How many non resident alien tags sold in Alberta each year?

[35 whelen]

Originally Posted by last minute

Wow for real a driver's license or government ID to the province they wish to hunt in for that hunting license to be legal .

so if someone that wanted to hunt all the provinces they would need all the different driver licenses / government ID not practical .Done deal
if I'm understanding you correctly

NO ,you would not be a resident of that province if you did not have a drivers lisence or some other provincial id.

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by IronNoggin

Further to that end - Your FWID number requires verification every three years to remain valid. That must be provided in the way of official government identification.

The program to eliminate cheaters has been well engaged now.



And I suppose you personally reported every one of these violators... Right??

Perhaps if the problem is nearly as large as you suggest, it is time for Alberta to follow BC's lead in cracking down on them...

Nog

Yes I told the ones I know who had two numbers to sort it out, they didn’t know the process.

Ummm...did you miss the part where certain stakeholders have put forth resolutions of change? I actually drafted one mysel and it was submitted, so yes I am doing what I can. Why would you suggest otherwise?

Why do you think BC stepped up their measures? Likely it was an issue, like it is in Alberta.

LC

[Torkdiesel]

Originally Posted by last minute

Wow for real a driver's license or government ID to the province they wish to hunt in for that hunting license to be legal .

so if someone that wanted to hunt all the provinces they would need all the different driver licenses / government ID not practical .Done deal
if I'm understanding you correctly

You’re going to hold multiple drivers licenses or health cards in multiple provinces and keep changing them around to prove you currently live in each province?
Not sure how many people would be willing to break the law like that in the hopes they won’t get caught hunting in the wrong province.

I guess if their employer didn’t need them to have a license, and you were just a kid that didn’t own anything it might be easier. For myself it would be a nightmare trying to change things back and forth just so I could hunt two provinces as a resident

[Deer Hunter]

Originally Posted by IronNoggin

As I recall it was less than 1.6 % overall.
Anyone really consider that a "threat" to your own chances of success?
Really? It means you get an "extra" chance every 94 years.
The greed factor certainly shines through in some.

I really enjoy taking my Alberta buddies out here in BC for goats, moose, caribou, bears and more.
And I really appreciate the odd run back to my old stomping grounds in Alberta for deer.
Certainly wouldn't like losing the opportunity to do either simply because somebody wants to cut off their nose to spite their face!

Cheers,
Nog

Yep. The rest of Canada is really helping us out.

Saskatchewan has is right!

[last minute]

Originally Posted by 35 whelen

NO ,you would not be a resident of that province if you did not have a drivers lisence or some other provincial id.

Thanks I understand better now .

[marky_mark]

Originally Posted by Deer Hunter

Yep. The rest of Canada is really helping us out.

Saskatchewan has is right!

Makes Sense to me
This is a resource that is being exploited by others
Theres nothing wrong with non resident hunters. We are just giving non residents too good of a deal.

The tag prices need to be higher. Whats a non resident tag? $120 bucks? Its $500 usd for a non resident antelope tag in colorado.
So higher tag prices and/or a government collected trophy fee

I personally dont think Non residents should be able to enter draws. As little as the numbers supposedly are.
BC SASK YUKON NWT all dont allow non residents to enter draws. Why should we?
Id love to go hunt stone sheep without paying 50K usd by the way. So id much rather have BC change their policy instead of alberta changing ours.

Whats so wrong with a non resident canadian having to hire a guide? Ive done it in BC twice. Id do it again. The allocations in alberta are for non residents. People from out of province are non residents. Thats where you should fit in the system


Honestly if you moved to the coast where its warm and no snow to retire, thats great! But your no longer an Albertan. We are stuck here in this crappy -30 weather while you poor guys are cutting your grass in shorts. You shouldnt have the same opportunities as we do.

[walking buffalo]

Deer Hunter's post makes no sense to me.

How can he justify that Saskatchewan has it right yet BC has it wrong?

Both are taking the same posture.

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by marky_mark

Makes Sense to me
This is a resource that is being exploited by others
Theres nothing wrong with non resident hunters. We are just giving non residents too good of a deal.

