Hunting dogs or dogs hunting??

[FCLightning]

Originally Posted by Nait Hadya

i thought your question to be rhetorical. "NO advangate hunting big game"??

i would support the hunting of bears,wolves,coyotes,fox,cougar,lynx,bobcat,
ducks,geese,pheasants,grouse,rabbit,hare,with K9's. did i leave any out?

Elk, moose. deer? Why should they be excluded/included?

[Nait Hadya]

Originally Posted by FCLightning

Elk, moose. deer? Why should they be excluded/included?

don't want to digress to far from the topic, might get banned fur hyjacking a thread.....

[Pudelpointer]

Originally Posted by Pudelpointer

How did that cougar get in the tree in your avatar? Are you assuming that all dogs run wild like those hounds?

This was the question, as indicated by the choice of punctuation.

Your earlier (and continued) argument appears to be that your hound will lead you right to a full curl ram, spot it for you, distract it long enough for you to take a shot, indicate the yardage and appropriate holdover and wind correction, and carry your tripod shooting system and rifle up the steep spots, and pack at least 2 quarters for you off the mountain.

In case you missed it, that is somewhat rhetorical sarcasm - since those are all things one would expect from a licensed hard working guide; or should they be illegal as well? (rhetorical)

In reality, YOUR dog may help you hunt for bighorn sheep, but most will hinder such a hunt. What about horses? They carry more then a dog, indicate the presence of game (ears), etc. Personally I hate watching people ride past me on their big four footed unfair advantage, so I think we should ban them too. Yup, more sarcasm.

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Wow, sorry about that. My female ghost writer (I just found out she not only moonlights as a journalist, but for SH as well!) was covering for me while I ran some errands.

However, Nait, I would think that you, as a hound owner, would be trying to expand the role and acceptability of dogs used in hunting. Many people see hunting with hounds for ANY animal as unethical, yet you appear to be echoing many of the same beliefs (i.e. it's an unfair advantage, the hunted animal doesn't stand a chance, the dogs are chasing and killing every animal out there).

I will support your future ability to hunt cats with your hounds, how about supporting guys who want there dog along in grizz country, regardless of what they are hunting?

[Okotokian]

Question: Is it legal to let my dog run free on crown land while I am grouse hunting? Not in a Provincial or wildland park, though you can apparently get permission for the latter. I'm just talking about regular green area land. I had always thought you could but when we had the discussion about dogs and traps it seemed maybe you couldn't. That would pretty much limit bird hunting with dogs to private land. Please say it isn't true!

[Nait Hadya]

Originally Posted by Pudelpointer

blahblahblah...most will hinder such a hunt...blahblahblah

therefore..... if they would hinder your hunt(someone elses) why would we want them there. there are laws on the books that allow the prosecution of persons interferring with the enjoyment of a hunt...would we have to add k9's to the law as well?

Originally Posted by Nait Hadya

i have seen this type of overreaction to constructive debate before. it usually comes from a feminine corespondent, who has lost a debate and resorts to personal attacks. ghostwriter? lost your mind? agree with me and my opinion or i will attack your hunting? is this who the hunters of alberta have chosen to speak for them? defend their rights? or was this your way of launching a public campaign to remove the hunting rights of alberta hunters? just a few questions.....

LOL

Truthfully I find those that rely solely on Reductio ad absurdum to make a point typically seem to not recognize it as a counterpopint......funny.

Had a great day running cats today. Shared your little fairytale of dogs assisting with the sheep hunt. Actually wished I wouldn`t have when the driver neary drove off a cliff laughing so hard. Made for some good laughs over lunch anyhow.

[Nait Hadya]

how much could this pack dog carry? i am sure it can't carry enough food and water to sustain itself for 10 days in the mountains let alone pack any camp gear or game. strapping a yuppie pack on it and proclaiming it as a pack dog is just,well... foolishness. i see no control over this mutt, as in leash etc to prevent it from harassing wildlife(bear or squirrel),horses or other hikers. what the owner says his dog will do or how it is trained matters not,as many court cases have already proven.....

LOL....nait, nait, nait.....insulting me got no reaction so you thought you'd insult my dog....... Now tell me all about these many court cases......lmao Heck, I'd even settle for one

As for Jet, he already worked as a pack dog accompanying hunters on sheep/moose hunts and he had no trouble pulling or should I say carrying his own weight.

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

LOL

Truthfully I find those that rely solely on Reductio ad absurdum to make a point typically seem to not recognize it as a counterpopint......funny.

Crap, I'm out- can't keep up with such BIG words!!=>(
Cat

[Nait Hadya]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

Nope, I'm guessing if I sent him on an outrun those sheep would have been long gone. Domestic sheep and cattle are one thing but wild animals are another. Even domestic herd animals that are not used to being worked by dogs are extremely hard to do anything with until the dog has had a chance to work them for a while. The stories you hear of working dogs bringing in the cattle or sheep from great distances are with cows and sheep that are well dog broke, not bighorns in the mountains. I could never see it working and at some point we need to quit denying people opportunity out of fear that a very small percentage might abuse the privilage. Make the law clear and charge those that don't respect it.

my experience is that the sheep don't run away when they see a k9. that would give a hunter with a dog an advantage over the sheep. kinda like the toller working ducks. as it were.....

