Southern AB gun store accused of selling guns illegally

[brendan's dad]

Originally Posted by Newview01

Were those the only exhibits seized by the crown? My understanding would be that they would seize his assets as part of the investigation. I could be wrong.

My other point was that the crown destroys the exhibits as opposed to selling them for a profit, if the defendant is guilty. This should not be the case.

There is no mention of a search warrant in the judgement document, so I 99% sure there was no other search and seizure because it would most definitely be part of the Judge's rational.

Also,

There is not a police force in Canada that will include firearms and related items in their "property auctions". It is due to public perception and the negative publicity that would be generated if a firearm sold at the "property auction" was then latter found at a crime scene.

[Grizzly Adams]

Let's remember, none of the allegations have been proven in court. Even Bill Cosby gets to walk.

Grizz

[purgatory.sv]

Originally Posted by Gifted Intuitive

First one has to understand or grasp the desire to confiscate.

Please read this:

http://www.canlii.org/en/ab/abqb/doc...04abqb831.html

What i take from this document is you must be licensed and if a transaction is to take place that requires the license you must validate that the individual making the purchase has one if the transaction requires it.
The accused in this document still participate in the world,and attends gun shows as both a vender and customer. When i dealt with him ,my obligation was to alway show my license when required,not to be asked.

If you are entering into a transaction in today's world it is best to follow the protocol for that transaction.

[gitrdun]

Originally Posted by purgatory.sv

What i take from this document is you must be licensed and if a transaction is to take place that requires the license you must validate that the individual making the purchase has one if the transaction requires it.
The accused in this document still participate in the world,and attends gun shows as both a vender and customer. When i dealt with him ,my obligation was to alway show my license when required,not to be asked.

If you are entering into a transaction in today's world it is best to follow the protocol for that transaction.

Yes indeed. I purchase my reloading stuff, .22 shells and have purchase some rifles from Fly's Etc. in High River. The guys there know that I have a valid RPAL but when I go to the cash register, the lady always asks for my license and I present it without hesitation. It's the law, best to follow it.

[bobinthesky]

Originally Posted by gitrdun

The news report claimed that they had 1000 firearms and 1 million rounds of ammo. Heck, last time I was at Wholesale sports, they couldn't even make such a claim. Sounds like a bunch of trumped of BS to me on the cop's part.

I was in Wholesale sports today and counted roughly 90,000 rounds of 223 ammo on a couple of pallets, that's almost a tenth of a million rounds in just one caliber! They were easy to count being as they were in cases of 1000 and 500 mostly. I didn't even bother trying to count rimfire and shotgun shells but a million rounds doesn't sound unrealistic to me, I have no idea how many guns in the back though.

[covey ridge]

Originally Posted by alta270

Considering this is in Cardson, I take it you mean a prominent member of the Mormon church? I ask because they have a very specific doctrine as outline in the following quote, which comes from https://www.lds.org/manual/doctrine-...-laws?lang=eng

Abraham Lincoln once observed: “Bad laws, if they exist, should be repealed as soon as possible; still, while they continue in force, they should be religiously observed.” This is the attitude of the Church in regard to law observance. We agree with the author of the following statement: “In reality the man who defies or flouts the law is like the proverbial fool who saws away the plank on which he sits, and a disrespect or disregard for law is always the first sign of a disintegrating society. Respect for law is the most fundamental of all social virtues, for the alternative to the rule of law is that of violence and anarchy.” (Case and Comment. March/April issue, 1965, p. 20.) There is no reason or justification for men to disregard or break the law or try to take it into their own hands

You do seem to find religion in most of your posts

[covey ridge]

Media seem to exaggerate all firearm related stuff. I am aware of a sales person that legally sold a 30-06 rifle for the purpose of hunting. The buyer that was dressed in hunter camo asked for ammo and said he did not mind what kind but wanted hunting stuff and wanted cheaper price. He got Remington 180 grain bronze tip.

The buyer, a new Canadian was attested a couple days later in Toronto with the rifle sawed down. He was attempting an honor killing. A picture if the sawed off gun made the cover of the Calgary Sun. The story reported that the firearm was illegal and purchased from Calgary Gun Store. They did not mention that the firearm was made illegal after purchase. They also seemed to make much of the fact that the gun was loaded with bronze bullets and which powerful enough to kill moose and large bear.

[Gifted Intuitive]

Originally Posted by purgatory.sv

What i take from this document is you must be licensed and if a transaction is to take place that requires the license you must validate that the individual making the purchase has one if the transaction requires it.
The accused in this document still participate in the world,and attends gun shows as both a vender and customer. When i dealt with him ,my obligation was to alway show my license when required,not to be asked.

If you are entering into a transaction in today's world it is best to follow the protocol for that transaction.

I quote from above :"The accused in this document still participate in the world, and attends gun shows as both a vendor and customer."

This court case cost Blair around $100,000 and this debt cost him his business.
The "Desire to confiscate" resulted in a store closure. Having a business confiscated and having a table at a gun show are not comparable. A very effective strategy to confiscate the "purpose of firearms".

Two other gun stores in Edmonton were forced out of business because of legal harassment.
Can you name them ?

