Permission Revoked on lease land!

[Jamie]

Originally Posted by RZR

Actually you don’t own the land, the government owns the land. You like everyone else in this province pays taxes, but I didn’t see you buy the lease like the leaseholders have to. To all you guys that bitch and complain, go buy a lease and then when everyone wants to come use the land and drive all over the place and cut fences etc. Let’s see how you react. I can see why you guys lose all your access around the city’s.

They (you?) I am the GOVERNMENT.. The PUBLIC is the Government.. It's my land. FULL STOP...

Want to stop access. Buy some land. If not, get out of the way.

[RZR]

Originally Posted by Jamie

They (you?) I am the GOVERNMENT.. The PUBLIC is the Government.. It's my land. FULL STOP...

Want to stop access. Buy some land. If not, get out of the way.

Spoken like a true citiot!!

[buckbrush]

Originally Posted by Jamie

They (you?) I am the GOVERNMENT.. The PUBLIC is the Government.. It's my land. FULL STOP...

Want to stop access. Buy some land. If not, get out of the way.

Yes. Also, if you don't want 'your' land referred to as 'lease land' or 'crown land' BUY some land.

[Talking moose]

Consensual Fist fight. Winner gets his way. Simple.

[buckbrush]

Originally Posted by RZR

Spoken like a true citiot!!

I agree with Jamie and live two hours from the nearest city. I've also had less issues with city folk hunting here than any of the locals. Guess who thinks they don't need permission or can drive where ever they please? Never caught a city dweller trespassing yet but then again, I'm not a lease holder...

[thumper]

I've had the exact same issues with a large ranch in WMU 102.

[tim1]

You *******s who think I don't own the land had never ever get caught on a inch of deeded land here.

[OL_JR]

Originally Posted by buckbrush

I agree with Jamie and live two hours from the nearest city. I've also had less issues with city folk hunting here than any of the locals. Guess who thinks they don't need permission or can drive where ever they please? Never caught a city dweller trespassing yet but then again, I'm not a lease holder...

I agree, I don't have land but live in a rural area and have a few landowner friends. It seems the biggest culprits are the guys that say "Hey I know Jim, Jim would be ok with me hunting." However.

When guys like Tim1 come on and express their position I can't help but see both sides of it. There are so many friggin idiots out there these days. I mean it's disgusting. Last year a landowner friend of mine was telling me how an idiot shot from their truck, from the pavement at a deer feeding at their grain pile which is literally less than 100 yards from their house. I mean how dumb can you be. They hold lease land also and that right there would be enough for me to justify making things difficult.

But these people are out there and I can't help but feel for leaseholders who have to deal with this kind of crap mentality. I get that they don't own the land but they do pay to graze it. There has to be some middle ground.

I start to wonder if it's not time we get some kind of program in place where honest hunters are rewarded and maybe some landowners/leasehoders get a little more comfort allowing access.

[tim1]

Jamie, I am far from being a welfare recipient. WE maintain the government leased land like our own. I would love to talk to you in person you ****ing know it all. You and Miskosky must be buddies. This should be enough to get me kicked off of this garbage forum.

[OL_JR]

.

[thumper]

I like the idea of grazing lease access being controlled by the government land manager, in full accordance with the existing legislation. Unless there is a bona-fide reason to deny access as per ministerial conditions, - access will be permitted. Bump up grazing lease fees (for eliminating the onerous chore of dealing with recreationalists), or make all oil & gas 'trespass fees' paid on leased lands directed to the provincial treasury. That should pay for the extra land managers needed for dealing with hunters for a couple of months each fall.

[RZR]

Originally Posted by thumper

I like the idea of grazing lease access being controlled by the government land manager, in full accordance with the existing legislation. Unless there is a bona-fide reason to deny access as per ministerial conditions, - access will be permitted. Bump up grazing lease fees (for eliminating the onerous chore of dealing with recreationalists), or make all oil & gas 'trespass fees' paid on leased lands directed to the provincial treasury. That should pay for the extra land managers needed for dealing with hunters for a couple of months each fall.

Maybe rec users should pay a yearly fee to use lease lands. If a fee of $1000 per year if you want to use lease land would solve a lot of problems and this fee could go into provincial treasury. That money could go towards upkeep of the land and pay for more enforcement.

[Bergerboy]

Originally Posted by RZR

Maybe rec users should pay a yearly fee to use lease lands. If a fee of $1000 per year if you want to use lease land would solve a lot of problems and this fee could go into provincial treasury. That money could go towards upkeep of the land and pay for more enforcement.

I have no dog in this fight, how much is the average lease for a quarter section of land in Alberta yearly?

[buckbrush]

Originally Posted by tim1

You *******s who think I don't own the land had never ever get caught on a inch of deeded land here.

