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Old 11-16-2019, 08:46 PM
Mister Bee Mister Bee is offline
 
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Default Middle school teacher teaching deer butchering in class in Lac La Biche

I’m not one to share a whole pile of things but thought a lot of you would enjoy seeing this. I know this teacher very well and he is doing this all for the kids and does things like this in his outdoor ed class frequently.

https://thehuntingnews.com/middle-sc...k-down-a-deer/

The original Facebook post has over 33 000 shares as well.

I hope the link works

I apologize if someone else has shared this and I missed it
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Old 11-16-2019, 09:34 PM
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This is so good...
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Old 11-16-2019, 09:35 PM
OL_JR OL_JR is offline
 
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That's amazing! My boy starts outdoor ed in the second semester and I'm going to share this with his teacher.
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Old 11-17-2019, 01:24 AM
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That’s fantastic!
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Old 11-17-2019, 07:59 AM
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Perfect!

BW
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Old 11-17-2019, 08:27 AM
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I was shut down by bosses for doing this twice. The second time was just a month ago by a nosy employee causing a ruckus. Made us call AHS to get their ruling. So mad. My principal was even mad at her for doing it, as it robbed the kids of a great experience. I hope this guy has no stupid people in his school. Good on him.
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Old 11-17-2019, 09:41 AM
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I was shut down by bosses for doing this twice. The second time was just a month ago by a nosy employee causing a ruckus. Made us call AHS to get their ruling. So mad. My principal was even mad at her for doing it, as it robbed the kids of a great experience. I hope this guy has no stupid people in his school. Good on him.
There’s no way I could do this in my classes either..
Too bad though.
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Old 11-17-2019, 11:22 AM
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There’s no way I could do this in my classes either..
Too bad though.
In Lac La Biche they still know where their food comes from .

Grizz
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Old 11-17-2019, 11:37 AM
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In Lac La Biche they still know where their food comes from .

Grizz
That has nothing to do with it. Calgarychef and I teach students and run restaurants that are licensed and provincially inspected, as opposed to this teacher in his outdoor ed class. He will get shut down by some do-gooder parent. Very unfortunate.
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Old 11-17-2019, 12:59 PM
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Ya you dont wanna be teaching actuall life skills, someone will be offended fairly quickly I'd imagine.
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Old 11-17-2019, 01:18 PM
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I had a student (Science 8) bring in the heart, liver, and a kidney from his deer this year. We passed them around in ziplock bags and talked about how each organ's texture related to its function, then sliced them open to discuss the different structures around and inside them. I don't think butchering a carcass would be accepted, though.
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Old 11-17-2019, 01:42 PM
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He had an interview with edmonton journal. Here's the link if you're interested.

https://edmontonjournal.com/news/loc...o-butcher-deer
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Old 11-17-2019, 02:19 PM
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I was shut down by bosses for doing this twice. The second time was just a month ago by a nosy employee causing a ruckus. Made us call AHS to get their ruling. So mad. My principal was even mad at her for doing it, as it robbed the kids of a great experience. I hope this guy has no stupid people in his school. Good on him.
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There’s no way I could do this in my classes either..
Too bad though.
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Originally Posted by alacringa View Post
I had a student (Science 8) bring in the heart, liver, and a kidney from his deer this year. We passed them around in ziplock bags and talked about how each organ's texture related to its function, then sliced them open to discuss the different structures around and inside them. I don't think butchering a carcass would be accepted, though.
Thank you guys for trying. The only way to stop this attitude is find a way to teach the kids. Is the problem just doing it on site because of health regs? Can you do it off site? Say a butcher shop? Or even a heated garage?
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Old 11-18-2019, 10:19 AM
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Thank you guys for trying. The only way to stop this attitude is find a way to teach the kids. Is the problem just doing it on site because of health regs? Can you do it off site? Say a butcher shop? Or even a heated garage?
I'm not sure how he runs the class, but it may be that Mr. Lyons is having the kids butcher the deer and it remains for his sole consumption. In that case I'd be surprised if AHS had any sway.
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Old 11-18-2019, 10:28 AM
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Not a deer, but in my daughters grade 12 foods class in Cremona, the teacher and her husband have a hobby farm and they took all the kids over and killed and butchered a pig with them all. I thought it was awesome to show the kids where their food comes from and what is involved in slaughtering and butchering.
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Old 11-18-2019, 11:52 AM
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I'm not sure how he runs the class, but it may be that Mr. Lyons is having the kids butcher the deer and it remains for his sole consumption. In that case I'd be surprised if AHS had any sway.
AHS would have no sway, as it is not a school kitchen making food for sale to the public. I can guarantee that is his strategy - and good on him - to avoid the people who would shut him down (do-gooders).
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Old 11-18-2019, 11:53 AM
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Not a deer, but in my daughters grade 12 foods class in Cremona, the teacher and her husband have a hobby farm and they took all the kids over and killed and butchered a pig with them all. I thought it was awesome to show the kids where their food comes from and what is involved in slaughtering and butchering.
I asked for permission to do the same. Was told it may traumatize kids who have seen bad stuff in their life. Made sense to me.
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Old 11-18-2019, 11:54 AM
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Man I wish there had been classes like that in the schools I went to.
As it was we learned almost no real life skills and I was bored most of the time.

