Letter to the ministers to reduce draw wait times.

[baz]

I am with you on principle for pretty much all of your proposals.
LC has a very valid point about resident status and this has to be changed and a means to properly enforce it as well.
My kids have to purchase their own draws and tags after they turn 18 if they want to hunt, it is a method that I find ensures they are committed. To date none of my boys complain about it at all. If a young adult can put the cash together for something they enjoy, I am sure an adult can do the same.
Baz

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

My truck was built in 2004

....and it has AC

LC

You "elitist"!

Oh and mine has AC as well. It just doesn't work.

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by baz

I am with you on principle for pretty much all of your proposals.
LC has a very valid point about resident status and this has to be changed and a means to properly enforce it as well.
My kids have to purchase their own draws and tags after they turn 18 if they want to hunt, it is a method that I find ensures they are committed. To date none of my boys complain about it at all. If a young adult can put the cash together for something they enjoy, I am sure an adult can do the same.
Baz

Exactly!

[Loper]

While you are at it write your insurance company to increase your premiums so you can get your claims handled faster.

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by Loper

While you are at it write your insurance company to increase your premiums so you can get your claims handled faster.

On that note, how much do you pay for insurance a year? How about the cell phone?

I will also bet you the cost of your first $250 bull Elk tag that with 20 minutes on the phone you will find a way to decrease your insurance costs by at least that amount in the time it takes you to draw the tag!

[Okotokian]

Need a little more thought before you fire this off.

Originally Posted by chuck

1. Increase draw application fees with a suggestion of $10. This will insure those that feel the need to apply for themselves, their dog, their wife, and their aunt Gertrude just because they can to cover all bases and see what they can draw for will at least think about it first. And maybe they will decide what species they really want to hunt. It will also encourage a bit of research into the tag being applied for..

This is a serious letter. You saying people apply under their dog's name? What difference does it make if relatives of the person apply? The fellow can't use his aunt gertrudes draw or license. How does this offer anyone any advantage? This line of thinking makes no sense.

Originally Posted by chuck

2. Increase tag fees for special licence "trophy" animals with a suggestion to start at $150. This will also ensure a second thought on what they want to hunt as well. It will also have me personally staggering draws to stay married and solvent. ..

Glad you are willing to take yourself out of the line-up to allow those hunters with more cash in their jeans than you to continue to apply for all the draws they want. Make it $1000 per license and get the wait times down even more.

Originally Posted by chuck

3. Either a mandatory purchase of the tag successfully drawn for within a certain time frame or a mandatory requirement to leave a CC # at the time of application and the automatic purchase upon successful application..

Actually think this idea is fine. You get drawn, you get charged.

Originally Posted by chuck

4. The mandatory reporting of harvest or non harvest and use of your tag. You will have to report within 30 days of the close of your season or will automatically forfeit your ability to apply for any draw or purchase of any tag the following year. If you forget, to bad, and you likely won't do it twice.

Not sure what this does. If you didn't bother to hunt, you would just say you were unsuccesful. No one wuld be the wiser. The only person this penalizes is the forgetful guy who might be totally honest and have hunted hard. It serves no purpose.

Strikes me that the real issue is your contention that people apply for, and are granted draws, without really being serious about hunting them, with the end result that a lot of draws are left on the table unused. First of all, I'm not sure you have evidence that this is a really wide-spread problem. I wouldn't change a system because "my buddy said he heard that somebody..."
Secondly, if this is a real issue, I would assume that ESRD takes this into account whenn they set draw numbers. A WMU harvest number might assume a 20% non-license purchase rate. IF you built a system to ensure that every draw was followed up with a purchase and hunted, the likely result would be that they would simply lower the draw numbers to compensate.

[damn_missed_again]

What about those people who are also paying for their children to hunt? I have three young boys who will all be hunting while under my roof! It not fair to me to make me pay thousands of dollars in application fees and then "trophy licenses" so you can try and reduce your wait times! I deserve the right to have affordable hunting experiences with my sons and the access to Alberta's animals as much as you deserve yearly trophy sheep hunts! Sure there are problems with Alberta's draw systems.....I don't see your solutions making them any better. Just my opinion.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by Red Bullets

Should only be able to 999 a draw for one year. Also, there needs to be a gradient system that keeps first time hunters from even applying for draws. A person should have at least a couple years of hunting experience before being given the opportunity for a draw.

