F&W Searching my camp site etc!!!!

[topgun2269]

They cant come in my house without a search warrant ,why would I want them in my camp site without one??? I hunt and fish by the rules, so they better have proof of illegal activity or I will see them in court. It has nothing to do with weather I am guilty or not. It has to do with me enjoying my weekend and not having someone like fish and game making me feel like a criminal because some moron thinks I did something wrong!!!!!! I agree with the report a poacher etc. I dont agree with someone "thinking" they saw something that they did not. I have never had a negative issue with F&W ever as I consider myself to be an ethical hunter. So, if I am camping with my family come on over and pull me aside. "don't embarrass me in front of my family, unless you have 100% proof. Simply put..if you have proof than good for you thats why we have the phone lines. If you dont..shut up and try to enjoy your weekend without trying to ruin someone else's.


"JUST MY BANG FOR MY BUCK"

[Okotokian]

Nice rant. Now what actually happened? What did they say, what did they want. And anyone can come up to you and ask a question.

[topgun2269]

My message is just a response to the other thread on here that was getting way to long to scroll..lol

[Okotokian]

Oooooohhhhhhhhh

so a theoretical rant. The best type.

[Donkey Oatey]

Your house is your castle, not a campsite. /end

[Okotokian]

Originally Posted by Donkey Oatey

Your house is your castle, not a campsite. /end

Not always true. For some folks their house is their campsite.

[Donkey Oatey]

Originally Posted by Okotokian

Not always true. For some folks their house is their campsite.

Just cause their house is on wheels does not make it a campsite

[Guitarplayingfish]

Actually, as soon as you set up in a campsite it is a temporary living area... It must be treated as a place of residence, and F&W cannot just do whatever they want.. Hence why drinking in a campsite is not "drinking in public".

It's all about Reasonable belief...for example, If you are icefishing and have a cooler beside you and F&W comes up and checks out the fish you have laying on the ice, they have no reason to check your cooler whether it has more fish in it or not.. There has to be reasonable belief.. If there was a scale on the cooler or blood on/around it, they would have every right to check it out.. If it was bare, it could be filled with beer or drugs or an illegal amount of fish and they have no right to check it unless you directly give them permission.

Our system is confusing, to say the least.

[Donkey Oatey]

Originally Posted by Guitarplayingfish

Actually, as soon as you set up in a campsite it is a temporary living area... It must be treated as a place of residence, and F&W cannot just do whatever they want.. Hence why drinking in a campsite is not "drinking in public".

It's all about Reasonable belief...for example, If you are icefishing and have a cooler beside you and F&W comes up and checks out the fish you have laying on the ice, they have no reason to check your cooler whether it has more fish in it or not.. There has to be reasonable belief.. If there was a scale on the cooler or blood on/around it, they would have every right to check it out.. If it was bare, it could be filled with beer or drugs or an illegal amount of fish and they have no right to check it unless you directly give them permission.

Our system is confusing, to say the least.

I would say you are partly right. Once set up yes you can drink because it is a temporary residence. But like your house in the city the cops or F&W can come on to your lawn and prosecute you for anything in plain sight. (Plain sight tenant). Can't search your tent or camper without warrant or if it meets the provisions for a search without a warrant.

Fishing on the ice and have a cooler right there and fish on the ice would be enough grounds to allow for an inspection of the cooler. Your purse, I think would be a bit of a stretch. Fish are kept in coolers, not in purses. I don't think there is any real expectation of privacy when it comes to a cooler on the ice, sorry. Same as if you are fishing the officers can search your tackle box for items that would be prohibited for fishing without a warrant. Cab of truck would be a stretch I think.

[canadiantdi]

Originally Posted by Donkey Oatey

I would say you are partly right. Once set up yes you can drink because it is a temporary residence. But like your house in the city the cops or F&W can come on to your lawn and prosecute you for anything in plain sight. (Plain sight tenant). Can't search your tent or camper without warrant or if it meets the provisions for a search without a warrant.

Fishing on the ice and have a cooler right there and fish on the ice would be enough grounds to allow for an inspection of the cooler. Your purse, I think would be a bit of a stretch. Fish are kept in coolers, not in purses. I don't think there is any real expectation of privacy when it comes to a cooler on the ice, sorry. Same as if you are fishing the officers can search your tackle box for items that would be prohibited for fishing without a warrant. Cab of truck would be a stretch I think.

I agree!