High school was better, I could take classes on auto mechanics and TV repair and I loved it.

I never did understand the point in social studies class but we had to take it anyway. boring boring boring.
At least math, literature and science made sense. I could see how that might be handy stuff to know, but social studies! What chance was there that I'd run into a Roman gladiator in northern Alberta.
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Old 11-18-2019, 12:20 PM
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I asked for permission to do the same. Was told it may traumatize kids who have seen bad stuff in their life. Made sense to me.
It might make a bit of sense but how many kids would that be?

There isn't many sadists in the world so far as I know.
On the other hand, how many kids might be traumatized by the sight of a glass full of amber colored fluid? Or a leather belt?

There is no way to know what will traumatize a kid that's been abused. More often then not, that abuse involved every day things we all take for granted,
like a bedroom or a leather belt.

It's admirable that teachers want to protect kids from trauma of any sort but at what point does it make sense to deprive many kids of valuable learning to protect one or two kids who may or may not be traumatized by some everyday thing.

When my oldest was about eight she wanted to spend a couple of days with a friend. Her mother objected saying we didn't know enough about that family, they might do something to hurt our child.

So I sat my child down and told her, if I could I'd protect her from all the bad things in the world I would but the only way to do that was to lock her in a closet for the rest of her life and I couldn't do that to her.
I told her I trusted her to call us if she felt unsafe in any way.

So she went, and today she is an awesome mom of four very impressive grand kids. She is teaching them to stand up for themselves, and others.
And she is teaching them real world skills like butchering and gardening.

She doesn't just do those things when they are around, she gets them involved. The two older grand-kids have jobs now and are very well liked by their bosses and co workers.

That's what teaching real life skills to a kid can do. They gain confidence in themselves and learn that they can stand on their own two feet.

You are in a better position to know what your kids can handle then I am but I do hope you find some way to teach real life skills to the kids under your care.

That might not be butchering, but there is so much a teacher can teach besides reading writing and rithmatic.

I know this, when I left school I had no idea how to find a job, or how to hold a job. I had no idea how to make my money work for me or how to save for things I couldn't pay for at the moment.

A formal education is necessary and good and so are real life skills.
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Old 11-18-2019, 12:52 PM
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I asked for permission to do the same. Was told it may traumatize kids who have seen bad stuff in their life. Made sense to me.
It is too bad they couldn't just choose to opt out rather than making them all miss out.
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Old 11-18-2019, 03:41 PM
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If a kid saw their mom with her face punched in and bloodied, it's an issue. I saw that at least once a month growing up before my parents split up.

I also have taught many students who fled Syria. Some saw rows of dead bodies, including babies and cousins lined up in the streets. Remember, in the Muslim culture martyrs are celebrated. A brother and sister showed me the pics on their cell phone of their cousin with his brains blown out. It was a disturbing image. They were proud of him. I ended up sharing a meal with the parents later that year and they showed me videos on youtube of barrel bombs being rolled out of Assad's helicopters literally 20 ft above apartment buildings, and the bodies laid out on the road after the dust had settled.

Trust me, when experiences trigger kids they trigger them.

Also keep in mind that a good percentage of students are Muslim and therefore the killing would have to be Halal (throat slit). Not that a gun would be any less disturbing for some kids. Have you heard a pig or lamb squeal? I am sure you have.

Not worth the risk at all from my perspective.

A lot easier to order a whole pig from the Hoots which is what I have always done.

Footnote: Last time I ordered a whole pig to have the kids butchering during our school open house, a worm of a colleague had his sister write a letter to the Superintendent of schools demanding I be reprimanded.

Last edited by sns2; 11-18-2019 at 03:47 PM.
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Old 11-18-2019, 03:50 PM
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If a kid saw their mom with her face punched in and bloodied, it's an issue. I saw that at least once a month growing up.

I also have taught many students who fled Syria and saw rows of dead bodies, including babies and cousins lined up in the streets. Remember, in the Muslim culture martyrs are celebrated. A brother and sister showed me the pics on their cell phone of their cousin with his brains blown out. It was a disturbing image. They were proud of him. I ended up sharing a meal with the parents later that year and they showed me videos on youtube of barrel bombs being rolled out of Assad's helicopters literally 20 ft above apartment buildings, and the bodies stacked up on the road after the dust had settled.