[purgatory.sv]

You are correct a table is not the same.

no.

[Newview01]

Heard on Friday (from someone who spoke directly with the owners of K&D) that the RCMP officer who is at the head of this investigation was also one of the top dogs of the High River fiasco. Said officer was using someone else's PAL, it was in fact checked, but apparently they didn't check close enough or couldn't tell that it was someone else's. Also his son was one who had purchased a firearm while not holding a PAL (I guess he was underage), son was also busted drinking and driving but got away with either the D&D or purchasing the firearm illegally.

Long story short, my understanding is that it is a mess for ridiculous reasons.

If anyone has better facts or can add to this, I would be happy to change what I have written.

[Unregistered user]

Interesting update, thanks.

[Pathfinder76]

Sounds like a heyday for a good lawyer.

[New Hunter Okotoks]

I wonder if the RCMP would revoke the Liquor License and charge the Owner's at the Saddledome or Roger's Place if one of their Staff did not check a patron's identification close enough?

[boah]

Originally Posted by Newview01

Heard on Friday (from someone who spoke directly with the owners of K&D) that the RCMP officer who is at the head of this investigation was also one of the top dogs of the High River fiasco. Said officer was using someone else's PAL, it was in fact checked, but apparently they didn't check close enough or couldn't tell that it was someone else's. Also his son was one who had purchased a firearm while not holding a PAL (I guess he was underage), son was also busted drinking and driving but got away with either the D&D or purchasing the firearm illegally.

Long story short, my understanding is that it is a mess for ridiculous reasons.

If anyone has better facts or can add to this, I would be happy to change what I have written.

I'm no lawyer, but wouldn't the highlighted things be illegal? Or, at least, the first one be entrapment??

[Scott N]

Originally Posted by boah

I'm no lawyer, but wouldn't the highlighted things be illegal? Or, at least, the first one be entrapment??

That seems to be how the RCMP roll these days.

[1899b]

Originally Posted by boah

I'm no lawyer, but wouldn't the highlighted things be illegal? Or, at least, the first one be entrapment??

No different than all the "Mr. Big" RCMP covert investigations used over the years. I grew up in McMurray and I know of one RCMP member "partying it up" with a prominent cocaine dealer and his group over a few months span to entrap the lot back in the day. The RCMP member was from Quebec and brought in to infiltrate the whole deal. He went to the gym i went to and i was picked for jury duty for the case but i was unable to be on the jury as i knew/knew of the majority of the defendants

Anyway, google "Mr Big" RCMP. Entrapment is used all the time...

[nube]

I'm not a fan of RCMP at all after living in Sherwood Park my whole life and seeing what goes on. There are some major issues going on in my own neighborhood that have been brought to their attention but all they seem to want to do is give out speeding tickets and harrass people that don't put a seatbelt on in the mall parking lot....
How many drunk driving incidents and deaths are there every year and how many checkstops does a guy see every year?
I saw ONE speed trap in the local playground zone next to my house this year...
Protect he public my arse!

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by 1899b

No different than all the "Mr. Big" RCMP covert investigations used over the years. I grew up in McMurray and I know of one RCMP member "partying it up" with a prominent cocaine dealer and his group over a few months span to entrap the lot back in the day. The RCMP member was from Quebec and brought in to infiltrate the whole deal. He went to the gym i went to and i was picked for jury duty for the case but i was unable to be on the jury as i knew/knew of the majority of the defendants

Anyway, google "Mr Big" RCMP. Entrapment is used all the time...

It is completely different.

[1899b]

Originally Posted by chuck

It is completely different.

An RCMP officer sends his son in to buy a firearm without the applicable licensing sounds along the same lines to me. A set up is a setup. But like anything and everything, definitely open to each individuals interpretation. Just like court cases...

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by Newview01

Heard on Friday (from someone who spoke directly with the owners of K&D) that the RCMP officer who is at the head of this investigation was also one of the top dogs of the High River fiasco. Said officer was using someone else's PAL, it was in fact checked, but apparently they didn't check close enough or couldn't tell that it was someone else's. Also his son was one who had purchased a firearm while not holding a PAL (I guess he was underage), son was also busted drinking and driving but got away with either the D&D or purchasing the firearm illegally.

Long story short, my understanding is that it is a mess for ridiculous reasons.

If anyone has better facts or can add to this, I would be happy to change what I have written.

The son should definitely be charged with an offense, as he is not even an officer, and what he dd was illegal. As for using someone else's PAL, the person that let his PAL be used should be charged, as should the officer that used it. If the PAL was used without the owners consent , the officer should definitelybbe charged .

[gunluvr]

Originally Posted by boah

I'm no lawyer, but wouldn't the highlighted things be illegal? Or, at least, the first one be entrapment??

Many "law enforcement" tactics used by the RCMP can be described as being "greasy". Just like average criminals, the RCMP will do whatever they think they can get away with. A tarnished image is no concern when you believe you are "above the law".

[play.soccer]

Netflix has a series called the true confessions. The very first episode portrays the queens cowboys in all their Mr big glory. Good watch. You might be mad by the end of it though because our glorious rcmp are pretty shady.

