Arrow Weight

[DirtShooter]

Hey so I've been watching some Ranch Fairy youtube videos on arrow weights which got me thinking about my set up and wanting a heavier arrow.

I currently shoot an older Bowtec with new strings/rest/sight 60lb draw weight with Goldtip Hunter XT 340 spline arrows.

I knocked the insert out and found they were only 12 grains!!! My arrows are about 285+- grains without an insert so all in all they barely squeak to 300 grains and topped with my 100gr broadhead that's about 400 grains.

I'd like a 500 grain arrow so my question is can I buy a 100 grain insert for these arrows?

Sadly I wish I knew more about arrows before stepping foot into a bow shop looking for a bow years ago.

[Lefty-Canuck]

Ranch Fairy… I don’t put much weight into his line of thinking. I have passed through full grown bull elk diagonally with a 385gr arrow. Currently my arrow is 440gr.

Your 340 SPINE arrow with 200gr up front is likely going to be too weak, you will likely need at least a 300 spine depending on other factor like draw length and draw poundage.

Ask yourself how you hunt, set your arrow up based on that.

Spot and stalk?
Stands?
Blinds?
Tight bush?
Open country?

Based on these factors make your decision.

If you always hunt a blind or stand and never shoot over 30 yards, you can use the heaviest arrow you want, yardage mistake won’t have much effect.

I like to have a compromise between speed and weight, 440gr at 290fps meets this criteria for me.

LC

[DirtShooter]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

Ranch Fairy… I don’t put much weight into his line of thinking. I have passed through full grown bull elk diagonally with a 385gr arrow. Currently my arrow is 440gr.

Your 340 SPINE arrow with 200gr up front is likely going to be too weak, you will likely need at least a 300 spine depending on other factor like draw length and draw poundage.

Ask yourself how you hunt, set your arrow up based on that.

Spot and stalk?
Stands?
Blinds?
Tight bush?
Open country?

Based on these factors make your decision.

If you always hunt a blind or stand and never shoot over 30 yards, you can use the heaviest arrow you want, yardage mistake won’t have much effect.

I like to have a compromise between speed and weight, 440gr at 290fps meets this criteria for me.

LC

Thanks, was hoping not to have to replace my arrows. I'd say 40-50 yards max is what I am comfortable with, the one and only time I had a bull in my sights I missed at little over 60 yards.

Spot and stalk/stand - a mix of the two, and I believe my draw length is 28, I'm a pretty average individual lol.

[brendan's dad]

Since you run Gold Tip arrows, you could buy a fact weight wrench and add 30-40 of fact weights to your current inserts.

[DirtShooter]

Originally Posted by brendan's dad

Since you run Gold Tip arrows, you could buy a fact weight wrench and add 30-40 of fact weights to your current inserts.

I'll look into this, never heard of it until now. Thanks.

Others have suggested a heavier broadhead as well.

[Coiloil37]

You can buy 50 and 100 grain brass inserts for those arrows. The last time I bought them was from 3riversarchery.
I shot 70lbs, 30” DL with 340 spine goldtip XT’s and 200 grains up front and had zero issues tuning them. I shot that exact setup circa 2006-2009 with perhaps a doz-doz and a half different bows and had no problems bareshaft and broadhead tuning all of them. Try it and if your capable of tuning a bow you won’t have any trouble with it.
I’m not interested in starting a debate but from my experience, properly tuned, structurally sound and all else equal… heavier always penetrates further.

[DirtShooter]

Originally Posted by Coiloil37

You can buy 50 and 100 grain brass inserts for those arrows. The last time I bought them was from 3riversarchery.
I shot 70lbs, 30” DL with 340 spine goldtip XT’s and 200 grains up front and had zero issues tuning them. I shot that exact setup circa 2006-2009 with perhaps a doz-doz and a half different bows and had no problems bareshaft and broadhead tuning all of them. Try it and if your capable of tuning a bow you won’t have any trouble with it.
I’m not interested in starting a debate but from my experience, properly tuned, structurally sound and all else equal… heavier always penetrates further.