[Guitarplayingfish]

Fishing on the ice and have a cooler right there and fish on the ice would be enough grounds to allow for an inspection of the cooler. Your purse, I think would be a bit of a stretch. Fish are kept in coolers, not in purses. I don't think there is any real expectation of privacy when it comes to a cooler on the ice, sorry. Same as if you are fishing the officers can search your tackle box for items that would be prohibited for fishing without a warrant. Cab of truck would be a stretch I think.[/QUOTE]

No, It wouldn't be.. I Just took a law course and was told that straight from an ex-CO's mouth.

If someone called in and said that there was fish in the cooler or if the cooler was right beside the fish than yeah, but if the fish are outside your tent and your cooler is inside the tent there would be no reasonable grounds to search it unless there are signs of blood/scales,slime/ etc. An officer has no right to search your tackle box without consent... Thats like saying an officer can go through your ALL your hooks until they find a barbed hook (say you just bought it, new) and he could fine you for having it. I don't think so man.

[canadiantdi]

Originally Posted by Guitarplayingfish

Fishing on the ice and have a cooler right there and fish on the ice would be enough grounds to allow for an inspection of the cooler. Your purse, I think would be a bit of a stretch. Fish are kept in coolers, not in purses. I don't think there is any real expectation of privacy when it comes to a cooler on the ice, sorry. Same as if you are fishing the officers can search your tackle box for items that would be prohibited for fishing without a warrant. Cab of truck would be a stretch I think.

No, It wouldn't be.. I Just took a law course and was told that straight from an ex-CO's mouth.

If someone called in and said that there was fish in the cooler or if the cooler was right beside the fish than yeah, but if the fish are outside your tent and your cooler is inside the tent there would be no reasonable grounds to search it unless there are signs of blood/scales,slime/ etc. An officer has no right to search your tackle box without consent... Thats like saying an officer can go through your ALL your hooks until they find a barbed hook (say you just bought it, new) and he could fine you for having it. I don't think so man.

So all it takes for F&W to search is an anonymous phone call? Did the ex-CO say this?

[uplander]

As with normal laws you may be prosecuted for anything illegal or against the rules in plain sight and as already said if there's blood on or near the ice ( if it's catch and release only of course or a lake with special rules) they can search what they want. If an officer has reasonable grounds to believe your hiding something then he can search without warrant.

If you have nothing to hide let him look your just gonna make him look like a fool anyways. And if you have something to hide well you should make sure it's covered up good or else your hooped.

So just like RCMPs if they pull you over and your car smells like weed or your breath smells like liquor and you fail the tests he provides he can search your car. Or wait for a k9 to come, kind of the same thing for fishing I guess.

[Donkey Oatey]

Originally Posted by Guitarplayingfish

No, It wouldn't be.. I Just took a law course and was told that straight from an ex-CO's mouth.

If someone called in and said that there was fish in the cooler or if the cooler was right beside the fish than yeah, but if the fish are outside your tent and your cooler is inside the tent there would be no reasonable grounds to search it unless there are signs of blood/scales,slime/ etc. An officer has no right to search your tackle box without consent... Thats like saying an officer can go through your ALL your hooks until they find a barbed hook (say you just bought it, new) and he could fine you for having it. I don't think so man.

Ok is this tent an ice fishing shack that is not used for sleeping? Then it is not a dwelling house and a search without a warrant is allowed. If it is a sleeping tent then no they would not be able to search the tent without a warrant.

Possession of a barbed hook is not illegal. Using one is. Now if you were on a lake with a bait ban and had bait then you are screwed. Or if you are fishing in the National Parks and have lead weights you are screwed.

Comes down to context man. We can what if this to death but having a complaint of possible illegal activity gives a little more power of search and seizure. I was looking up case law on it and an anonymous complaint is not enough to get a search warrant for a dwelling house it allows for on the spot checks of everything else.

The Fisheries Act also allows for the stopping of vehicles and the search of them if they are involved in potentially illegal activities. The only sacred thing we have is our homes. Those are supposed to be inviolate.

[BBT]

Originally Posted by topgun2269

My message is just a response to the other thread on here that was getting way to long to scroll..lol

Shoot I thought this was going to be another PC or RCMP bashing thread.
I'm just happy that it's only a FW bashing thread

[greylynx]

I had some forestry people go trough my campsite at Ram River a couple of years ago. There was no justifiable reason for doing it.

After getting home I placed a phone call to the ADM's office in Edmonton.

Within half an hour I had the big kahuna from Nordegg phoning me and apologizing.