So you own the lease land? In the same sense that we all own the lease land or do you own more of the lease land than we do? Please clarify.

I think we may be getting to the root of your issue, tim.

I think you've made it pretty clear that hunters aren't welcome on 'your' lease land anyways. You can't threaten to take something away that has already been taken away...Well you can threaten but it doesn't have much behind it.

[R3illy]

Originally Posted by tim1

Jamie, I am far from being a welfare recipient. WE maintain the government leased land like our own. I would love to talk to you in person you ****ing know it all. You and Miskosky must be buddies. This should be enough to get me kicked off of this garbage forum.

I can appreciate your concerns and all the bs you must deal with but you've done nothing but admit you deny access to those who are following the rules for access.

What good are the rules when you decide they dont matter?

I think jamie's a realtor in calgary if you really want to meet him.

[buckbrush]

Originally Posted by RZR

Maybe rec users should pay a yearly fee to use lease lands. If a fee of $1000 per year if you want to use lease land would solve a lot of problems and this fee could go into provincial treasury.\

You're not the first lease holder to mention payed access but most won't straight up ask for it.

[Tony the fish]

I am an advocate of public land and conservation. I have bought my own private land and have done with it as I see fit. But public land is public land. Let’s face it, cattle disrupt the eco system of that land more than any other use. These lease holders that are leveraging it to the max and denying pubic access are going to decay the respect hunters and landowners have for each other and for what’s right. The hunting Community has a voice, funds and currently political support... if these ranchers are not careful , the hunters might just pay out these leases and turn these areas into wildlands. Be reasonable


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[buckbrush]

Originally Posted by tim1

Jamie, I am far from being a welfare recipient. WE maintain the government leased land like our own. I would love to talk to you in person you ****ing know it all. You and Miskosky must be buddies. This should be enough to get me kicked off of this garbage forum.

If this is such a garbage forum, why are you still here? Why are you so keen on only meeting up with Jamie?? I'm sure there is a whole bunch of us here who would love to have a meet and greet with you. It would be a good chance for you to reiterate your appreciation to some of your landlords...

[RZR]

Originally Posted by Bergerboy

I have no dog in this fight, how much is the average lease for a quarter section of land in Alberta yearly?

They very in different parts of the province. I think the South Saskatchewan AUM $2.79 then an approximate rental fee/acre of $.70 but don’t quote me! And then you have to buy the lease.

[Jamie]

Originally Posted by tim1

Jamie, I am far from being a welfare recipient. WE maintain the government leased land like our own. I would love to talk to you in person you ****ing know it all. You and Miskosky must be buddies. This should be enough to get me kicked off of this garbage forum.

Your welcome to call when ever you wish. 403-813-2704.

We can talk more about Cowboy welfare and how you are scamming the system. Or perhaps you can just scream and yell at me a bit more. God knows you enjoy doing that.

Just got another interesting PM about you. Seems this is a running thing with you. Ignoring requests, giving good honest hunters the run around, threatening people, getting mad at neighbours because they let Hunters on. Lots of strings here to pull. I really hope I get permission to post up the last letter I got about you and your welfare dependant operation.

[Bergerboy]

Originally Posted by RZR

They very in different parts of the province. I think the South Saskatchewan AUM $2.79 then an approximate rental fee/acre of $.70 but don’t quote me! And then you have to buy the lease.

Rough guess of the yearly rate?

[Bergerboy]

https://www.kijiji.ca/v-land-for-sal...ale/1406939273

15 quarters of grazing lease for sale for 400k. 18k a year in oil and gas surface rights. 22 years that would cover your initial payment! How is this even legal for people to rent our crown land and prevent access?

[CanadianEh]

Originally Posted by Bergerboy

https://www.kijiji.ca/v-land-for-sal...ale/1406939273

15 quarters of grazing lease for sale for 400k. 18k a year in oil and gas surface rights. 22 years that would cover your initial payment! How is this even legal for people to rent our crown land and prevent access?

It is insane that a lease holder can "sell" a lease at all. These are huge business. And make ranchers hundreds of thousands or potentially millions of dollars. Not to mention gather oil revenue from leased land.

The lease pretty well cost nothing from the government. Yet they are traded on the real estate market, and a lease holder can sell a lease for huge money.

The government should get that money. Not the leaseholder. Make it illegal to "sell" leased lands. And I bet alot of lease holders stop treating it like deeded private land, and instead treat it like what it is. Rented grass for cows to eat.


P. S. Jamie and Alberta Dave, you guys should gather information and hard evidence from anyone who this guy had denied. And contact the local officer. Perhaps he will finally get a wrist slap for being a douch3

[Full Curl Earl]

Some city fellow steal your girl in junior high RZR? Because you sure use the Cityit thing alot. I’m guessing you dont live in the country, because if you did, you’d know your neighbors kids have spent more time trespassing than any slicker has. Nobody buys a lease, its a LEASE.
I bet no one that has ever asked for permission and received it has shot a cow or cut a fence. Turning away honest people that ask permission is like throwing a free private security company off the land. All you’ll have in the end is trespassing fools and no good men to call the PoPo when the wolves are at the door.