Those are the least sensible suggestions that I have read on the topic.

[antlerguy]

When I said promoting our sport I mean if it takes a P15 to get drawn in that zone it takes almost all that (it is a draw system - no guarantees) for everyone who applies. Level playing field. If you raises prices like you proposed this would take out certain folks that maybe are not as well off as others. Thus making it an uneven playing field for folks that do not earn as much or otherwise. It is not that I am against an increase, just more like what Lefty suggested. Like I stated I understand to frustrations of long wait times. You could always go to another wmu with lower wait times as I don't see being a p15 and not getting drawn as average waiting.

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by Okotokian

Need a little more thought before you fire this off.


This is a serious letter. You saying people apply under their dog's name? What difference does it make if relatives of the person apply? The fellow can't use his aunt gertrudes draw or license. How does this offer anyone any advantage? This line of thinking makes no sense.

This is a draft. Thanks for the suggestion. I'll change it to uncle Buck. Rest assured that this is not that far fetched.


Glad you are willing to take yourself out of the line-up to allow those hunters with more cash in their jeans than you to continue to apply for all the draws they want. Make it $1000 per license and get the wait times down even more.

Have you ever heard of price elasticity? It will seek it's own level.



Actually think this idea is fine. You get drawn, you get charged.



Not sure what this does. If you didn't bother to hunt, you would just say you were unsuccesful. No one wuld be the wiser. The only person this penalizes is the forgetful guy who might be totally honest and have hunted hard. It serves no purpose.

It will make the Biologist accountable for tag allocations.

Does that help?

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by damn_missed_again

What about those people who are also paying for their children to hunt? I have three young boys who will all be hunting while under my roof! It not fair to me to make me pay thousands of dollars in application fees and then "trophy licenses" so you can try and reduce your wait times! I deserve the right to have affordable hunting experiences with my sons and the access to Alberta's animals as much as you deserve yearly trophy sheep hunts! Sure there are problems with Alberta's draw systems.....I don't see your solutions making them any better. Just my opinion.

I have three young children as well. This is the point of the change. Prioritize what draws are most important to you.

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by antlerguy

When I said promoting our sport I mean if it takes a P15 to get drawn in that zone it takes almost all that (it is a draw system - no guarantees) for everyone who applies. Level playing field. If you raises prices like you proposed this would take out certain folks that maybe are not as well off as others. Thus making it an uneven playing field for folks that do not earn as much or otherwise. It is not that I am against an increase, just more like what Lefty suggested. Like I stated I understand to frustrations of long wait times. You could always go to another wmu with lower wait times as I don't see being a p15 and not getting drawn as average waiting.

This takes out people who feel that hunting Bull Moose is not a $10 priority to them. That is exactly why it is being proposed.

[ksteed17]

Originally Posted by chuck

I'm going to send a letter to the Minister of SRD and Finance in regards to wait times for draws. I have the support of several like minded individuals and will be getting their signatures on the letter. If anyone has a suggestion on any additions let me know. Here are the points I will be making or requesting a change to.

1. Increase draw application fees with a suggestion of $10. This will insure those that feel the need to apply for themselves, their dog, their wife, and their aunt Gertrude just because they can to cover all bases and see what they can draw for will at least think about it first. And maybe they will decide what species they really want to hunt. It will also encourage a bit of research into the tag being applied for.

I agree with this. $3 is cheap although would be nice to see the money go to conservation not some government pot

2. Increase tag fees for special licence "trophy" animals with a suggestion to start at $150. This will also ensure a second thought on what they want to hunt as well. It will also have me personally staggering draws to stay married and solvent. This in and of itself will decrease wait times. Despite the opinion of the 999 detractors. Again, this will also encourage a bit of research into the tag being applied for.

I don't like this one as much.

3. Either a mandatory purchase of the tag successfully drawn for within a certain time frame or a mandatory requirement to leave a CC # at the time of application and the automatic purchase upon successful application.

I'm 100% for this one.

