Go Back   Alberta Outdoorsmen Forum > Main Category > General Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #211  
Old 10-11-2019, 11:46 PM
Jamie Jamie is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Calgary
Posts: 10,384
Default

Bossman.
I feel so sorry for your family and those around you that you may effect. You are spewing dangerous garbage and shouldn't be allowed this platform to do it.

Anyone that listens to this crap should be shown the door as well.

Do not get me wrong I am 100% up for a great discussion but you are playing with fire.

I hope our current Gov comes up with a way of making people like yourself say the hell out of the general population. Vaccinate, Don't vaccinate. Up to you. But leaving your house is up to society.
Reply With Quote
  #212  
Old 10-11-2019, 11:56 PM
raab raab is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,858
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott h View Post
Good point. They should just separate the kids. Let those who choose to not vaccinate have their own school. Taught by teachers that have the same beliefs.
Or just get the government out of schooling and healthcare... Bring in a voucher system and minimum insurance policies, switch everything to private. You give people the choice. If a school wants all kids to be vaccinated to go there, then fine. But for the government to make it mandatory is wrong. In fact if the government made it mandatory. I would not allow my kids to get another vaccine.
__________________
“If all mankind minus one, were of one opinion, and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person, than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind.” John Stuart Mill
Reply With Quote
  #213  
Old 10-12-2019, 12:00 AM
raab raab is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,858
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamie View Post
Bossman.
I feel so sorry for your family and those around you that you may effect. You are spewing dangerous garbage and shouldn't be allowed this platform to do it.

Anyone that listens to this crap should be shown the door as well.

Do not get me wrong I am 100% up for a great discussion but you are playing with fire.

I hope our current Gov comes up with a way of making people like yourself say the hell out of the general population. Vaccinate, Don't vaccinate. Up to you. But leaving your house is up to society.
What your saying is that you think the government should have the right to inject you with anything it wants. That’s what a vaccine law boils down to.
__________________
“If all mankind minus one, were of one opinion, and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person, than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind.” John Stuart Mill
Reply With Quote
  #214  
Old 10-12-2019, 12:03 AM
bossmansteve bossmansteve is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Posts: 78
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamie View Post
Bossman.
I feel so sorry for your family and those around you that you may effect. You are spewing dangerous garbage and shouldn't be allowed this platform to do it.

Anyone that listens to this crap should be shown the door as well.

Do not get me wrong I am 100% up for a great discussion but you are playing with fire.

I hope our current Gov comes up with a way of making people like yourself say the hell out of the general population. Vaccinate, Don't vaccinate. Up to you. But leaving your house is up to society.
How do you know I'm spewing dangerous garbage? Because it disagrees with the government's official recommendation, what your grade 6 teacher told you, or what is most popularly believed in society? Hardly the barometer of truth. Einstein was correct when he said that "Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth". Unfortunately, unthinking respect for authority is the rule nowadays.

From the paper I linked in my last post:

Quote:
We previously showed that poorly biodegradable aluminum-coated particles injected into muscle are promptly phagocytosed in muscle and the draining lymph nodes, and can disseminate within phagocytic cells throughout the body and slowly accumulate in brain.
Quote:
Concerns about the use of aluminum adjuvants have emerged following (i) recognition of their role at the origin of the so-called macrophagic myofasciitis (MMF) lesion in 2001 (3, 4), which revealed fundamental misconception of their adjuvant effect and pointed out their unexpectedly long-lasting biopersistence (4); and (ii) demonstration of their apparent capacity to migrate in lymphoid organs and then disseminate throughout the body within monocyte-lineage cells and progressively accumulate in the brain (5).
Quote:
In spite of their long usage, the literature has pointed out that the adjuvanticity mechanisms of aluminum salts remain basically unknown despite most active investigation in the field in recent years (21, 22).
Quote:
Aluminum has long been identified as a neurotoxic metal, affecting memory, cognition and psychomotor control, altering neurotransmission and synaptic activity, damaging the blood–brain barrier (BBB), exerting pro-oxidant effects, activating microglia and neuroinflammation, depressing the cerebral glucose metabolism and mitochondrial functions, interfering with transcriptional activity, and promoting beta-amyloid and neurofilament aggregation (56).
Quote:
Concerns about long-term biopersistence of alum largely depend on the ability of alum particles to reach and exert toxicity in remote organs. This ability has been suggested by several studies (64–67). The reference study on aluminum hydroxide biodisposition used isotopic 26Al-enriched alum injected in the rabbit muscle: 26Al was weakly eliminated in the urine (6% on day 28) and was detected in lymph nodes, spleen, liver, and brain (13).
Reply With Quote
  #215  
Old 10-12-2019, 12:14 AM
raab raab is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,858
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by NewGuard84 View Post
Thankfully we live in an era of established scientific knowledge, where some things are now proven facts as opposed to opinions.

Perhaps it is also still up for debate whether the sun orbits the Earth?

This is the question I ask people who want to challenge established science.
I think science can answer some things, and miss on others. I mean look at CPR, it’s been changed how many times in the last 25 years? Or the appendix, or tonsils. Both thought useless, now we’re finding out not so much. I think with science you have to approach it with a skeptics attitude, until it’s proven 100% and can’t change.

