Canadian Military Comes Last Again

[Twisted Canuck]

It's so shameful the way our men and women in uniform are always the last to be considered by the government that ostensibly employs them for the defence of Canada. Submarines that can't go under water, start on fire, and cost an insane amount....helicopters that had to fall out of the sky for years to get replaced....now talking about buying used F18s that are as old as what they already have, used from Australia. Never mind about the whole disability pension court battle. Really shameful. A good article on the topic of procurement here, and why it has nothing to do with giving our military anything useful, on time:

http://nationalpost.com/opinion/andr...ays-comes-last

[dgl1948]

Buffalo Airways have a couple of C3's for sale. Government should look at one of them to replace Trudeau's Jet.

[58thecat]

And a good soldier never complains too, adapt and overcome, resiliance shown through "Perseverance"...those who been there know what I am talking about.
It's always a constant battle and that's just the life we/they have/had chosen.

[Twisted Canuck]

No, they don't complain (at least not publicly that I have ever seen or heard), kudos for that. But the number of CF personnel leaving the forces is alarming, and recruitment isn't coming close to filling the gaps. When you lose that many highly trained members, can't recruit enough people to re-train, and the defense budget is severely cut....it's not a good scenario.

But then again, JT doesn't really want an effective combat force, he wants blue hat Peace Keepers, so wooden guns will probably be ok.

[Zip]

Originally Posted by 58thecat

And a good soldier never complains too, adapt and overcome, resiliance shown through "Perseverance"...those who been there know what I am talking about.
It's always a constant battle and that's just the life we/they have/had chosen.

I would just like to make a point here, yes I believe a good soldier never complains, adapts, overcomes..etc etc...but is not all that meant for actual war time activities..not our very own govt that is doing the injustice to all our brave people who put a uniform on everyday to protect us..and the best that our govt can do is give them all some inferior things to work with..if a construction worker in the field is told to go up onto unsafe scaffolding..they have every right to refuse that as it puts them in jeopardy..why can't our military and Leo's have the same say with their lives..the govt does not care who is in the uniforms..and will give them outdated old product to defend themselves with..it makes no sense to me..your lives are very important to you and your family's..same as us normal on the job site type people..why is it that this can happen with nobody stepping up and saying..hey this is not safe?
Just trying to put things in perspective here so I can understand..
Zip

[CaberTosser]

The Liberals love touting what the Canadian Forces achieved in wars prior to Trudeau's birth, heck they'll even spend money on the odd memorial or anniversary campaign. They remind me a lot of Neville Chamberlain whose passive nature and ideological fixations wound up forsaking entire nations to the Nazis and cost additional lives in the process. The Liberals would allow us to have an under-equipped and under-staffed armed forces because they picture armies as invading forces. They do love the idea of the peacekeeper role where they picture blue-hatted soldiers keeping other combatants apart like a referee, because that allows them to not think they are being an aggressor. To them, taking a side and making a stand would be egregious to the Liberal concept of fairness. The liberals picture the armed forces as a good organization have on stand-by in case of ice storms and natural disasters. The concept that our soldiers might need to kill others far across the globe offends them.

Were it not for that I think they'd be too incompetent to pull it off, I wouldn't be surprised if the Liberals orchestrated the trade spat with Boeing simply so they could pull a shell game and switch to used jets. Certainly they're capitalizing on it though. Used subs, helicopters older than the PM and now it's looking like second-hand jets will be in store for the RCAF. These are the same crew that sent the CF into action in Afghanistan wearing dark green kit.

Having closed major bases was also a mistake so far as I'm concerned, having major population centers with barely visible military presence is part of their plan to minimize voter interest in the CF. I'm going back to when Chretien closed CFB Calgary and turned it into a tiny fraction of its former self, I'm sure similar closures happened elsewhere. Who here thinks it's wise to hold the #2 or #3 oil reserves in the entire world, massive natural resource wealth and colossal amounts of excellent farmland while at the same time being sparsely populated and not have a strong armed forces? Treaties and friendly nations aside, politics can turn on a dime.

[HoytCRX32]

Like his father, Trulander has no love for the military, it's history, customs and, more to this point, their needs.
Disgusting, disrespectful and disturbing.

I remember when the Libs decided to change the uniforms..ugh!

Cretien punitively dismantling CFB Calgary (because we never vote Liberal) was another kick in the *****

[dmcbride]

I know of 2 fighter jet pilots that are joining the Australian Military. More flying time and better planers.