The tag prices need to be higher. Whats a non resident tag? $120 bucks? Its $500 usd for a non resident antelope tag in colorado.
So higher tag prices and/or a government collected trophy fee

I personally dont think Non residents should be able to enter draws. As little as the numbers supposedly are.
BC SASK YUKON NWT all dont allow non residents to enter draws. Why should we?
Id love to go hunt stone sheep without paying 50K usd by the way. So id much rather have BC change their policy instead of alberta changing ours.

Whats so wrong with a non resident canadian having to hire a guide? Ive done it in BC twice. Id do it again. The allocations in alberta are for non residents. People from out of province are non residents. Thats where you should fit in the system


Honestly if you moved to the coast where its warm and no snow to retire, thats great! But your no longer an Albertan. We are stuck here in this crappy -30 weather while you poor guys are cutting your grass in shorts. You shouldnt have the same opportunities as we do.

Nothing wrong with hiring a guide.

For those of us that believe in the concept of maintaining wildlife as an entity managed by the government as a Public Trust,
HAVING to hire a guide goes against the pillars of the North American Model of Wildlife Conservation.


Maintaining unguided NR hunting opportunities in ALL jurisdictions is vital for the future of this activity.
The continued creep of privatizing access to Our Wildlife only leads in the direction of excluding People from hunting, sustains the degradation of our community and our traditions.

[marky_mark]

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

Nothing wrong with hiring a guide.

For those of us that believe in the concept of maintaining wildlife as an entity managed by the government as a Public Trust,
HAVING to hire a guide goes against the pillars of the North American Model of Wildlife Conservation.


Maintaining unguided NR hunting opportunities in ALL jurisdictions is vital for the future of this activity.
The continued creep of privatizing access to Our Wildlife only leads in the direction of excluding People from hunting, sustains the degradation of our community and our traditions.

How does hiring a guide go against the pillars of the model?
The outfitters dont own the animals. This isnt a high fence hunt. In our case it is the provincial govt that is in trust of our animals. So who exactly are they in trust for? Future generations of Albertans? Or for some guy who worked here for 3 months from Nova scotians as an example? Who do we owe it to, to protect and manage these animals for?


I dont see how non resident hunting opportunities are vital to our future? Do you think it will change the publics perception if a hunter from Texas shoots a grizzly bear with a guide or not? I do understand where youre coming from with opportunities being important. But those opportunities are allocated already through outfitters. Outfitted hunts in alberta are a bargain compared to other provinces and states. Id like to get my grand slam, and i know that it probably wont happen unless i move a few times or i get lucky on the lotto max.

The world has changed, times are different. When the model was developed there was barely any wildlife left in north america. Its been a total success! We have different issues today than we did back then and there is NO answer that will make everyone happy.

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by marky_mark

How does hiring a guide go against the pillars of the model?
The outfitters dont own the animals. This isnt a high fence hunt. In our case it is the provincial govt that is in trust of our animals. So who exactly are they in trust for? Future generations of Albertans? Or for some guy who worked here for 3 months from Nova scotians as an example? Who do we owe it to, to protect and manage these animals for?


I dont see how non resident hunting opportunities are vital to our future? Do you think it will change the publics perception if a hunter from Texas shoots a grizzly bear with a guide or not? I do understand where youre coming from with opportunities being important. But those opportunities are allocated already through outfitters. Outfitted hunts in alberta are a bargain compared to other provinces and states. Id like to get my grand slam, and i know that it probably wont happen unless i move a few times or i get lucky on the lotto max.

The world has changed, times are different. When the model was developed there was barely any wildlife left in north america. Its been a total success! We have different issues today than we did back then and there is NO answer that will make everyone happy.

A simple test to show if something is detrimental.

Expand the requirement to hire an outfitter to all hunting.

Do you still feel that this is not against the NA model?

We owe The Wildlife, not a particular person.


A Resident is a Resident....
There is no validity to your question of who has more rights when comparing a new resident to a longer term resident.


Glad you brought up the BC Grizz example.

When BC hunters were requesting support for their fight to keep the season open, Non Residents gave a nod and nothing else.
The requirement for NRs to hire an outfitter to hunt these animals eliminated 99% of hunters from having any skin in the game.