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by Redfrog

licensing, report to a hotline, testing, tethers???????/

For what? a problem that doesn't exist? We have dogs in the field now in areas that hold big game and yet the advocates of these things on this thread can not show ONE case where someone has been charged with wildlife harassment even though it is currently a law.

How bloody ridiculous.!!!!!

Redfrog, I find your thought process very interesting. Your reasoning is that because someone cannot provide you with the stats on the number of tickets issued for dogs running at large it doesn't happen?

I was just going to ignore your argument as I don't feel that it is of any value to the debate however I just might as well edumacate you with a little light reading:

http://www.vaildaily.com/article/201...NEWS/100319795
"DURANGO, Colo. — A Colorado wildlife officer has shot and killed an unleashed dog that was harassing an elk near Durango."


http://www.biggamehunt.net/news/dogs...erious-problem
"Conservation officers from the Minnesota Department of Natural Resources (DNR) are receiving a growing number of reports about dogs chasing and harassing deer."

http://gf.state.wy.us/services/news/...2/080222_5.asp
"COKEVILLE - After responding to complaints of dogs chasing and killing deer, and complaints of people on snowshoes running off deer and elk to get their antlers, one local game warden suggests it's time that people take control of their ethics and their pets and stop harassing the wildlife."

http://onyourownadventures.com/huntt...d.php?t=244406
"Dogs running deer!"

When you're done reading all of that, why not ride your goat on down and feast a bit?
http://venisondogfood.net/294/could-...s-hunt-a-deer/

'Nuff said, I'm done with the subject of whether or not dogs running at large exists or not. It is of no value. Unless of course you have some sort of proof that it doesn't happen.

[Skinnydipper]

Originally Posted by Pudelpointer

Your earlier (and continued) argument appears to be that your hound will lead you right to a full curl ram, spot it for you, distract it long enough for you to take a shot, indicate the yardage and appropriate holdover and wind correction, and carry your tripod shooting system and rifle up the steep spots, and pack at least 2 quarters for you off the mountain.

Thanks for that....now that's the kinda dog I need!!

[Skinnydipper]

Sheep,

Come to think of it that city mongrel does give out kind of a "Yuppie" vibe!!!

Originally Posted by Skinnydipper

Sheep,

Come to think of it that city mongrel does give out kind of a "Yuppie" vibe!!!

What are you talking about, he's a highly pedigreed Medium Coated Welsh Retriever.....first one in North America

[Nait Hadya]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

LOL

Truthfully I find those that rely solely on Reductio ad absurdum to make a point typically seem to not recognize it as a counterpopint......funny.

Had a great day running cats today. Shared your little fairytale of dogs assisting with the sheep hunt. Actually wished I wouldn`t have when the driver neary drove off a cliff laughing so hard. Made for some good laughs over lunch anyhow.

holds little water and your comment is held in the same context as stating bomb on a plane.

[Tundra Monkey]

[QUOTE=how much could this pack dog carry? i am sure it can't carry enough food and water to sustain itself for 10 days in the mountains let alone pack any camp gear or game.[/QUOTE]

I have no doubt in my mind that this dog can carry 16 cups of kibble in its "yuppy pack". It will find all the water it needs. 10 days done.

tm

[rielbowhunter]

Originally Posted by Nait Hadya

how much could this pack dog carry? i am sure it can't carry enough food and water to sustain itself for 10 days in the mountains let alone pack any camp gear or game. strapping a yuppie pack on it and proclaiming it as a pack dog is just,well... foolishness. i see no control over this mutt, as in leash etc to prevent it from harassing wildlife(bear or squirrel),horses or other hikers. what the owner says his dog will do or how it is trained matters not,as many court cases have already proven.....

Not sure about sheeps dog but mine could pull out a antalope or small deer/ or half at a time. she pulls my 90lbs son , on a sled right now.

[Tundra Monkey]

fricken' HORSE lol

What does he weigh??

tm

[rielbowhunter]

Originally Posted by Tundra Monkey

fricken' HORSE lol

What does he weigh??

tm

mine weighs 95 lbs . a friends is a big male and weighs 135 lbs . I just had to say somthing in this thread. I just don't see why not? bringing your dog along is not going to change much with hunting. but it could save a life. my dog would keep me warm at night to if needed.

[sheepguide]

[QUOTE=Nait Hadya;795867]

how much could this pack dog carry? i am sure it can't carry enough food and water to sustain itself for 10 days in the mountains let alone pack any camp gear or game. QUOTE]

Ive been researching this alot for my own purpose and the number I get from some very experienced dog packers on another site is around that 25%-30% of the dogs body weight depending on the terrain.