[duffy4]

but if the fish are outside your tent and your cooler is inside the tent there would be no reasonable grounds

You kind of changed things, now the cooler is inside the tent.

Pretty hard to give all the details in a hypothetical situation.

If an officer saw people going in and out of the tent while they were also ice fishing near by they may suspect that fish were being moved into the tent. And so have resonable grounds to have a look.

In the end the officer may have to explain their "resonable grounds" decision to a judge who will decide if he accepts it.

[Isopod]

Easy solution, just follow all the rules and then let them search whatever they want because you haven't done anything wrong.

[canadiantdi]

Originally Posted by Isopod

Easy solution, just follow all the rules and then let them search whatever they want because you haven't done anything wrong.

Is it not obvious that the point isn't whether you've done something wrong?

[Redfrog]

Originally Posted by Isopod

Easy solution, just follow all the rules and then let them search whatever they want because you haven't done anything wrong.

Your rights don't depend on whether you have or have not done something wrong. They are still your rights.

That crap about "if you have done nothing wrong" is just that so much crap.

[canadiantdi]

Originally Posted by Redfrog

Your rights don't depend on whether you have or have not done something wrong. They are still your rights.

That crap about "if you have done nothing wrong" is just that so much crap.

Rights and freedoms are hard to get but easy to lose. It is a shame that so many people are willing to let them go to make someone elses job easier!

[greylynx]

Originally Posted by Isopod

Easy solution, just follow all the rules and then let them search whatever they want because you haven't done anything wrong.

May I suggest you read the famous quotation by Martin Niemoller.

[cory3006]

If you have nothing to hide, you should be happy to see F&W out doing their job protecting what we all love. If you don't want to deal with them, stay at home, they have a job to do and it's nice to see that they are getting out of the office and actually doing what our licensing costs are going towards. Maybe you weren't doing anything wrong, but what if the next time the person they check is. Plus it's the perfect opportunity to teach kids, the future of our sport, that if you haven't done anything wrong that there's nothing to fear, that F&W is just doing their job to protect our resource.

[canadiantdi]

Originally Posted by cory3006

If you have nothing to hide, you should be happy to see F&W out doing their job protecting what we all love. If you don't want to deal with them, stay at home, they have a job to do and it's nice to see that they are getting out of the office and actually doing what our licensing costs are going towards. Maybe you weren't doing anything wrong, but what if the next time the person they check is. Plus it's the perfect opportunity to teach kids, the future of our sport, that if you haven't done anything wrong that there's nothing to fear, that F&W is just doing their job to protect our resource.

With this attitude, why do we even need section 8 of the charter of rights? We should just allow the government to search us at any time. It shouldn't matter if you have nothing to hide right?

We should just stay home if we don't want to be searched right? lol.

[Isopod]

LOL, too much tetosterone on this thread. When I go fishing I do it to have a good time and relax. CO comes up and wants to check my stuff I cooperate fully. Wants to look in my cooler, sure, why not? When they see I'm cooperative and not getting in their face about my rights and whether they have warrants, blah, blah, they keep it friendly, and we both continue our day happy. You guys can confront them and then come here and rant about it if you want, to each their own.

[OttCan]

So if a CO stops you and you have tackle...IN YOUR TACKLE BOX...and there are hooks that are still barbed, a CO can still issue you a fine for tackle that is barbed, eventhough they are not being used??

[canadiantdi]

Originally Posted by Isopod

LOL, too much tetosterone on this thread. When I go fishing I do it to have a good time and relax. CO comes up and wants to check my stuff I cooperate fully. Wants to look in my cooler, sure, why not? When they see I'm cooperative and not getting in their face about my rights and whether they have warrants, blah, blah, they keep it friendly, and we both continue our day happy. You guys can confront them and then come here and rant about it if you want, to each their own.

Exercising our rights has nothing to do with being a big man.

[canadiantdi]

Originally Posted by OttCan

So if a CO stops you and you have tackle...IN YOUR TACKLE BOX...and there are hooks that are still barbed, a CO can still issue you a fine for tackle that is barbed, eventhough they are not being used??

I don't think barbed hooks are illegal to own, just to use in Alberta.

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by uplander

if an officer has reasonable grounds to believe your hiding something then he can search without warrant.

bingo!

[canadiantdi]

Originally Posted by HunterDave

bingo!

So what exactly constitutes reasonable grounds though? An eye witness? An anonymous phone call? etc... I am all for allowing a LEGAL search if required, as I don't keep ANY fish, I am just interested in learning my rights.