I was hoping you'd comment, thanks.

Lots of good info in this thread, inserts are cheaper than new arrows so I'll try that and a heavier broadhead and go from there.

[russ]

Arrows are dynamic device. If you change one portion of the arrow, eg spine or point weight, then another part of the arrow needs to change. That may be spine or the size of the vanes for example. It's far more important that the shafts are flying straight and true rather than being heavy and relying on sheer mass to penetrate and pass through.

[ramonmark]

I have an arrow wrench and a bunch of weights in various sizes and weights if you wanna try one arrow for fun. Like others said tho, the arrow is dynamic. If you're tuned now the arrow will become weak by add I'll ng weight to the front or back. BUT, if you have a couple inches to spare you can tune the arrow to the bow much like a trad shooter. Pop the weights in, shoot. If your weak cut off 1/8"-1/4" of the back off that arrowat a time. Shoot and repeat. You might be able to get the arrows to tune. If not, you're only out 1 arrow and you didn't have to buy a wrench or weights either. I'm in st Albert if you want to take me up on the offer. I even have the fletching jig and load of vanes. If all goes well I can re fletch after the experiment

[BobH]

500 grain arrow out of a 60lb 28" draw bow will work just fine but would not be my choice for spot and stalk. Suggest balancing some of the Ranch Fairy opinions with those from Aron Snyder or the Elk Shape podcast before spending a bunch of $ on arrows. I like to pick my arrow speed then design the arrow. Current setup is 485 grain arrow, 69 lb, 30.5" draw. Haven't shot through a chrono but expect I am around 285 fps.

[nekred]

There are three parameters for an arrow that are important,

Dynamic spine is number is most important and it is because of archers paradox, as the bow string moves forward it transfers energy to the arrow and the rate of energy transfer is dependent on many factors. However these can be quantified by many arrow selection programs and is dependent on draw length, draw weight, and bow geometry (brace height etc.) You can have 4 types of 60 lb bows and all will provide differing amounts of energy, the more energy provided the stiffer the arrow must be.

As the string moves forward it is pushing the nock towards the tip. the arrow will compress slightly, flex, and/or yaw.... the compression is negligible and does not affect arrow tip/nock alignment. So arrow can either flex or yaw... too stiff arrow yaws and pushes tip off axis. perfect flex and tip stays in alignment, too much flex and the tip gain comes out of alignment so you are trying to find a node where tip is in alignment with least amount of flex because too much flex and arrow can snap in bow with bad outcome.

Adding weight to arrow can affect this especially on the tip. The flex is created by the arrow overcoming the inertia of the tip which is why adding tip weight affects tuning. I shoot many different arrows based on purpose and they all have same dynamic spine but most commercial arrows are built to be effective for hunting with a 100 grain broadhead in a compound bow. this is the 30-06 180 grain bullet equivalent

[Swanson]

500 grains is definitely not necessary. Add a pit of front end weight if you like, but 400 grains should pass through any animal in canada you point it at.

[DirtShooter]

I did just buy some 50gr inserts, I will put 6 in and keep 6 arrows how they are now and see how it goes. What do you guys suggest using for gluing inserts in?

[Coiloil37]

I’ve been using bohning insert iron for a long time and haven’t found anything better. I’ve used far worse though. Ever had an insert slip and got that mushroomed end on your arrow?
Do good prep work to the shaft and insert and use a good glue. I chuck up a bronze bore brush in my drill and clean the inside of the arrow with acetone as well as the insert. Bit of insert iron and give them plenty of time to dry. It’s also heat reversible if you ever need to remove the insert.

I also use a footing on my arrows to prevent damage on tough impacts.

[C.f.]