Expand on that. If NR had to hire an outfitter to hunt, how many hunters would drop out, not give an effort to maintain this system?

Dividing the hunting community into smaller groups dramatically weakens the ability to fight anti-hunting sentiment and legislation.
It really is as simple as that.


The world has changed in relation to the NA Model.
Most significantly, the expansion of allocating a percentage of allowable harvest exclusively to Outfitters, an action promoted purely for financial gain, which is against the model.


You would like to get your slam but can't afford it.
Thanks for proving my point.

[marky_mark]

your not making any sense
your spinning this discussion to justify yourself
Is you name Justin? Last name starts with a T?

A simple test to show if something is detrimental.

Expand the requirement to hire an outfitter to all hunting.

Do you still feel that this is not against the NA model?

This makes zero sense? Your grasping at straws here... Sure take anything to the polar opposite of what is currently successful and its going to be detrimental

A Resident is a Resident....
There is no validity to your question of who has more rights when comparing a new resident to a longer term resident

Im saying that if we should have resident requirements similar to other provinces. Then one would be a resident the other wouldn't qualify

Glad you brought up the BC Grizz example.

When BC hunters were requesting support for their fight to keep the season open, Non Residents gave a nod and nothing else.
The requirement for NRs to hire an outfitter to hunt these animals eliminated 99% of hunters from having any skin in the game.

Actually the non residents are fighting this just as much as the residents. DSC, SCI, WSF have all backed this fight from day 1.

If NR had to hire an outfitter to hunt, how many hunters would drop out, not give an effort to maintain this system?

Are you serious? Just because they cant come and hunt here for cheap you think they are going to stop hunt outright? Where do you get your numbers? Alberta outfitted hunts are some of the cheapest you can find. You wouldnt be breaking the bank going with an outfitter

Dividing the hunting community into smaller groups dramatically weakens the ability to fight anti-hunting sentiment and legislation.
It really is as simple as that

Whos dividing anything? We are all hunters. If you live in the area your a resident, if you dont your a non resident... Its like that everywhere else in the world.

[Deer Hunter]

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

Dividing the hunting community into smaller groups dramatically weakens the ability to fight anti-hunting sentiment and legislation.
It really is as simple as that.


The world has changed in relation to the NA Model.

Where did the anti-hunting groups fit in with the NA Model again?

You can't always claim that dividing the hunters is the first step to anti hunting legislation. I don't buy that.

No wonder nothing changes with the hunting regs in this province. Too many people afraid to stand up for future generations. Bunch of wannabe politicians determining the fate of our heritage.

[IronNoggin]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

Yes I told the ones I know who had two numbers to sort it out, they didn’t know the process.

Good to hear you acted. Methinks all can appreciate that!

Ummm...did you miss the part where certain stakeholders have put forth resolutions of change? I actually drafted one mysel and it was submitted, so yes I am doing what I can. Why would you suggest otherwise?

Wasn't suggesting otherwise. Don't know how you came to that??
BTW, why did you change (edit) your post from submitting nine resolutions to one? Just wondering is all...

Why do you think BC stepped up their measures? Likely it was an issue, like it is in Alberta.

Perhaps it was / is an issue. Personally I am completely unaware of it being so here, but it is entirely possible I guess. As in anything, leave an opening, and someone will likely take advantage of that...

As I said before, the template exists, and if it is such an outstanding issue in Alberta, I wonder why they are not taking direct steps to counter this?

Cheers,
Nog

[Deer Hunter]

Tell BC to share their Orcas if we are supposed to share our pronghorn.
Both happen to have the same chance of being drawn for future generations of hunters.

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by IronNoggin

Good to hear you acted. Methinks all can appreciate that!



Wasn't suggesting otherwise. Don't know how you came to that??
BTW, why did you change (edit) your post from submitting nine resolutions to one? Just wondering is all...



Perhaps it was / is an issue. Personally I am completely unaware of it being so here, but it is entirely possible I guess. As in anything, leave an opening, and someone will likely take advantage of that...

As I said before, the template exists, and if it is such an outstanding issue in Alberta, I wonder why they are not taking direct steps to counter this?