[Newview01]

Clarification on the son's involvement. Was drinking and driving underage. Had a firearm in the vehicle. Mysteriously the the DUI charge disappeared but K&D got slapped with the charges of selling the firearm to the kid, which they simply did not.

I understand they are also being charged with improper storage (although they passed the yearly inspections that address this).

Hopefully someone has more details.

[Newview01]

Here is an article that ought to infuriate the average gun owner.

http://calgaryherald.com/news/local-...4-536657036981

Increasing levels of gun violence in the city weighs heavily on the mind of the city’s police chief

In a year-end interview with Postmedia last month, Calgary police Chief Roger Chaffin said the increase in gun crime adds a dangerous new dimension to maintaining law and order in the city.

“It goes along with the high presence of guns in the city right now, plus the willingness to use guns,” he said.

“It’s all part of the same story with all the dysfunction going on right now, in terms of addictions and downturns in the economy.”

The ongoing issue was again brought to the forefront during November’s city budget deliberations, during which police brass asked for a $14.3-million funding increase to maintain service levels in the city.

Between January and August, police responded to 62 shootings within city limits.
That compares with 45 during the same period last year.

Of the city’s 28 murders in 2017, a third involved fatal shootings.

Chaffin attributed the uptick in gun crime to a significant increase in the availability of firearms to Calgary criminals.

“Once, it would be rare for us to ever see a gun,” he said.

“If you pulled someone over in an arrest, a gun would be a pretty unique situation — now it’s a pretty common situation.

“Now, if you stop a stolen vehicle, there’ll be guns inside that car. If you’re going to be inside a house where there’s drugs, there’ll be guns inside that house.”

The use of guns in assaults and violent score-settling between Calgary’s criminals is extremely troubling to police — mainly due to the seemingly indiscriminate way in which they’re used, with little regard for bystanders or those forced to witness these violent acts.

Despite a common belief the firearms are being smuggled north across the border from the United States, Chaffin said many of the guns police see used in violent crime are sourced locally.

“A lot of them are being obtained through break-and-enters in homes that are being targeted for their presence of weapons,” he said.

“Even with safes, offenders are able to manipulate them fairly easily to get the weapons out.”

According to the RCMP, gun thefts have spiked over the past three years, increasing 66 per cent during that period.

The force reports more than 4,500 firearms were stolen across the province in the past four years.

That averages out to about three firearms taken per day in Alberta.
As well, Mounties came into contact with nearly 8,000 firearms last year, seizing more than half of them.

Over the past five years, Alberta’s Law Enforcement Response Team (ALERT) has seized close to 800 firearms and, as of March of this year, seized 189 guns so far in 2016-17.

That’s up from 141 the year before and is closing in on their record year in 2013-14 when 197 guns were taken off the streets.

Over 1,000 guns and a million rounds of ammo were seized from a Cardston, Alta. gun shop in months-long firearms trafficking investigation by ALERT.

In June, investigators from ALERT laid firearms trafficking charges against the owners of a Cardston retailer, seizing a thousand guns and over one million rounds of ammunition.

During the five-month investigation into the store, investigators alleged the owners put public safety at risk by selling firearms and ammunition to customers without ensuring they held valid firearms licences at the time of sale.

“Weapons are being purchased within the province and being handed off to friends, so it makes it difficult to track who has weapons,” Chaffin said.
This, he said, adds even more stress to the everyday realities of policing in Calgary.

“With all of these shootings, it really raises the tension about the need to be safe, and worry about that one call you’re going to go to where a gun’s going to be pointed at you.”

Apparently journalists are judge and jury nowadays, seeing as these "allegations" have yet to be proven in court.

[Battle Rat]

Jeez, maybe they should reduce the availability of guns to the bad guys by stopping them from steeling them. I.e tougher sentences.

[Scott N]

It's starting to seem to me that Chaffin is in over his head as the police chief. Morale of the force sure seems to be in the tank, maybe it's because he's an idiot. At least Hansen seemed to have the respect of the force.

[bobtodrick]

Right in the highlighted portion of your text it is stated these are allegations.
You're not happy unless your being a **** disturber, are you?

[The_Gun_Boy]

[Xbolt7mm]

Originally Posted by Wiz

If a gun store is selling firearms without checking for valid PALs, than I am happy they are being prosecuted. I do not want people or groups aquiring firearms illegally. This just brings more harm to law-abiding firearms owners.

furthermore, i think there are pleanty other officers out there ensuring childeen are being protected. (dont be silly).

This guy’s got it,,,,,except i would imagine it may have been more of a selling ammunition without the proper documents as well.

[Newview01]

Originally Posted by bobtodrick

Right in the highlighted portion of your text it is stated these are allegations.
You're not happy unless your being a **** disturber, are you?

Explain yourself. I stated that they were allegations. My point with the post is that this particular “journalist” chose to present the information with strong bias, clearly pushing an agenda. Not only that but considering that they are allegations should be reason not to group them with common criminals. The owners of the store in Cardston would have a pretty strong case for libel against this journalist. If you can’t see that, I don’t know what to say.