[nekred]

Liberals are never military friendly... reminds me of early 90's all over again with the RIF's

Thanks to the REMF's

[45/70/500]

Originally Posted by nekred

Liberals are never military friendly... reminds me of early 90's all over again with the RIF's

Thanks to the REMF's

the Lib.. leader says he likes Castro and his Military Dictatorship as well China and they also are run by there Military

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by 58thecat

And a good soldier never complains too, adapt and overcome, resiliance shown through "Perseverance"...those who been there know what I am talking about.
It's always a constant battle and that's just the life we/they have/had chosen.

A serving Soldier won't complain publicly but I can assure you that they have a very strong opinion about this. I served during the Liberal "Decade of Darkness" during the 90's when they tried their best to neuter the Military. Our leaders tried to instill the motto, "Do better with less." Try passing that on to your Troops with a straight face. IMO it was nothing short of a travesty.

Liberals are not friends of our Military, never were and never will be. We are merely political pawns to use for politician's agendas. This used fighter jet issue is just another broken promise by that lying ***** Justin. I don't feel that this is a huge issue with the general public and there won't be a big push to pressure Justin to do any differently.

[fishtank]

dont they ever learn about buying second hand... .. we have a pretty lean military and we should buy the best available fighter jets for it why cheap out . will be worth it when you need it especially when it come to the safety and security of the country like the saying goes "better to have it and not needed the, needed but dont have it "

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by HunterDave

A serving Soldier won't complain publicly but I can assure you that they have a very strong opinion about this. I served during the Liberal "Decade of Darkness" during the 90's when they tried their best to neuter the Military. Our leaders tried to instill the motto, "Do better with less." Try passing that on to your Troops with a straight face. IMO it was nothing short of a travesty.

Liberals are not friends of our Military, never were and never will be. We are merely political pawns to use for politician's agendas. This used fighter jet issue is just another broken promise by that lying ***** Justin. I don't feel that this is a huge issue with the general public and there won't be a big push to pressure Justin to do any differently.

This was and is the way but we got/get the job done. I always told the troops you got more important things to accomplish, today, tomorrow then sit around and mop, bitch or complain, we, you, I signed on the dotted line so let's Getty up and let the civies wine and complain.

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by Zip

I would just like to make a point here, yes I believe a good soldier never complains, adapts, overcomes..etc etc...but is not all that meant for actual war time activities..not our very own govt that is doing the injustice to all our brave people who put a uniform on everyday to protect us..and the best that our govt can do is give them all some inferior things to work with..if a construction worker in the field is told to go up onto unsafe scaffolding..they have every right to refuse that as it puts them in jeopardy..why can't our military and Leo's have the same say with their lives..the govt does not care who is in the uniforms..and will give them outdated old product to defend themselves with..it makes no sense to me..your lives are very important to you and your family's..same as us normal on the job site type people..why is it that this can happen with nobody stepping up and saying..hey this is not safe?
Just trying to put things in perspective here so I can understand..
Zip

Zip,

Doing more with less is what is instilled and is pretty much the norm in the forces be it land, air or sea. Troops either get use to it or get out after thier contract is up, we do have a few hard asses still hanging in there installing direction, fortitude so that those who stay in fully understand what it takes.
A civilian has the right to refuse, a military member may be put in a situation putting them in the direct line of fire and should never have the right to step back and they fully understand that, if not then they need to change careers, same as LEO,s...remember we all,have/had choices to join these outfits, not for all as a career but I can't complain looking back...doing more with less.

[Zip]

Originally Posted by 58thecat

Zip,

Doing more with less is what is instilled and is pretty much the norm in the forces be it land, air or sea. Troops either get use to it or get out after thier contract is up, we do have a few hard asses still hanging in there installing direction, fortitude so that those who stay in fully understand what it takes.
A civilian has the right to refuse, a military member may be put in a situation putting them in the direct line of fire and should never have the right to step back and they fully understand that, if not then they need to change careers, same as LEO,s...remember we all,have/had choices to join these outfits, not for all as a career but I can't complain looking back...doing more with less.