4. The mandatory reporting of harvest or non harvest and use of your tag. You will have to report within 30 days of the close of your season or will automatically forfeit your ability to apply for any draw or purchase of any tag the following year. If you forget, to bad, and you likely won't do it twice.

This would be great for knowing statistics but as we've learned already on here is people lie when asked these questions cause they know better than the bios do...

[Okotokian]

Originally Posted by Red Bullets

Also, there needs to be a gradient system that keeps first time hunters from even applying for draws. A person should have at least a couple years of hunting experience before being given the opportunity for a draw.

Scratching my head over this one. Why? A new hunter isn't stealing anything from a more experienced hunter. They have a priority of zero. Who is conceivably hurt by giving them a tag? "Hey new hunter, you want to go hunting mule deer with your Dad? Not so fast kid. We don't care that there are lots of tags. You aren't getting one."

[damn_missed_again]

Originally Posted by chuck

I have three young children as well. This is the point of the change. Prioritize what draws are most important to you.

I shouldn't have to miss out on opportunities though. I still don't see your solutions as fair and reasonable. The priority system as it is now at least provides an even playing field, your solution would not make it that.

[elkslayer132]

What a joke they are all garbage can't believe people would even come up with this.

[dmcbride]

Is $10.00 really that expensive for a draw. Anyone been to the movies lately? And in all reality is $150.00 really that expensive for a sport that can last for as long as the season is open. Some places charge this much for a game of golf that lasts like 4 hours. Other than gas, weapon of choice hunting is dirt cheap compared to all other sports.
Some people will say that hunting isn't a sport and is part of our heritage. Well like it or not it is becoming a sport with rules and restrictions. And this is starting with the banning of certain traditional weapons. So we might as well all get with the times.

[Okotokian]

Originally Posted by chuck

Does that help?

Not really. If I get my aunt or uncle to apply for a draw, how does that help me? Really, I'm asking a serious question. I don't get it.

Price elasticity, finding it's own level? License costs are not elastic. The government sets the price. There is no auction or market. If you want the market to decide you would have to let people sell their licenses to the highest bidder. You are advocating pricing some people out of applying for the hunts they are serious about pursuing. You said yourself that you would have to ration your own hunting.

With regard to your last point, you are really just advocatng mandatory reporting to assist biologists. OK, can see that. But that initiative has nothing to do with your concern that people are somehow fudging with the system and putting in for draws they will never hunt.

[hal53]

Originally Posted by ksteed17

This would be great for knowing statistics but as we've learned already on here is people lie when asked these questions cause they know better than the bios do...

Does no one here know where the draw fees go now??, wow!!! I cannot believe this thread, everybody says change is need but... "all you guys change what you do and leave me alone".....would be funny , if it wasn't so sad..... especially the part about refuting increased prices under the guise that "the Gov't gets enough of my money now", what a joke.....

[antlerguy]

2. Increase tag fees for special licence "trophy" animals with a suggestion to start at $150. This will also ensure a second thought on what they want to hunt as well. It will also have me personally staggering draws to stay married and solvent. This in and of itself will decrease wait times. Despite the opinion of the 999 detractors. Again, this will also encourage a bit of research into the tag being applied for.

This is what I was referring to not the $10 application fee.

[ksteed17]

Originally Posted by hal53

Does no one here know where the draw fees go now??, wow!!! I cannot believe this thread, everybody says change is need but... "all you guys change what you do and leave me alone".....would be funny , if it wasn't so sad..... especially the part about refuting increased prices under the guise that "the Gov't gets enough of my money now", what a joke.....

This post makes absolute no sense and as usual adds nothing to the thread. Please try again

[hal53]

Originally Posted by ksteed17

This post makes absolute no sense and as usual adds nothing to the thread. Please try again

1) where does the money go now that you pay for draws?...hint:, not the Gov't
2) read them all ksteed and everyone pretty much sees the need for some changes.....just don't change anything I do now....all you other guys should change though is the underlying theme?, or am I missing something
3) the last point was meant to say that anytime any increases are mentioned, a certain portion trot out the tired remarks that they pay enough already....
sorry, have 2 computers going and a cell phone......

[coolpete1]

why not have everyone not born in alberta only allowed general tags i could hunt moose every year.