Biggest thing is even if the dog cant carry alot, many of us would like to have our dogs there as companions. So really what does it matter what TJ's or anyones dog packs? Its not relevent to the conversation.
You say dogs would help guys get close to sheep? Well ive done the same with my horses for sheep, moose and elk so what is the difference? Sheep will react the same to humans whether there is a dog there or not. And a solo dog on the hill with them sheep is gunna put them sheep on full alert and more than likely be on the run. They will associate any K9 as a threat as they cant distinguish between a wolf or a dog so your theory is full of holes.
SG

[Nait Hadya]

[QUOTE=sheepguide;796267]

Originally Posted by Nait Hadya

[IMG]1.photobucket.com/albums/h44/sheephunterab/Fortress 3 jpg[/IMG]

Sheep will react the same to humans whether there is a dog there or not. And a solo dog on the hill with them sheep is gunna put them sheep on full alert and more than likely be on the run....SG

speaking from experience are we....more than likely? when a moose sees a wolf do they run? when an elk sees a wolf,do they run? i'm not interested in speculation, just the fax!

[Tundra Monkey]

Originally Posted by rielbowhunter

mine weighs 95 lbs .

He looks WAY bigger than that....beautiful dog.

On another note.....If push came to shove, that one would feed you for longer than SH's

tm

[ksteed17]

Originally Posted by Nait Hadya

speaking from experience are we....more than likely? When a moose sees a wolf do they run? when an elk sees a wolf,do they run? i'm not interested in speculation, just the fax!

WOW... i wonder what your new handle well be after that comment. I love having my dog with me, but with her breed i wouldnt be able to keep her from "hunting" to sit still long enough to glass. Is she behaved you bet! its all training and hard work. Wild animals cant tell the difference between your purse chiuahua, TJ's collie, and any other dog out there compared to a wolf or other predator. If its on 4 legs, furry and running towards them im pretty dang sure they're getting the heck outta there as fast as they can.

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by sheepguide

Biggest thing is even if the dog cant carry alot, many of us would like to have our dogs there as companions. So really what does it matter what TJ's or anyones dog packs? Its not relevent to the conversation. SG

It's relevant if you are talking about changing the regs to allow for pack dogs while hunting big game.

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by ksteed17

WOW... i wonder what your new handle well be after that comment. I love having my dog with me, but with her breed i wouldnt be able to keep her from "hunting" to sit still long enough to glass. Is she behaved you bet! its all training and hard work. Wild animals cant tell the difference between your purse chiuahua, TJ's collie, and any other dog out there compared to a wolf or other predator. If its on 4 legs, furry and running towards them im pretty dang sure they're getting the heck outta there as fast as they can.

Except for that ram that head butted that dog over the cliff.

What kind of dog do you have?

[ksteed17]

Originally Posted by HunterDave

Except for that ram that head butted that dog over the cliff.

What kind of dog do you have?

these are my 2 girls, if only my daughter would listen like my dog does And shes a GSP.

[/IMG]

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by ksteed17

these are my 2 girls, if only my daughter would listen like my dog does And shes a GSP.

[/IMG]

Wait til your daughter turns 16 and knows everything. Then she wouldn't listen at all.

GSP's can be a little wired but that's a good thing for what they are designed for.

[sheepguide]

Originally Posted by HunterDave

It's relevant if you are talking about changing the regs to allow for pack dogs while hunting big game.

How is it relevent? The dog can pack. How is how much it can carry an issue? Even if its 5 -10lbs. And bigger dogs will be more. As long as a dog can carry his own food and maybe a pound or two for you then whats the big deal? If your Corkie or Poodle can carry there own food then they too should be able to pack and travel with you in a controled way while you hunt!
SG

[sheepguide]

Originally Posted by Nait Hadya

speaking from experience are we....more than likely? when a moose sees a wolf do they run? when an elk sees a wolf,do they run? i'm not interested in speculation, just the fax!

As a matter of fact I am speaking from experience. Sheep go on full alert if they see a wolf(or other predators) and then if that wolf gets to close sheep will flee to a safer area such as cliffs, just as I stated. Same goes for any other animal you have mentioned. They have a safety distance and once the predator crosses that line elk and moose will also flee, with a small percentage standing and fighting these usually being cows protecting calves.
Maybe you should back your so called facts before saying others speculate!
SG

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by sheepguide

How is it relevent? The dog can pack. How is how much it can carry an issue? Even if its 5 -10lbs. And bigger dogs will be more. As long as a dog can carry his own food and maybe a pound or two for you then whats the big deal? If your Corkie or Poodle can carry there own food then they too should be able to pack and travel with you in a controled way while you hunt!
SG

It's relevant because if a regulation is proposed to allow pack dogs on big game hunts there is no logic to it if the dog can only carry it's own food. There would be no requirement for dog food if there's no dog. Make sense?

A dog that doesn't pack is not a pack dog, it's just a dog.

If you are looking for ways around it then I suppose that you could carry the dog food and the dog can carry your socks and underwear. See, we've already found ways to exploit the system!