Thank you for the reply and clearing some things up for me, i do appreciate what you stand for and commend you on your stance and ability to adjust as necessary. But I just wished that the "Do more with less" was not the norm,or slogan, or whatever it may be called...i take my hat off to you and I'm glad that you have a strong character and understanding of what our leaders expect of those who are all important in keeping our country safe, I am not a winny civie by any means but I just wished that things were better for those that serve our govt in a life and death situation every day...Doctors, Leo's,soldiers,marines,air personell, the brave men in our waters as well...okay maybe not doctors, but let's go with military medic, sorry if I get some wrong wording, but I'm old and don't know the lingo...Thanks for your reply once again, I appreciate YOU!!
Zip

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by Zip

Thank you for the reply and clearing some things up for me, i do appreciate what you stand for and commend you on your stance and ability to adjust as necessary. But I just wished that the "Do more with less" was not the norm,or slogan, or whatever it may be called...i take my hat off to you and I'm glad that you have a strong character and understanding of what our leaders expect of those who are all important in keeping our country safe, I am not a winny civie by any means but I just wished that things were better for those that serve our govt in a life and death situation every day...Doctors, Leo's,soldiers,marines,air personell, the brave men in our waters as well...okay maybe not doctors, but let's go with military medic, sorry if I get some wrong wording, but I'm old and don't know the lingo...Thanks for your reply once again, I appreciate YOU!!
Zip

Zip,

Thanks for the comments and I do agree sure wish we had more in many situations, trust me. That being said our troops have always proven themselves, I don't know what it is but it is just something that surfaces and you stand back and say wow where the heck did that come from....maybe someday things will come around but until then I know the troops will prevail no matter what the task, mission etc.
Same goes for our LEO's putting things together with minimal to keeps things as safe as it can be, I do to wish our first responders, LEO's etc had the funds and government support to ease thier jobs but like the troops they to do a heck of a job.
True North Strong And Free!

[6.5 shooter]

Remember to thank all the patriotic gunnies who voted Liberal last election.. Remember them as our planes fall from the sky, our subs sink in the ocean, and our helicopters crash on there safety missions to save our brave men and woman who serve this once great country.....P.S. remember them also when the Libtards bring in more gun control measures... to keep us all safe...

[Zip]

Originally Posted by 58thecat

Zip,

Thanks for the comments and I do agree sure wish we had more in many situations, trust me. That being said our troops have always proven themselves, I don't know what it is but it is just something that surfaces and you stand back and say wow where the heck did that come from....maybe someday things will come around but until then I know the troops will prevail no matter what the task, mission etc.
Same goes for our LEO's putting things together with minimal to keeps things as safe as it can be, I do to wish our first responders, LEO's etc had the funds and government support to ease thier jobs but like the troops they to do a heck of a job.
True North Strong And Free!

Yes...True North Strong And Free...all day every day, all night every night...
Thank you 58thcat...I learned something today, I'm glad I posted and I'm glad you cleared things up for me, and maybe a few others...Stay Strong!
Zip

[ex811]

I remember having to 'guard' Pierre Truedope when he visited Lahr back in the mid 80's. The whole time I was wishing that 'something very very bad' would happen to him.
Guess I missed the mark...the real Truedope was his whinney bratty son that accompanied him.
Maybe I should have wished that some piece of old outdated piece of DND equipment either drove over or blew up the lot of them.

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by ex811

I remember having to 'guard' Pierre Truedope when he visited Lahr back in the mid 80's. The whole time I was wishing that 'something very very bad' would happen to him.
Guess I missed the mark...the real Truedope was his whinney bratty son that accompanied him.
Maybe I should have wished that some piece of old outdated piece of DND equipment either drove over or blew up the lot of them.

No you don't, your venting is all, go to ground, sleep it off.

[Old longBow]

Originally Posted by 58thecat

and a good soldier never complains too, adapt and overcome, resiliance shown through "perseverance"...those who been there know what i am talking about.
It's always a constant battle and that's just the life we/they have/had chosen.

fubar/ diligaf

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by 6.5 shooter

Remember to thank all the patriotic gunnies who voted Liberal last election.. Remember them as our planes fall from the sky, our subs sink in the ocean, and our helicopters crash on there safety missions to save our brave men and woman who serve this once great country.....P.S. remember them also when the Libtards bring in more gun control measures... to keep us all safe...

Once great country.
Take a look around the globe, travel, broaden your horizons a bit, we got a good thing here...oh yeah and i don't mean travel to an all inclusive.

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by Old longBow

fubar/ diligaf

Dilligaf...corrected it for ya

[6.5 shooter]

Originally Posted by 58thecat

Once great country.
Take a look around the globe, travel, broaden your horizons a bit, we got a good thing here...oh yeah and i don't mean travel to an all inclusive.