Trust me, when experiences trigger kids they trigger them.

Also keep in mind that a good percentage of students are Muslim and therefore the killing would have to be Halal (throat slit). Have you heard a pig squeal? I am sure you have.

Not worth the risk at all.
When you put it that way it makes complete sense. I imagine biology 20-30 would be hard for them as well as I believe dissection was part of the curriculum. Was thinking it would work well combined with Outdoor Ed but not sure that is even offered anymore.
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Old 11-18-2019, 05:55 PM
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When you put it that way it makes complete sense. I imagine biology 20-30 would be hard for them as well as I believe dissection was part of the curriculum. Was thinking it would work well combined with Outdoor Ed but not sure that is even offered anymore.
A cow brain in a tray is a lot different than an animal being slaughtered, so I think they will be ok in Bio. I agree that kids need to know where their meat comes from, hence me floating the idea to my boss. But I wouldn't do it anymore.

I would love to be able to take kids ice fishing and I just may do so with our school elder this year. I will have flipping reams of hurdles to jump through to get permission.
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Old 11-18-2019, 05:59 PM
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A cow brain in a tray is a lot different than an animal being slaughtered, so I think they will be ok in Bio. I agree that kids need to know where their meat comes from, hence me floating the idea to my boss. But I wouldn't do it anymore.

I would love to be able to take kids ice fishing and I just may do so with our school elder this year. I will have flipping reams of hurdles to jump through to get permission.
Just a few permission slips and approvals to get that one done! Makes it barely worth your time. Unfortunate that paperwork can get in the way but not surprised. Wish our schools had these programs. Would be a fun class to teach for you as well!
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Old 11-18-2019, 07:28 PM
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Just a few permission slips and approvals to get that one done! Makes it barely worth your time. Unfortunate that paperwork can get in the way but not surprised. Wish our schools had these programs. Would be a fun class to teach for you as well!
Permission is simple, it's Board approval. There was a run of about 10 years where there were a number of deaths on field trips...

- Winter field trip by a private school from Calgary (avalanche iirc)
- Rogue wave taking kid out to sea on Oregon beach
- Drowning at Hubbles Lake when over 100 kids were there

Now when you take kids on a field trip they can't even dip their toes in the ocean, but yet you can take them swimming in a pool all day long.

Last edited by sns2; 11-18-2019 at 07:52 PM.
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Old 11-18-2019, 07:32 PM
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Permission is simple, it's Board approval. There was a run of about 10 years where there were a number of deaths of field trips...

- Winter field trip by a private school from Calgary (avalanche)
- Rogue wave taking kid out to see on Oregon beach
- Drowning at Hubbles Lake when over 100 kids were there

Now when you take kids on a field trip they can't even dip their toes in the ocean, but yet you can take them swimming in a pool all day long.
Unfortunate accidents for sure. Almost like they think paperwork could save it. My ex was a band teacher. Spent piles of times filling out those forms. Infinite amount of risks everywhere. All about calculated risks I guess. You guys need your prep time just for forms!
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Old 11-18-2019, 11:21 PM
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geezz sns2 you had it rough for sure.

I faced bullying almost every day, kid on kid but never saw either of my parents get violent in any way.

Guess I had it pretty good.

A good teacher is worth every bit as much to society as a Soldier or Policeman.

That is why I wrote to the teacher mentioned in the story that started this thread, and to the local newspaper.
I think it's important that we support the good teachers out there. Or at least let them know that we appreciate their efforts.

BTW I seldom write to newspapers or strangers to voice my opinion.

With that I'd like to offer my time to your class. If you and your supervisors wish, I could talk to them about trapping. How it's done, why it's done and how it effects animal populations.

I don't have any pelts to show them but I do have some traps and stretchers and other tools that I could bring.

I could also do something regarding birds and their role in the world or about mushroom gathering and the dangers and benefits involved.
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Old 11-21-2019, 02:58 PM
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The teacher mentioned to me that the health/food inspector stopped by his school to check to make sure the deer butchering and what they do with the meat follows the food and health laws and according to the inspector the teacher is following all the required laws and codes and he’s able to continue his program as is.
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Old 11-21-2019, 04:25 PM
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The teacher mentioned to me that the health/food inspector stopped by his school to check to make sure the deer butchering and what they do with the meat follows the food and health laws and according to the inspector the teacher is following all the required laws and codes and he’s able to continue his program as is.

That is good news. I hope more teachers are able to teach real world skills in their classrooms.

RRR has it's place but real world skills are also important and busy parenets these days have so little time to teach their kids such things, if they even know how to do it themselves. Many don't.
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