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09-04-2022, 05:39 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Turner Valley
Posts: 38
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Conditions attached to new PAL
My wife and I just renewed our PAL's. I removed the plastic cards and was about to shred the paper it was attached to until I saw the "cut along the dotted line". It says that I have to carry this piece of paper with my license at all times. So now I have to carry a piece of paper that is likely to deteriorate in 5 years when it has all the same information as the actual license? How long has this been the case?
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Those who are willing to surrender their freedom for security have always demanded that if they give up their full freedom it should also be taken from those not prepared to do so. - Frederick Hayek (The Road to Surfdom)
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09-04-2022, 05:57 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 3,458
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Surprise!
To the best of my knowledge, that has been a requirement since Day 1 of the PAL/RPAL licensing system. Although I've never heard of anyone being asked to produce the paper copy for inspection, it could happen.
We keep those paper documents in a secure location where they won't get damaged.
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“One of the sad signs of our times is that we have demonized those who produce, subsidized those who refuse to produce, and canonized those who complain.” - Thomas Sowell
“We seem to be getting closer and closer to a situation where nobody is responsible for what they did but we are all responsible for what somebody else did.”- Thomas Sowell
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09-04-2022, 06:10 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Turner Valley
Posts: 38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by urban rednek
To the best of my knowledge, that has been a requirement since Day 1 of the PAL/RPAL licensing system. Although I've never heard of anyone being asked to produce the paper copy for inspection, it could happen.
We keep those paper documents in a secure location where they won't get damaged.
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That would seem 'reasonable'. However under SPECIAL CONDITIONS it states
"Carry this document with your license card as you must be able to produce this document on demand if requested by a peace officer or other authority"
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Those who are willing to surrender their freedom for security have always demanded that if they give up their full freedom it should also be taken from those not prepared to do so. - Frederick Hayek (The Road to Surfdom)
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09-04-2022, 06:15 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,779
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gunnar
That would seem 'reasonable'. However under SPECIAL CONDITIONS it states
"Carry this document with your license card as you must be able to produce this document on demand if requested by a peace officer or other authority"
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This is not new, here’s a discussion on this site from 2011.
http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showthread.php?t=82752
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09-04-2022, 06:25 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: GP AB
Posts: 16,265
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For the record, to the best of my knowledge, nobody in Canada has *EVER* been charged for not producing that piece of paper. I keep mine with all my certificates for restricted, but the PAL in my wallet will just have to suffice for most purposes.
What you need to understand, is that if the government and it's professional bureaucrats aren't making rules, and generating paperwork, there would be no reason for them to exist (and cost taxpayers billions and billions in wages and benefits every year).
There isn't an LEO in Canada, or fish cop, who is going to ask for that piece of paper. Most don't know it exists. They may ask to see your PAL. Then, it's have a nice day, assuming you haven't broken any laws.
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'Once the monkeys learn they can vote themselves a banana, they'll never climb another tree.'. Robert Heinlein
'You can accomplish a lot more with a kind word and a gun, than with a kind word alone.' Al Capone
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09-04-2022, 06:58 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: alberta
Posts: 1,973
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laminate it
$ 4 bucks
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09-04-2022, 07:58 PM
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: WMU 303
Posts: 8,503
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I garbaged that paper as soon as I read it. My Non-restricted/Restricted license says "Standard conditions are attached to this license".
Quote:
Conditions
15 A chief firearms officer who issues a licence to an individual shall attach to it the condition that the individual shall report any changes in the individual’s name or address to a chief firearms officer within 30 days after the change.
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https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/.../FullText.html
I have no other conditions.
Therefore mine is GARBAGE. Keep it if that makes you sleep better.
These conditions were automatically attached to licensees of restricted and or prohibited firearms:
http://blueridgesc.ca/atts-and-standard-conditions-c42/
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09-04-2022, 08:31 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: St. Albert
Posts: 340
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Conditions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CNP
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The link above refers to conditions which were in effect in 2015. Those conditions are no longer valid.
You should have received a new set of conditions in the mail or with your PAL/RPAL if you renewed since June 2021.
The following Items (2-5 inc) from the above link are NO LONGER ALLOWED without obtaining an ATT.
2.Transportation of restricted firearms and/or prohibited firearms to and from any place a peace officer, firearms officer of Chief Firearms Officer (CFO) is located for verification, registration or disposal in accordance with the Firearms Act or Part III of the Criminal Code.
3.Transportation of restricted firearms and/or prohibited firearms to and from a business that holds a licence authorizing it to repair or appraise prohibited or restricted firearms.
4.Transportation of restricted firearms and/or prohibited firearms to and from a gun show.
5.Transportation of restricted firearms and/or prohibited firearms to a port of exit, in order to take them outside Canada and from a port of entry.
RCMP GRC 5641-1e (2021-6)
The changes suck but I wouldn't want anyone getting in trouble accidentally.
Phil
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09-05-2022, 08:12 AM
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Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Turner Valley
Posts: 38
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Thanks everyone,
That clarify's things for me.
In the past I probably just threw the paper away. I believe the only time I have been asked to produce my PAL is when purchasing powder or ammunition. I think I was asked when bringing firearms back into Canada, but I have only produced the credit card version. We both have RPAL's, but neither have any Restricted Firearms at the moment so there is only 1 special condition. Have never been asked to produce by F&W and have never been stopped by the police when I had firearms with me.
Just to clarify the quote I originally gave about having to carry the piece of paper AND the license is one of the SPECIAL CONDITIONS. Standard conditions state I need to inform them of my address change within 30 days of moving. So technically, I suppose I am to carry the piece of paper which just seems to add a layer of needless regulation and the potential to catch people committing a crime.
__________________
Those who are willing to surrender their freedom for security have always demanded that if they give up their full freedom it should also be taken from those not prepared to do so. - Frederick Hayek (The Road to Surfdom)
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09-05-2022, 09:52 AM
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Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 6,278
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When you have a ATC (Authorization to Carry) they include 'Special Conditions' which are now the paper to be cut along doted line. The paper needs to be produced when requested by Peace Officer. Also applies to ATT's.
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11-01-2022, 11:14 AM
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Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Kamloops BC
Posts: 276
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Pm box
Gunnar your pm box is full  I need to message you .
Cheers RJ
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The 284 WIN - is the Original Short Magnum !
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11-01-2022, 01:40 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Caroline
Posts: 7,299
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CNP
Therefore mine is GARBAGE. Keep it if that makes you sleep better.
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Mine has always been stored in the garbage.
What an asinine stipulation, next level stupidity.
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Two reasons you may think CO2 is a pollutant
1.You weren't paying attention in grade 5
2. You're stupid
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11-01-2022, 02:53 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 315
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Mine is next to my PAL in my wallet, accidentally torn in 4 pieces.
They said I have to produce it, if asked, but they didn't say it had to be in decent shape!
Agreed though, more pointless Federal shenanigans.
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11-01-2022, 03:23 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: May 2022
Location: Ontario
Posts: 26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gunnar
My wife and I just renewed our PAL's. I removed the plastic cards and was about to shred the paper it was attached to until I saw the "cut along the dotted line". It says that I have to carry this piece of paper with my license at all times. So now I have to carry a piece of paper that is likely to deteriorate in 5 years when it has all the same information as the actual license? How long has this been the case?
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It is absolute pointless keeping it.
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