YES yes we all know your a great supporter of the child king....next!

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by 6.5 shooter

YES yes we all know your a great supporter of the child king....next!

Nope, have not agreed too much with who is at the helm from time to time but our country is still great. That is the only thing that is a for sure compared to many others...carry on.

[airbornedeerhunter]

Originally Posted by CaberTosser

The Liberals love touting what the Canadian Forces achieved in wars prior to Trudeau's birth, heck they'll even spend money on the odd memorial or anniversary campaign. They remind me a lot of Neville Chamberlain whose passive nature and ideological fixations wound up forsaking entire nations to the Nazis and cost additional lives in the process. The Liberals would allow us to have an under-equipped and under-staffed armed forces because they picture armies as invading forces. They do love the idea of the peacekeeper role where they picture blue-hatted soldiers keeping other combatants apart like a referee, because that allows them to not think they are being an aggressor. To them, taking a side and making a stand would be egregious to the Liberal concept of fairness. The liberals picture the armed forces as a good organization have on stand-by in case of ice storms and natural disasters. The concept that our soldiers might need to kill others far across the globe offends them.

Were it not for that I think they'd be too incompetent to pull it off, I wouldn't be surprised if the Liberals orchestrated the trade spat with Boeing simply so they could pull a shell game and switch to used jets. Certainly they're capitalizing on it though. Used subs, helicopters older than the PM and now it's looking like second-hand jets will be in store for the RCAF. These are the same crew that sent the CF into action in Afghanistan wearing dark green kit.

Having closed major bases was also a mistake so far as I'm concerned, having major population centers with barely visible military presence is part of their plan to minimize voter interest in the CF. I'm going back to when Chretien closed CFB Calgary and turned it into a tiny fraction of its former self, I'm sure similar closures happened elsewhere. Who here thinks it's wise to hold the #2 or #3 oil reserves in the entire world, massive natural resource wealth and colossal amounts of excellent farmland while at the same time being sparsely populated and not have a strong armed forces? Treaties and friendly nations aside, politics can turn on a dime.

Calgarys closure was not only necessary but welcomed by the entirety of 1 CMBG.

[Jamie]

Airborne
Why was CFB calgary closed?
Why was it welcomed?

[CaberTosser]

Originally Posted by airbornedeerhunter

Calgarys closure was not only necessary but welcomed by the entirety of 1 CMBG.

Having worked on many of the buildings since its closure, I can relate to the facilities being less than stellar. That being said I would have preferred to see a larger local presence retained.

[airbornedeerhunter]

Originally Posted by Jamie

Airborne
Why was CFB calgary closed?
Why was it welcomed?

Calgary was closed because it made no sense to have 1PPCLI in Calgary, 3 PPCLI in Edmonton and 2PPCLI in Winnipeg. Not to mention the LdSH(RC). Having the bulk of the Brigade on one base is not only more cost effective it is more conducive to interoperability between units that together form combat teams and allow for more training opportunities, easier deployment prep.

The missing piece now is that 2PPCLI and 1RCHA are in Shilo, they should be moved to Edmonton so that the entire Brigade, 3 Infantry Battalions, an Armoured Regiment, a Combat Engineer Regiment, and an Artillery unit are co-located on one base.

I guarantee you that within the next 20 years CFB Shilo and CFB Edmonton will both close and the entire Brigade will be moved to Wainwright.

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by airbornedeerhunter

Calgary was closed because it made no sense to have 1PPCLI in Calgary, 3 PPCLI in Edmonton and 2PPCLI in Winnipeg. Not to mention the LdSH(RC). Having the bulk of the Brigade on one base is not only more cost effective it is more conducive to interoperability between units that together form combat teams and allow for more training opportunities, easier deployment prep.

The missing piece now is that 2PPCLI and 1RCHA are in Shilo, they should be moved to Edmonton so that the entire Brigade, 3 Infantry Battalions, an Armoured Regiment, a Combat Engineer Regiment, and an Artillery unit are co-located on one base.

I guarantee you that within the next 20 years CFB Shilo and CFB Edmonton will both close and the entire Brigade will be moved to Wainwright.

Loosing the Sarcee training area due to the lease expiring and closing down Harvey Barracks was a sad time, loosing such a proud garrison and then to see it turn into a dump, torn down etc....