From what I’ve researched if you have at least an average draw length with 60lbs plus on draw weight a good rule of thumb is to shoot for around 280fps and build an arrow accordingly. If you are going with some heavy weight up front you will need to stiffen your spine. There are many calculators online for arrow speed and FOC, aswell all the arrow manufacturers now have some in-depth spine selectors.
Here is a speed calculator that has worked pretty accurately for me
https://www.omnicalculator.com/physics/arrow-speed

[Maxwell87]

hey OP how did the experiment and adjustments work out for you?

[Parker Hale]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

Ranch Fairy… I don’t put much weight into his line of thinking. I have passed through full grown bull elk diagonally with a 385gr arrow. Currently my arrow is 440gr.

Your 340 SPINE arrow with 200gr up front is likely going to be too weak, you will likely need at least a 300 spine depending on other factor like draw length and draw poundage.

Ask yourself how you hunt, set your arrow up based on that.

Spot and stalk?
Stands?
Blinds?
Tight bush?
Open country?

Based on these factors make your decision.

If you always hunt a blind or stand and never shoot over 30 yards, you can use the heaviest arrow you want, yardage mistake won’t have much effect.

I like to have a compromise between speed and weight, 440gr at 290fps meets this criteria for me.

LC

Hey LC, so what kind of hunting and what distances do you generally shoot to with your 440 gr arrows? I plan on getting into bow hunting this fall and I'm looking for all the good real world info I can get.

Thanks
PH

[FinnDawg]

Originally Posted by Parker Hale

Hey LC, so what kind of hunting and what distances do you generally shoot to with your 440 gr arrows? I plan on getting into bow hunting this fall and I'm looking for all the good real world info I can get.

Thanks
PH

You can shooting anything with a 440gr arrow. You can also shoot it as far as you’re really comfortable shooting it, I imagine you could effectively shoot out to 80+ yards (of course this is also based on skill) with an arrow that weight. That weight is fairly “in the middle” as far as arrow weights go.

[Parker Hale]

Originally Posted by FinnDawg

You can shooting anything with a 440gr arrow. You can also shoot it as far as you’re really comfortable shooting it, I imagine you could effectively shoot out to 80+ yards (of course this is also based on skill) with an arrow that weight. That weight is fairly “in the middle” as far as arrow weights go.

Thanks Finn, much appreciated.

[Knotter]

You can find 50 and 100 grain brass inserts for these. I have a 60 lb APA with the same arrows and shoot them with 100 grain inserts. Killed an elk w this setup went through some big bones and only cost me an edge on the broadhead.

[DirtShooter]

Originally Posted by Maxwell87

hey OP how did the experiment and adjustments work out for you?

Arrows grouped well, never shot a single thing last year so maybe this year?

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by Parker Hale

Hey LC, so what kind of hunting and what distances do you generally shoot to with your 440 gr arrows? I plan on getting into bow hunting this fall and I'm looking for all the good real world info I can get.

Thanks
PH

Just saw this, I usually keep my shots under 40 however my longest 1st shot was 65 yards (antelope) and my longest follow up show was 87 (elk, first shot was money but he was standing broadside coughing so he needed another one)

LC

[jlagman]

@DirtShooter, how is your arrow flight looking with your current spine?

I generally like to use Gold Tip Velocity XT, 300 spine, cut to 26", with 100 grain brass inserts for a finished weight of about 455 grains. My flight is pretty good out of my APA, at full draw weight, but I've been thinking about moving over to a Bowtech SS34 and am worried that my spine may be a touch too stiff on that bow.

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by jlagman

@DirtShooter, how is your arrow flight looking with your current spine?

I generally like to use Gold Tip Velocity XT, 300 spine, cut to 26", with 100 grain brass inserts for a finished weight of about 455 grains. My flight is pretty good out of my APA, at full draw weight, but I've been thinking about moving over to a Bowtech SS34 and am worried that my spine may be a touch too stiff on that bow.

