bare shaft accuracy?

BigRackLover · #1 09-05-2009, 07:58 PM

So I have good groups with fletchings and a good paper test.

Just for funzies, I shot a non-fletched arrow with a field tip. It was way off at 25 yards and did not fly 'in line'. It hit the target but it was way off.

Is this something to be concerned about? Should my bow (and me) be able to shoot bare shaft arrows?

russ · #2 09-05-2009, 09:52 PM

It wouldn't hurt to try and get things lined up a little better, the straighter your arrow is flying the better the penetration.

ArchJeepR · #3 09-06-2009, 01:26 AM

What spine are the new arrows?
Fletchings help damp some of the wobble from nock travel and arrow flex. I don't think you should be concerned.

russ · #4 09-06-2009, 05:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArchJeepR

What spine are the new arrows?
Fletchings help damp some of the wobble from nock travel and arrow flex. I don't think you should be concerned.

the bare shaft vs fletched shaft is indicating the centre shot isn't correct. Why would you suggest not fixing it?

Trav · #5 09-06-2009, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by russ

the bare shaft vs fletched shaft is indicating the centre shot isn't correct. Why would you suggest not fixing it?

x2

whynot get it so that all shafts bare and fletched hit the same place it will make the bow shoot better and his groups would shrink. If the arrow absorbs all the energy it will penetrate better

BigRackLover · #6 09-06-2009, 02:05 PM

so if my paper test is good (with fletchings), how do I go about tuning the bare shaft? Do I paper test the bare shaft at close range and start from there?

I just shot the bare shaft at 25yards and it was over 12 inches to the right and 6 inches high.

I'm not getting 10x groups at 25 yards, mostly the size of my fist.

russ · #7 09-06-2009, 06:37 PM

the bare shaft planing test is kinda similar to broadhead tuning in that one arrow has more steering surfaces than the other.

here's some resource for you
http://www.edersbow.com/bare-shaft-arrow-tuning/
http://www.bowcast.com/content/view/212/55/

petew · #8 09-07-2009, 10:00 PM

Just for giggles re-do your paper test at about 15 yards and see just how well the arrow is flying .

Pete

russ · #9 09-08-2009, 03:52 AM

??
Pete, most 1/2 tuned bows will punch bullet holes by that time.

dxt08 · #10 09-08-2009, 07:16 AM

i have been shooting for 25 years and never heard of anyone rying to tune there bow with bare arrows????? if someone has i want to see a video .... IMO i think trying to tune a bow this way is just well plain dumb....

russ · #11 09-08-2009, 07:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dxt08

i have been shooting for 25 years and never heard of anyone rying to tune there bow with bare arrows????? if someone has i want to see a video .... IMO i think trying to tune a bow this way is just well plain dumb....

then there's a lot of dumb people out there, myself included.

BigRackLover · #12 09-08-2009, 07:33 AM

Ok - here's an update.

I tuned for broadheads and managed to get them going like field points by moving my arrow rest up/down left/right. I'm clanging arrows now at 25meters - with mechanicals, fixed blades, fields points, both with 2" fletchings and FOBs

I have not paper tested again nor shot a bare shaft.

I read that bare shaft tuning is ONE method, paper testing is another for tuning your bow. So my question is this:

With the correct setup should my:
bare shaft arrows produce bullet holes through paper?
bare shaft arrows hit the same place as my fletched arrows?
fletched arrows produce bullet holes through paper?
fletched arrows have the same groups for broadheads and field points?

If the answer is yes to all these, and the method to tuning is "move stuff until it works", what order do you tune in?

I probably won't be doing anything this week again as the opener is tommorow and I'm good to go at 25meters, but I'm just wondering if there is a method to all this tuning madness. I even took out a couple books from the library and they are helping.

russ · #13 09-08-2009, 08:12 AM

yes to all...

Before shooting my bow
I'll will select an arrow according to my software (unlikely) or I will set the draw weight so that the arrow I'm planning to use is indicated as optimum to slightly weak spine.
Check the timing marks, if I'm shooting a 2 cam or a hybrid - both of them perform far better when in time.
Check the brace height, is it in spec?
Check the axle to axle, is it in spec?
Check tiller or adjust limbs so they're backed off evenly from bottomed out (depends on bow design)

If any of these are out of whack, correct them and RE-measure!

