Sausage making question

[NW Tradegunner]

I had bought some chicken sausage a few weeks ago at the Strathcona Market. We really liked it. So I tried to duplicate it. I made a small batch; like 6 lbs. of chicken breasts and 1.5 lbs pork trim into the grinder, course grind. I added: 3 finely chopped onions, then fried them until brown, 2 tablespoons poultry seasoning, 1 tablespoon salt, 1 tablespoon pepper, 4 teaspoons of Bradley Sugar Cure and 3 cups of mashed potatoes. Added about 3 cups ice water and mixed it all up. Some of the stuff was from taste of the sausages and some from a cooking show I had seen. I used natural casings; ~1" and that was it. When I cleaned out the stuffer the extra, I made into patties and BBQed them. Had them with bread and a bit of mayo. They were very good! My question is, man was that stuff sticky! The patties looked like, or put it this way; didn't look like nice even patties. The mixture was very sticky. Did I do it right? Any suggestions from any of you sausage makers???

[roper1]

Ask Crownb. We think he is the master

[expmler]

The stickiness would be from the starch in the potatoes. I am a bit worried about the amount of cure. If you didn't smoke the sausage the cure is not necessary. Did the cure have instructions as to how much per pound of meat?

[Mhunter51]

The stickiness will come from the cure and potatoes you put in. The cure is GENERALLY only used if you are going to smoke a sausage. Your recipe sounds very good and it turned out quite well as you said it was good, but next time maybe try some very fine bread crumbs instead of the potatoes. The mashed potatoes will have a lot of water and starch in them causing the 'slimmy' or sticky texture. The bread crumbs will hold the sausage together and that's why most sausage mixes you buy have bread crumbs or toasted wheat crumbs in them thus why they are called binders. Sounds like you had fun and it tasted good, so in the end that's what matters.
Just a side not, your sausage had about 150% better quality ingredients than the chicken sausage you bought. There sure wasn't any chicken breast in there!!!!!!!!

[NW Tradegunner]

The cure said 7.5 tsp. for every 5 lbs. of meat. I added 3. I have them in the fridge now and later this week put some in my son in law's smoker, just to see what results I got. Low sodium diet isn't user friendly to sausage makers. I'll try the bread crumb thing next time round to see if there's any different. The meat seemed to be white meat in the market sausages I tried but who knows what went in them????

[expmler]

Originally Posted by NW Tradegunner

The cure said 7.5 tsp. for every 5 lbs. of meat. I added 3. I have them in the fridge now and later this week put some in my son in law's smoker, just to see what results I got. Low sodium diet isn't user friendly to sausage makers. I'll try the bread crumb thing next time round to see if there's any different. The meat seemed to be white meat in the market sausages I tried but who knows what went in them????

If the cure said 7.5 tsp\5lb meat, you should have used 11tsp\7.5 lbs meat.

I think 4 tsp is not enough cure to smoke.

[omega50]

Originally Posted by NW Tradegunner

I had bought some chicken sausage a few weeks ago at the Strathcona Market. We really liked it. So I tried to duplicate it. I made a small batch; like 6 lbs. of chicken breasts and 1.5 lbs pork trim into the grinder, course grind. I added: 3 finely chopped onions, then fried them until brown, 2 tablespoons poultry seasoning, 1 tablespoon salt, 1 tablespoon pepper, 4 teaspoons of Bradley Sugar Cure and 3 cups of mashed potatoes. Added about 3 cups ice water and mixed it all up. Some of the stuff was from taste of the sausages and some from a cooking show I had seen. I used natural casings; ~1" and that was it. When I cleaned out the stuffer the extra, I made into patties and BBQed them. Had them with bread and a bit of mayo. They were very good! My question is, man was that stuff sticky! The patties looked like, or put it this way; didn't look like nice even patties. The mixture was very sticky. Did I do it right? Any suggestions from any of you sausage makers???

1. Chicken breasts are low in Myosin and resist salt soluble binding
2. Use of cure in Chicken sausage will still react with Myoglobin and lock in a pinkish color that might appear to be uncooked.
3.Potato can be used as a cheap binder, but have different qualities depending on type. All starches react the same to heat and moisture-they will always Swell, Split and Soften. They have no off button. Red skin potatoes are known as waxy potatoes-low in starch and high in sugar. Knowing that starches swell, split and soften-red skin potatoes will not break down like a starchy(Russet) potato and are best used where you want then to keep their shape(sliced-diced )etc.

If you try to mash a red skin potato they will get waxy, gummy and very sticky. They are not recommended for binding use. You don't say what type you used, so this may be a contributing factor.