Too stiff is always better than too weak especially if tuning for a fixed blade broadhead.

LC

[jlagman]

It's probably best to wait until I'm back up to shooting 70lbs regularly, but I've been thinking about switching arrows.

I currently shoot a Gold Tip Velocity, 300 spine, 26" carbon-to-carbon, with a 100 grain brass insert, for a total weight around 455 grains. I felt this tuned well out of my APA but my current Bowtech drops 10fps out of the gate in "performance setting", lose another 8-10fps in "comfort" and that's before dropping draw weight another 8lbs, which is roughly where I am now.

I've been hitting a lot of 8 rings or worse lately at 20 yards, which I primarily attribute to "ring rust", but I can't help but wonder if my arrows are too stiff considering how much velocity I've presumably lost from switching bows.

Jim Bows has also stopped selling Velocity shafts, so I figure now (well, almost now) is an almost perfect time to switch. I'm strongly considering the Victory RIP TKOs, maybe bumping down to a 350 spine with a 50-75 grain insert. I figure it'll also be easier to add weight with collars and/or 125 grain heads if I miss having 200+ grain point weight, than just being "stuck" with 100 grain inserts.

I've also noticed this bow clocks arrows left, so I may try to refletch with a left helical to see how much that helps downrange.

[Coiloil37]

Originally Posted by FinnDawg

You can shooting anything with a 440gr arrow. You can also shoot it as far as you’re really comfortable shooting it, I imagine you could effectively shoot out to 80+ yards (of course this is also based on skill) with an arrow that weight. That weight is fairly “in the middle” as far as arrow weights go.

Sure you can but don’t expect it to break heavy bone or give you maximum penetration. On soft hits when everything goes well it’ll work just fine. If that’s how you’ve set your rig up and if you’re happy with and understand it’s limitations it’s all good.


Until you’ve shot heavy, properly tuned arrows you’ll never understand the penetration potential of an arrow and how much they’re capable of.

Regardless of what you think, 440 grains is lightweight. The past 30 year trend with whitetail hunters and 3d guys chasing speed at the expense of penetration doesn’t change the facts.

[Blockcaver]

Been bowhunting a long time...arrowed a lot of critters including an archery super slam. I like my present set-up with a 472 gr arrow at 272 fps from a 65# compound. Hunted with arrows from 375 grain carbons to over 600 grain 22-19 aluminum over the years. Killed with all...including a grizzly a moose and multiple elk with the 375 grain arrows....none bounced off.

I haven't met any bowhunters who are successfully hunting a wide variety of mountain big game (North American) who are on the Ashby super heavy arrow kick....although there likely are some.

[reddeerhunter]

Any animal hit in the ribs broadside with a 300gr arrow and 50lb pull with a decent fixed 2-3 blade will get a pass through "most" of the time inside 40yds.


Personally after seeing too many 1 hole shots due to animal moving or deflection off a bone or the lord almighty tinkering with the universe, I have joined the heavy side. And mainly shoot 2 blade razor sharp heads.

I am not an olympic archer all my shots since hitting my 40s have been under 40 yds on all game species.

I wanna kill antelope with the same thing I kill elk with. And elk are super super tough if the shot is not perfect.

I am overkill with 32" Dl and 900 grain total arrow eight but heck, I have to shoot .150 spine arrows anyways. Slap an Alpha 292 up front and 2 holes are not a problem.

Seems like the heavy craze is almost over, but as long as I can pull 80 lbs I am staying in the heavy realm.

I dialled my Bowtech 82nd airborne down for my son and I accidentally took wrong bow case last year also had no trigger release, and that 400grain arrow zipped through Mr Bear like he had no idea what happened and died in sight. Weird finger pulling a compound. But it was 50lbs. 3blade non vented VPa and ICS Bowhunter.

All I am saying is they all kill, but heavier usually more often means 2 holes and dead closer.

Happy hunting.