Next step before shooting...

I rough in the center shot, I put center of the grip, string & arrow in a straight line

and then I rough in my nock height. I have a Medicine Stone so I set my arrow so it's going through the berger hole (that's the that people bolt the rest too now a days) and the bubble level favouring the back of the arrow about 1/3rd. (it works out to about 1/8-3/16" above parallel)

Now I shoot...

I go shoot my bow, and do a french tuning or plumb bob test to refine my centershot to that particular nock height set as per my medicine stone.

next - I fine tune my nock height @ 20 yds by shooting @ a horizontal piece of tape that's easy to see. If all of the arrows from well executed shots are in the tape, I leave it alone.

If I find that I've had to refine my nock height, I re-do the plumb bob test. There's a weird relationship between centershot & nock height. Change nock height can change where centre shot needs to be BUT it doesn't work the other way around

Once this is all done...

Now, if this is my hunting set up, I put on my broadheads and tune to them. I do it 20 yds first and then I'll move to 40 yds and refine it again.

Alternatively, you can do as MatthewsArcher does - just go and shoot your bow. Seems to work quite well for him... a 1395 FITA this summer

dxt08 · #14 09-08-2009, 08:26 AM

i am not say anyone is dumb for doing this .... it is my own opinion ... i do not have bare arrows to do this with i buy arrows with the flecthing ... when i do all my shooting it is with fleching so why not tune your bow with fletching....

CNP · #15 09-08-2009, 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dxt08

i am not say anyone is dumb for doing this .... it is my own opinion ... i do not have bare arrows to do this with i buy arrows with the flecthing ... when i do all my shooting it is with fleching so why not tune your bow with fletching....

Well you didn't say anyone in particular was dumb lol you did claim that the process was "just well plain dumb"...

It's just another method of tuning your arrows to your bow or your bow to your arrows.

I've used it primarily to determine if my arrows were correctly spined (trad bows) and correct knock point. I don't do it for compound bows but that is not saying you can't use it for compound bows. If you can get your broadheads to hit where your field points do by adjusting your centre shot (vertically and laterally) then all is well......but if you can't, why not try something different. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing repeatedly and expecting different results.

http://bowmaker.net/tuning.htm

BigRackLover · #16 09-08-2009, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ehntr

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing repeatedly and expecting different results.

I've always liked that line.

russ · #17 09-08-2009, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dxt08

i am not say anyone is dumb for doing this .... it is my own opinion ... i do not have bare arrows to do this with i buy arrows with the flecthing ... when i do all my shooting it is with fleching so why not tune your bow with fletching....

shooting bare shafted arrows is an excellent way to determine if you have clearance issues.

calgarychef · #18 09-08-2009, 02:03 PM

How many times have we heard "my arrows flew well but when i changed to broadheads they started shooting bad" If a bow groups a bareshaft in the same spot as a fletched arrow then they will work with any point of the same weight that you used to bareshaft with. Gets rid of the need to use mechanicals. and it's definately not stupid to experiment and get the best arrow flight you can.

the chef

dxt08 · #19 09-08-2009, 08:42 PM

my arrows fly the same with any piont on them ... and never did any bare shaft tunning

petew · #20 09-08-2009, 09:43 PM

Rus:
It would surprise you how many will paper tune bullet holes point blank to 10 feet and get terrible tears at 15 to 20 yards.
It always makes me smile when someone won't shoot a paper at 15 to 20, yet they claim to be tuned.
Any way paper tuning is just the starting place for tuning. after that you compare bare shaft to fletched shaft and adjust, then fletched point to broadheads and adjust. Now you are realy tuned.

Pete

russ · #21 09-09-2009, 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by petew

Rus:
It would surprise you how many will paper tune bullet holes point blank to 10 feet and get terrible tears at 15 to 20 yards.
It always makes me smile when someone won't shoot a paper at 15 to 20, yet they claim to be tuned.
Any way paper tuning is just the starting place for tuning. after that you compare bare shaft to fletched shaft and adjust, then fletched point to broadheads and adjust. Now you are realy tuned.

