm guessing by frozen whole you mean with the guts out. I would never consider eating a fish that had been frozen whole and thawed with the guts in.

[TylerThomson]

I'm looking to build a cooler live well but until then I use a stringer. Fish last more than enough hours on a stringer to be properly processed. When I leave the lake they all get bled and processed as soon as I get home which is usually in an hour or less. Never had a problem yet. Just cooked a pike on the bbq the other night and the meat came out firm and delicious.

Now if you are dragging a dead fish around for 5 hours I can see that being a problem.

[3blade]

Originally Posted by calgarygringo

Actually not true. I fish have fished several places that there is no size on pike as well as whites and perch with no size. Walleyes are about the only ones with size limits everywhere in Alberta except Pine Coulee this year with 3 of any size.

Read it again...I said somewhere. From the regs "....must not be skinned, cut or packed in a manner that: -the total length of every fish subject to a size limit cannot be determined" pg 25

It doesn't say 'every fish subject to a size limit in the water the angler is or was fishing'.

This is where CO's and F&W's have the opportunity to be (south end of horse facing north). If there is a size limit ANYWHERE in alberta, that species of fish must be able to be measured. Naturally the anglers response is 'well if I didn't catch it at the lake with a size limit, it doesn't matter and it'll be undersized or oversized anyway' but that's not the point. It's the fact that the fish must be able to be measured and identified. If it can't, you are in contravention of the regs and the fish will be seized and you will get a ticket, and you are hooped.

If they can be measured, the officer would have to prove to the judge that the fish were taken from a place with a size limit. Usually by DNA testing. They don't do this for fun as its expensive.

Yeah, I know, dyck move, but this is how things go sideways for honest people, by not paying attention.

[Mackinaw]

Originally Posted by EZM

I don't know exact times, and maybe there's a food scientist on the forum who could provide a better answer, but fish have a very very short window.

Pulling a dying fish around on a stringer in a warm lake and taking it back a few hours later to the fillet shack is too late already IMO.

If I ever plan on keeping fish to eat for the table I typically bring a cooler with ice on board and bonk/bleed them and put them on ice. They get cooled off quickly. The gills/guts should never be in a fish for more than a few hours. If the fish I caught, and kept is early in the day and I still have fishing to do, the guts and gills come out and on the ice it goes.

The difference in food quality between properly handled (fish or meat) versus fish that not been treated properly is HUGE.

Bleed them put them on ice is the only way ...why would anyone want to drag a fish around on a stringer in the middle of summer . I have a hundred litre igloo on my boat at all times.


Mack

[RavYak]

Originally Posted by Mackinaw

Bleed them put them on ice is the only way ...why would anyone want to drag a fish around on a stringer in the middle of summer . I have a hundred litre igloo on my boat at all times.


Mack

Think a 100 L cooler would fit on my kayak, in a canoe or on an inflatable pontoon etc?

Stringers make sense for some people and if you limit your time on the water or don't keep fish until later in the day they do the job fine.

Right into a cooler of ice is ideal but not always practical.

[TylerThomson]

Nope, mack said its the only way there rav.

I'm starting to notice a pattern with you Mack. Can I get your phone number so I can stop using the forum and just give you a call for the correct answers?

[Mackinaw]

Originally Posted by RavYak

Think a 100 L cooler would fit on my kayak, in a canoe or on an inflatable pontoon etc?

Stringers make sense for some people and if you limit your time on the water or don't keep fish until later in the day they do the job fine.

Right into a cooler of ice is ideal but not always practical.

Fished from a kayak long before it was the in thing to do fished from a pontoon and still fish the odd time from a float tube used a floating cooler for kayak and pontoon had a small cooler on back . Float tube i use an ice mule.
I like my fish to be fresh it is not that hard but it pays off.

Mack

[Mackinaw]

Originally Posted by TylerThomson

Nope, mack said its the only way there rav.

I'm starting to notice a pattern with you Mack. Can I get your phone number so I can stop using the forum and just give you a call for the correct answers?

I dont think it would do you any good . Some people cant be taught.

Have a nice day


Mack

[last minute]

Originally Posted by deepwater88

Two specific questions;
1. What is the rule of thumb for maximum time allowable to fillet a fish in the summer months? Obviously as soon as possible, but at temperatures +15-20 degrees Celsius at what point do you get major tainting of the fillets?
At what point have the fillets tainted to the point of potentially causing illness?
2. If you freeze fish whole and thaw and fillet, is there a noticable decline in fillet flavour and taste?

I realize these may be subjective answers but I am interested in your thoughts and guidelines around jack fish and walleye.
And again I realize ASAP and straight into the pan is best!

Thank you for your opinions.

the sooner the better why wait
for me i don't like to freeze fish so i don't worry about it

[Birchcraft]

Originally Posted by neilsledder

That's the best way but not always legal!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Under Alberta regulations would it be legal or make sense to just gut the fish on the lake, ie slit the bottom and remove all the guts and organs leaving you with the fish intact for length with the fillets and head remaining? Would this also help prevent spoilage?

[does it ALL outdoors]

Originally Posted by Birchcraft

Under Alberta regulations would it be legal or make sense to just gut the fish on the lake, ie slit the bottom and remove all the guts and organs leaving you with the fish intact for length with the fillets and head remaining? Would this also help prevent spoilage?

That's what I do for my one or two keepers a year. Gut em and throw em on ice right Chicken Charlie. Clean em when I get home and right into the pan they go

[neilsledder]

Originally Posted by Birchcraft

Under Alberta regulations would it be legal or make sense to just gut the fish on the lake, ie slit the bottom and remove all the guts and organs leaving you with the fish intact for length with the fillets and head remaining? Would this also help prevent spoilage?