Cheers,
Nog

Typing on a phone and it auto corrected to nine, hit send, corrected and posted

LC

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by Deer Hunter

Tell BC to share their Orcas if we are supposed to share our pronghorn.
Both happen to have the same chance of being drawn for future generations of hunters.

What a cool looking mammal!

[Torkdiesel]

Originally Posted by Deer Hunter

Tell BC to share their Orcas if we are supposed to share our pronghorn.
Both happen to have the same chance of being drawn for future generations of hunters.

Yep, with 38,000 residents and non residents currently applying for those 1000 or so tags they give out it’s going to pretty limited.
Such is the nature of the beast I guess, until we start reducing hunter numbers

[Sako123]

Wow, I read 5 pages. Some very good points.

A couple observations from an Alberta resident hunter and taxpayer:

Alberta has evolved into the most liberal allocation of wildlife to non-residents in Canada.its really quite amazing and super disappointing from an Alberta taxpayer perspective. Albertans pay to manage this provincial resource and should not have to give up even one draw opportunity to a non-resident. Non draw species is all good for non residents and should not even require a Host.

The hosted hunts for non resident Alien should be discontinued. Any non resident Alien should have to be contracted through APOS. There are very few non resident Alien hosted hunts that are provided in accordance with the spirit and law. The program fosters and promotes abuse and creates a black market guiding industry. Unfortunately APOS is currently the biggest abusers of this program.

IMHO There is no way that a draw species should be allocated to APOS or any non-resident. Limited and controlled Whitetail, black bear, elk and birds should be it.

As for APOS members making a “livelihood “ give me a break, it’s a hobby that pays a little by using a public resource. I have much experience with APOS and I don’t know one outfitter that doesn’t have a real job. And the economic benefit touted by APOS is grossly over estimated.

Alberta has lost its way in managing our wildlife resources and have forgotten that they are stewards of this resource for Albertans and future Albertans. I don’t give a **** if someone from Ontario can’t come and kill one of our mule deer.

Sorry for the rant

[Deer Hunter]

Good points ^^^^

[35 whelen]

Originally Posted by Sako123

Wow, I read 5 pages. Some very good points.

A couple observations from an Alberta resident hunter and taxpayer:

Alberta has evolved into the most liberal allocation of wildlife to non-residents in Canada.its really quite amazing and super disappointing from an Alberta taxpayer perspective. Albertans pay to manage this provincial resource and should not have to give up even one draw opportunity to a non-resident. Non draw species is all good for non residents and should not even require a Host.

The hosted hunts for non resident Alien should be discontinued. Any non resident Alien should have to be contracted through APOS. There are very few non resident Alien hosted hunts that are provided in accordance with the spirit and law. The program fosters and promotes abuse and creates a black market guiding industry. Unfortunately APOS is currently the biggest abusers of this program.

IMHO There is no way that a draw species should be allocated to APOS or any non-resident. Limited and controlled Whitetail, black bear, elk and birds should be it.

As for APOS members making a “livelihood “ give me a break, it’s a hobby that pays a little by using a public resource. I have much experience with APOS and I don’t know one outfitter that doesn’t have a real job. And the economic benefit touted by APOS is grossly over estimated.

Alberta has lost its way in managing our wildlife resources and have forgotten that they are stewards of this resource for Albertans and future Albertans. I don’t give a **** if someone from Ontario can’t come and kill one of our mule deer.

Sorry for the rant

X2 also how I feel

[shunda2]

Don't be sorry for that RANT....You are right on!

[honda610]

We should simply follow the Saskatchewan model. With a few additions.
Must be a resident for 1 calendar year
Must have Alberta drivers liscence while hunting
Must pass the Alberta hunter education course. No equivalence allowed.
Eliminate Any and All tags that take a p1 or higher for non residents canadians, and foreign hunters. If you want to hunt alberta you can hunt a general tag for Wt deer or bear. If you want elk or moose hunt a zone with a outfitter that hunts a p0 zone.
Pretty sad when a Alberta resident has 2 maybe 3 chances at a Antelope in his life!!!!! In alberta were he or she lives. It takes 5 years to get a moose tag in some zones were outfitters take guys every year....
But they contribute to the economy......not more than my taxes and living here. Oh but its added value...bs