In summation and with respect.
Lose the spuds
Lose the cure
Use more thigh meat
Lose the pork fat and try to source chicken fat increasing the fat to meat ratio to approx. 25% ratio. Your current fat ratio appears to be 1/2lb of fat to about 10 lbs of product or 5%.This would contribute to stickiness when raw.
Read up on getting a good salt soluble bind by breaking out the Myosin with all the salt in a small amount of meat at a very low temp beating vigorously -once it firms then you can incorporate the rest of your grind and all spice and water. Adding water early on is the greatest hindrance to making a good sausage. It stalls the bind.
Good luck and have fun.
Keep salt low approx. 16 g per kg

[expmler]

Originally Posted by omega50

1. Chicken breasts are low in Myosin and resist salt soluble binding
2. Use of cure in Chicken sausage will still react with Myoglobin and lock in a pinkish color that might appear to be uncooked.
3.Potato can be used as a cheap binder, but have different qualities depending on type. All starches react the same to heat and moisture-they will always Swell, Split and Soften. They have no off button. Red skin potatoes are known as waxy potatoes-low in starch and high in sugar. Knowing that starches swell, split and soften-red skin potatoes will not break down like a starchy(Russet) potato and are best used where you want then to keep their shape(sliced-diced )etc.

If you try to mash a red skin potato they will get waxy, gummy and very sticky. They are not recommended for binding use. You don't say what type you used, so this may be a contributing factor.

In summation and with respect.
Lose the spuds
Lose the cure
Use more thigh meat
Lose the pork fat and try to source chicken fat.
Read up on getting a good salt soluble bind by breaking out the Myosin with all the salt in a small amount of meat at a very low temp beating vigorously -once it firms then you can incorporate the rest of your grind and all spice and water. Adding water early on is the greatest hindrance to making a good sausage. It stalls the bind.
Good luck and have fun.
Keep salt low approx. 16 g per kg

If he is going to smoke sausage he will need cure, I am afraid that there is not enough in this batch.

Chicken thighs do make great sausage, I have made fresh chicken sausage and it turns out great.

[omega50]

Originally Posted by expmler

If he is going to smoke sausage he will need cure, I am afraid that there is not enough in this batch.

Chicken thighs do make great sausage, I have made fresh chicken sausage and it turns out great.

Of course if this is a smoked sausage then 3.7 g of FS100 or equivilant per kg.

Based on what I was reading and the ingredients and description of his Strathcona Market sausage -it sounded like a fresh sausage.

The OP would know
The current amount of cure in the batch that the OP already made will not present an issue for a quick hot smoke, but would not be sufficient for a prolonged cold smoke.IMO
I prefer to mix my own cures because you can not reduce a Bradley Cure to reduce salt without risking your food safety. Best to remove salt and sugar from your master recipe if you do decide to use a Bradley cure because they don't post their formulation ratios..
http://www.susanminor.org/forums/sho...-Bradley-Cures

[crownb]

Originally Posted by roper1

Ask Crownb. We think he is the master

Oh boy, I don't think I wear that crown. I make good sausage but I am far from a master. Lol

[NW Tradegunner]

I guess I won't smoke up any of this batch. Russet was the type of spuds I used.
Thanks for all the other info. There' s gonna be a lot of experimenting with this stuff: bread crumbs, etc., cures, smoking and different parts of the chicken, no pork. Wow! This is great!

[expmler]

Originally Posted by omega50

Of course if this is a smoked sausage then 3.7 g of FS100 or equivilant per kg.

Based on what I was reading and the ingredients and description of his Strathcona Market sausage -it sounded like a fresh sausage.

The OP would know
The current amount of cure in the batch that the OP already made will not present an issue for a quick hot smoke, but would not be sufficient for a prolonged cold smoke.IMO
I prefer to mix my own cures because you can not reduce a Bradley Cure to reduce salt without risking your food safety. Best to remove salt and sugar from your master recipe if you do decide to use a Bradley cure because they don't post their formulation ratios..
http://www.susanminor.org/forums/sho...-Bradley-Cures

I agree, I use cure#1 in my smoked sausage and add salt and sugar to taste.

[expmler]

Here's a good fresh chicken sausage recipe.

5 lbs chicken thighs and skins
1\2 cup fresh garlic finely chopped
2\3 cup fresh basil finely chopped
4 tsp kosher salt
1 TBS black pepper
1 tsp nutmeg
1\2 tsp allspice
2\3 cup sun dried tomatoes
2\3 cup parmesan cheese shredded
1\3 cup olive oil

Soak sun dried tomatoes in olive oil 2 days at room temp then chop into small pieces before mixing with meat.

Grind thighs and skins through a medium plate.
Mix in rest of ingredients and stuff into hog casings.

Package and freeze, cook thoroughly before eating.