Yes that's legal. But you can't fillet them, you need to do that at place of residence. But I do believe the guy I quoted was talking Saskatchewan, but I am not familiar with there regs.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[cube]

Originally Posted by deepwater88

Two specific questions;
1. What is the rule of thumb for maximum time allowable to fillet a fish in the summer months? Obviously as soon as possible, but at temperatures +15-20 degrees Celsius at what point do you get major tainting of the fillets?
At what point have the fillets tainted to the point of potentially causing illness?
2. If you freeze fish whole and thaw and fillet, is there a noticable decline in fillet flavour and taste?

I realize these may be subjective answers but I am interested in your thoughts and guidelines around jack fish and walleye.
And again I realize ASAP and straight into the pan is best!

Thank you for your opinions.

Given the Commercial fishing regs for Alberta were;

"Setting of gill net requirements
58(1) (a) at least once each day after the day it is set if the net is set
in water that is not covered with ice,
(b) at least once every 48 hours after it is set if the net is set in
ice-covered water

I would say you have a number of hours before the fish would go bad. Check net next day then time to transport to processing area then time to process.

I would say you should have no problem with processing previously frozen fish as commercial fishermen here in the west would, during the winter I expect, do this routinely. I have known a few fishermen who have done that during the fall open water (ie take them home freeze them whole and then fillet them a number of days latter) and said they were just fine.

I am also sure that smaller commercial fishermen on the coast will not have the entire catch fully processed for quite a few hours. Again net soak time plus pulling time times the number of net sets plus transport back to the processing plant plus time to process.

The British regs say that after a fish has gone through rigger and soften again the meat is still sweet and good.

Fish do not have the same level of gut normal flora as terrestrial animals so again tainting would probably take longer.

As for cleaning your fish on the lake. If your going to do that make sure you take out as much of the kidney (bloody looking stuff right along the back bone) as possible and probably the gills as well. The kidney is a major place for bad bacteria to set up and as soon as you open the fish up you risk contaminating it. If you watch the smaller commercial guys on the coast when processing at sea they remove all the kidney guts and gills but do not open between the pectoral fins to keep the cavity from fully opening and lessen the contamination to the open cavity area.

I am not sure that cleaning on the lakes here is strictly legal. Some officers say they would charge you with littering and others say it's fine. I do think however that the eutrophic lakes we have here do not need any further nutrients in them, rather they would benefit from the removal of entrails on shore in the proper disposal. Now in nutrient poor lakes, like high mountain lakes I'm sure they would benefit from having the nutrients returned.

[EZM]

The other thing to consider is that there is a distinction between "spoiled" versus "high quality meat".

You can have unspoiled and "safe" fish that's been out too long or not properly handled that is poor food quality. It's mushy, tastes fishy and stinks like fish.

In my mind, it's about getting the best tasting (and, of course, safe and unspoiled) meat from the game you harvest. If you ever catch a fish out of cold water and handle it properly and put it on ice - there is hardly any fish smell at all.

[cube]

Originally Posted by EZM

The other thing to consider is that there is a distinction between "spoiled" versus "high quality meat".

You can have unspoiled and "safe" fish that's been out too long or not properly handled that is poor food quality. It's mushy, tastes fishy and stinks like fish.

In my mind, it's about getting the best tasting (and, of course, safe and unspoiled) meat from the game you harvest. If you ever catch a fish out of cold water and handle it properly and put it on ice - there is hardly any fish smell at all.

I Totally agree with you as does the OP. But that was not the OP's question.

Originally Posted by deepwater88

Two specific questions;
1. What is the rule of thumb for maximum time allowable to fillet a fish in the summer months? Obviously as soon as possible, but at temperatures +15-20 degrees Celsius at what point do you get major tainting of the fillets?
At what point have the fillets tainted to the point of potentially causing illness?
2. If you freeze fish whole and thaw and fillet, is there a noticable decline in fillet flavour and taste?

I realize these may be subjective answers but I am interested in your thoughts and guidelines around jack fish and walleye.
And again I realize ASAP and straight into the pan is best!

Thank you for your opinions.

I would say the best method would probably be catch fish immediately bonk fish on head, cut major arteries letting fish bleed out while your warming up the cooking gear. Have fished all cleaned by the time the pan is hot and away you go.

Second best is probably live well for short period of time then repeat as above if fish species can tolerate the warm temps well.

Third I would say is bonk on head (or Iki jime) and blead. Then gut, gill, etc an place on ice or flash freeze.
This though is some times not practical. I usually do not have access to large quantities of ice when I go on extended trips in a number of places I go and I imagine this might be true for others. Not to mention when I used to go with my uncle there would be 4 of us in a 12 ft tinner so not a lot of room for cooler if ice. Though I must say the fish seemed to taste fine after we cleaned them at the end of the day.

Now I mostly catch and release but do have one or two very fresh fish a year. All the rest I send back so you and others can have the fun and excitement I had.

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by bat119

I have a filleting board on my boat, fish that can't be released are cleaned and put on ice ASAP. I shudder when I see guys cleaning faded fish with rigor already set in.

I hear ya but we gotta show the whole fish, entire length here...in Saskatchewan use to fillet them up, leave a hunk of skin on it for proof of species but most got eaten as a shore lunch

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by RavYak

Think a 100 L cooler would fit on my kayak, in a canoe or on an inflatable pontoon etc?

Stringers make sense for some people and if you limit your time on the water or don't keep fish until later in the day they do the job fine.

Right into a cooler of ice is ideal but not always practical.

I have dragged a lot of fish on a stringer beside my canoe and enjoyed them for supper...now I'm hungry again

[TylerThomson]

Well thought out response cube. Best I've read in this thread