Originally Posted by RZR

Actually you don’t own the land, the government owns the land. You like everyone else in this province pays taxes, but I didn’t see you buy the lease like the leaseholders have to. To all you guys that bitch and complain, go buy a lease and then when everyone wants to come use the land and drive all over the place and cut fences etc. Let’s see how you react. I can see why you guys lose all your access around the city’s.

[Tucker12]

Hands down this is the most fu**ed up thing I have ever read. So could I get a grazing lease never put a animal on it and sell hunting rights to the highest bidder(s)? From what I’ve read this is basically what’s happening and it helps to be buddies with the county administration as far as bending the rules to keep others out.

[KegRiver]

One thing I'm not seeing acknowledged.

The cost of developing lease land so it can support cattle and inadvertently perhaps, a lot more wildlife then untouched crown land does.

One thing that makes lease land so attractive to hunters is the improved habitat and access that the Lease holder worked hard to achieve.

It seems to me that the least anyone should do is at least appreciate that contribution even if it was not meant for your benefit. It non-the-less is a benefit to all hunters, even those who don't hunt leased land.

One thing I'm sure of, an adversarial stance does no good for either party.

None of us like it when all hunters are painted as poacher, why does anyone here think lease holders would like being labeled as selfish when by all indications it is only a very few who are unreasonable.

And of those, I'd bet the majority are that way because some idiot thought no one was watching.

A good many members can tell stories about encounters with selfish unreasonable hunters. Try to imagine being the focus for many of that type.
How would you feel about your fellow hunters then?

[crazy_davey]

Posts 113, 114 and 115 shows exactly how ignorant some folks are about the cost of a grazing lease, cost to maintain and costs per year.

I will give one example I know of recently. A lease of two quarters close to here was recently accessed to be sold at $170-180,000. These two quarters are both half covered in bush(not great for grazing), with no water, lots of crap bush fence. $170,000 sounds great for two quarters, right? And that’s just the initial cost to buy the lease. Fencing, spraying weeds, hauling water, paying the yearly rate according to AUM’s. And yes, the lease inspector does come to make sure things are being kept up. At least here they do as I have seen it with my own eyes working as a ranch hand over the years.

Cowboy welfare. What a crock of ****!

Go out, buy a herd of cattle, some deeded land, some lease land and find out what it is like. And yes, I have owned my own cattle and it is a far bigger venture than most think. Most here couldn’t afford to buy 30-50 cows and a few bulls to get started, let alone the land to put them on so take your cowboy welfare and shove it where the sun don’t shine.

Yup, there are some bad lease holders, but some very good ones that do a good job of taking care of that land. Better than most would by the looks of some of our backcountry areas.

I’m sick of the masses here dumping on leaseholders because of a few bad apples . It’s total garbage and not called for. I had a neighbor ask me about a thread on here last year, he was ****ed and insulted by what he read here and at the time was thinking of starting to say no to hunters on his lease and deeded land. All he had to do was open the gates and let his cows in. He was well within his lease agreement to do so as he can use his lease year round. We talked and I think he calmed down a bit.

Think about it before trashing on lease holders.

[crazy_davey]

Originally Posted by Jamie

When I say some day, I meaning when obnoxious renters like yourself are thrown out on your ear. It's coming and I don't think you know how quickly...... Changes are in the wind....

Ya, and I’ll bet you’re wrong. It won’t be lease holders losing out, hunters will feel the hit more.

You’re a big talker here Jamie, but I bet if you lived in the country, owned cattle and a lease your opinion would be different. Come around here during hunting season and I can show you where hunters are constantly breaking the law and making all hunters look bad. And no, here for the most part it isn’t the locals.

[Jerry D]

Quote from somewhere

No buckbrush what I meant was come around here and don't follow the rules and I will keep charging people. I am not getting away with anything. I deny access where cattle are present which is my right. Through hunting season probably half of the ranch is open for hunting. What more can I do? Yes everything gets shut down when someone ****s up big time. Leaving gates open messes with the ranch operation. Don't like to paint everyone with the same brush but you guys think about this: I have never had a hunter tell me that he is unethical and is going to do **** like hunt in the cows, drive on the grass or do damage to property. When I can read minds I will be able to tell the good people from that bad.


What right do you have to shut everything down when 1 person leaves a gate open? To me its the cost of doing business...

[sdb8440]

Originally Posted by tim1

You *******s who think I don't own the land had never ever get caught on a inch of deeded land here.

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