Pete

actually Pete I think paper tuning is colossally over rated.

calgarychef · #22 09-09-2009, 07:35 PM

Dxt...you're lucky! You didn't have to tune your arrows and you can huntiwithout worrying about it. Someday down the line if your arras start going wonky then you can start tuning.

slingshot27 · #23 05-26-2014, 08:50 PM

how do exactly you bare shaft tune. some of the links are broken and i dont under stand what exactly i move if my arrows are flying one way vs hitting all the same spot

NBFK · #24 05-26-2014, 10:29 PM

Fobs are gay and I'd retire that classic and get a new bow.

Edit ancient thread....... I hope you stopped shooting fobs and I when are you getting your new bear?

calgarychef · #25 05-26-2014, 10:34 PM

Shoot a group of fletched arrows, then shoot the same number of up fletched arrows, start close for this. If they all group roughly together things are looking good, now back up another 5 yards and do it again. If they group together keep going back. If they don't group together you have tuning issues, nock point, Center shot adjustment, spine adjustment (done through point weight). The un fletched will naturally group more inconsistently than the fletched but look at them as an average rather than individual arrows. There's lots of info on the net, and I ain't got time to explain it all but it does work. Remember NEVER BARESHAFT BROADHEADS, they can take right the heck off on a crazy flight path.

catnthehat · #26 05-26-2014, 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dxt08

i have been shooting for 25 years and never heard of anyone rying to tune there bow with bare arrows????? if someone has i want to see a video .... IMO i think trying to tune a bow this way is just well plain dumb....

?? people have been bare shaft tuning for over 40 years, even with recurves.

I don't mind you, as I shoot of the shelf and not centershot, but I do tune my arrows and bows together.
Cat

L.O.S.T.Arrow · #27 05-27-2014, 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by petew

Rus:
It would surprise you how many will paper tune bullet holes point blank to 10 feet and get terrible tears at 15 to 20 yards.
It always makes me smile when someone won't shoot a paper at 15 to 20, yet they claim to be tuned.
Any way paper tuning is just the starting place for tuning. after that you compare bare shaft to fletched shaft and adjust, then fletched point to broadheads and adjust. Now you are realy tuned.

Pete

X2...arrow tune issues can involve arrow porpoising [up and down movement] or fishtailing [side to side " wobble"] or a combination of the both called oscillating...

There are points in an erratic arrow flight that the arrow will straighten out...usually as Pete stated at 10 yards...20 yards

however at 5 yards -15 yards there will be huge tears...and they can be oppiste at different distances as the arrow is erratic...[meaning up tear at 5yds and down tear at 15 yards]

Good paper tune is a bullet hole from at all distances from point blank [5 yds] to 20 yards and on...

Neil

Settle&release · #28 05-29-2014, 05:49 AM

Check out the archerytalk forum about paper tuning. The nuts and bolts guy clarified a lot of tuning questions I had. You would be suprised to see how much fetching actually helps out. Often times they have already taken over before the arrow reaches 15 yards. I shoot 3° helical gold tip arrows and the fletching has definitely taken over by 15 yards

L.O.S.T.Arrow · #29 05-30-2014, 07:55 AM

FYI bare shaft tuning will give you group tuning...however for analizing arrow flight...Fishtailing for example...unless you have a totally non-directional target bare shaft tuning is useless for that....you still will have to paper tune...as with vaned arrows

Neil

normanrd · #30 06-19-2014, 10:43 PM

If you shoot the bare shaft from 25 or so yards you can see the shaft fly, so maybe not so much need for a non-directional target? I'll bare shaft at 25 or 30 to make sure I'm shooting darts. The purpose of fletching is to stabilize arrow flight, and as we all know it is amazingly good at performing that task. Fletching can only serve to mask less than perfect arrow flight. IMO :-). Just for fun shoot a bare shaft through paper as you would a fletched shaft. Likely will show a tear when a fletched arrow shows a bullet hole.