[ksteed17]

Originally Posted by hal53

1) where does the money go now that you pay for draws?...hint:, not the Gov't
2) read them all ksteed and everyone pretty much sees the need for some changes.....just don't change anything I do now....all you other guys should change though is the underlying theme?, or am I missing something
3) the last point was meant to say that anytime any increases are mentioned, a certain portion trot out the tired remarks that they pay enough already....
sorry, have 2 computers going and a cell phone......

Yes I know the government doesn't get the money from the draw apps it goes to the company running the program. What I'm saying is if they're making a profit on a $3 app then if the government raises it to $10 then the $7 extra would be nice to see it put to use somewhere valuable. I agree there needs to be change that's what I'm saying, and I know it will affect me and if these changes happened I believe it would be for the better, do you not agree there needs change? I'm confused where you stand. And I never said I think we paid enough already in my post I said I thought an increase in app fees was a good idea and that automatically charging your CC was also a good idea.

[RDW]

Originally Posted by chuck

How is waiting for 15 years to draw a bull Moose tag promoting our sport?

Just looked through the 2014 draw summary report i think i saw about 5 zones with a wait that long as far as i can see there is more than enough moose hunting opportunity you just have to stray from the same zone you have been hunting for the last 30 years.

As for other draw wait times there are some states and provinces who have the best hunting on lottery draw and some don't draw one tag in there lifetime.

Just having the chance to shoot more than one trophy bighorn sheep in my life time makes me feel fortunate.

150$ per tag is ridiculous i have more than one hunting buddy who could not afford that extra expense that would be a shame.

[ksteed17]

Originally Posted by RDW

Just looked through the 2014 draw summary report i think i saw about 5 zones with a wait that long as far as i can see there is more than enough moose hunting opportunity you just have to stray from the same zone you have been hunting for the last 30 years.

As for other draw wait times there are some states and provinces who have the best hunting on lottery draw and some don't draw one tag in there lifetime.

Just having the chance to shoot more than one trophy bighorn sheep in my life time makes me feel fortunate.

150$ per tag is ridiculous i have more than one hunting buddy who could not afford that extra expense that would be a shame.

Look at the priorities 4 and lower and you will see that in a few short years almost all tags will be a huge wait time.

[hal53]

Originally Posted by ksteed17

Yes I know the government doesn't get the money from the draw apps it goes to the company running the program. What I'm saying is if they're making a profit on a $3 app then if the government raises it to $10 then the $7 extra would be nice to see it put to use somewhere valuable. I agree there needs to be change that's what I'm saying, and I know it will affect me and if these changes happened I believe it would be for the better, do you not agree there needs change? I'm confused where you stand. And I never said I think we paid enough already in my post I said I thought an increase in app fees was a good idea and that automatically charging your CC was also a good idea.

as much as you think of yourself there is over 50 posts on here already, you were not the only one to comment about where the draw fee money goes, and my remarks were not directed at you. Where do I stand?, I have posted it many times, max 3 draw apps per year, increased fees for draws that goes to SRD , not general funds, and you can only 999 for 2 consecutive years

[calgarychef]

Raising the price of applying just prices some folks out of hunting, not a great thing to start because eventually "you'll" be priced out too.

I'm all for the mandatory purchase of licences that have been drawn for though. This means that people actually have to use the tag they've been allocated.

[LBB]

I am totally against paid hunting, because I believe everyone that wants to hunt shouldn't be restricted by money. Increasing draws etc does the same thing, there are a lot of youth that wouldn't be able to afford the draws. If drawing a tag and you can't go this might work. If the draw is for 50 tags, 65 people are drawing, the first 50 are awarded the tag. If tags are not purchased by certain date the waiting list gets to purchase them .

[Deer Hunter]

Originally Posted by ksteed17

Look at the priorities 4 and lower and you will see that in a few short years almost all tags will be a huge wait time.

You've got that right. Hunters usually just look in the rear view figuring that it took 3 years for my mule buck last time it will be that again. Or antelope was 8 years last time....
Wrong.
The waves of new applicants that have applied in the past 5 years will create much longer wait times than we've been used to for most animals.
This is just the tip of the iceberg on draw wait times.
Upping the price on anything in alberta has generally proven to have little effect on demand. Why do you think everyone is moving here? Money and the hunting...