Also I think this fellow bringing up concerns around autism is off. If your child gets autism from a vaccine, it will most likely be from a severe reaction. In saying that I think everyone should examine the risks involved. The nurse should be able to tell how many people experience a severe reaction to the vaccine. The number will undoubtedly be very low, but the chances of someone dying from measles, mumps, rubella is also extremely low for example. Everyone should weigh the positives and negatives for the vaccines before making a decision IMO.
__________________
“If all mankind minus one, were of one opinion, and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person, than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind.” John Stuart Mill
Reply With Quote
  #216  
Old 10-12-2019, 12:23 AM
raab raab is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,858
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by NewGuard84 View Post
I think we share similar views on the central issue and our discussion is on the value and implications of revisiting "established" science.

I agree that review is important and what is "established" must be a high threshold, based on duplicated studies, to know with reasonable certainty. Further review does not concern me so long as qualified people are doing the research, which is my issue.

I get suspicious when things we reasonably know (that are no longer debated among the qualified crowd) are revisited by pseudo-scientists or quacks who conveniently arrive at results that contradict the real science.

It sometimes muddies the waters in cases like this if there are "studies" to point to with differing results. That is where my Earth's orbit joke comes in: people still arrive at the conclusion the sun orbits the Earth, but how did they get there?
Science should always be re-evaluated because our technology is always improving and we’re learning more as a result. Things I accept are things that are mathematically repeatable. For example Newton’s Law of Gravity
__________________
“If all mankind minus one, were of one opinion, and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person, than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind.” John Stuart Mill

Last edited by raab; 10-12-2019 at 12:31 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #217  
Old 10-12-2019, 07:38 AM
AndrewM AndrewM is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: NW Calgary
Posts: 2,785
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by NewGuard84 View Post
I think we share similar views on the central issue and our discussion is on the value and implications of revisiting "established" science.

I agree that review is important and what is "established" must be a high threshold, based on duplicated studies, to know with reasonable certainty. Further review does not concern me so long as qualified people are doing the research, which is my issue.

I get suspicious when things we reasonably know (that are no longer debated among the qualified crowd) are revisited by pseudo-scientists or quacks who conveniently arrive at results that contradict the real science.

It sometimes muddies the waters in cases like this if there are "studies" to point to with differing results. That is where my Earth's orbit joke comes in: people still arrive at the conclusion the sun orbits the Earth, but how did they get there?
Yes I think we are on the same page. Scientists must submit their data to be peer reviewed. Problem with the garbage research is it isn’t repeatable and doesn’t come from scientists so hard to review!
One person I know has an autistic twin and a healthy twin. Said it was obvious from a young baby that one was different. PRIOR to any vaccinations!
Reply With Quote
  #218  
Old 10-12-2019, 07:44 AM
AndrewM AndrewM is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: NW Calgary
Posts: 2,785
Default

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...ylor-1.5316932
Interesting research going on. Autism was transferred to a mouse that didn’t have it via fecal matter. So was depression and anxiety.
Reply With Quote
  #219  
Old 10-12-2019, 08:08 AM
Jamie Jamie is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Calgary
Posts: 10,384
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by raab View Post
What your saying is that you think the government should have the right to inject you with anything it wants. That’s what a vaccine law boils down to.
What part of Vacinate/Dont vaccinate didn't you understand?

100% up to you. As with all choices, there are consequences.
Bossman is playing a dangerous game here. One that gambles with mine and my kids health. I won't engage with such a person. I suggest the 2 of you get your tin foil hats on and have a meeting in someone's Moms basement....
Reply With Quote
  #220  
Old 10-12-2019, 08:25 AM
raab raab is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,858
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamie View Post
What part of Vacinate/Dont vaccinate didn't you understand?

100% up to you. As with all choices, there are consequences.
Bossman is playing a dangerous game here. One that gambles with mine and my kids health. I won't engage with such a person. I suggest the 2 of you get your tin foil hats on and have a meeting in someone's Moms basement....
If you know anything about history, you wouldn’t trust the government. That’s not tin foil, it’s reality when you have tests done like what was done over Winnipeg and Medicine Hat. https://www.google.ca/amp/s/national...-discovers/amp

In saying that what your saying is if you don’t live by what I think is right. You should be effectively jailed. Just because you want to give the government the power to inject you with anything it sees fit, doesn’t mean I will. I hope you seriously reconsider your views on a vaccine law, and where it leads.
__________________
“If all mankind minus one, were of one opinion, and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person, than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind.” John Stuart Mill
Reply With Quote
  #221  
Old 10-12-2019, 08:32 AM
AndrewM AndrewM is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: NW Calgary
Posts: 2,785
Default

No issues with people who don’t want to be vaccinated. Just stay away from the general population. Sit in your bunker and prepare for the government to attack.
Reply With Quote
  #222  
Old 10-12-2019, 09:24 AM
raab raab is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,858
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AndrewM View Post
No issues with people who don’t want to be vaccinated. Just stay away from the general population. Sit in your bunker and prepare for the government to attack.
Again I think you need to look at the risk. I don’t see any reason someone should be ostracized by the general public because they weren’t vaccinated. I see a perfectly good reason to make it a job requirement of NICU nurses to have their vaccines.
__________________
“If all mankind minus one, were of one opinion, and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person, than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind.” John Stuart Mill
Reply With Quote
  #223  
Old 10-12-2019, 09:41 AM
Glion Glion is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 560
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamie View Post
Bossman.
I feel so sorry for your family and those around you that you may effect. You are spewing dangerous garbage and shouldn't be allowed this platform to do it.

Anyone that listens to this crap should be shown the door as well.

Do not get me wrong I am 100% up for a great discussion but you are playing with fire.

I hope our current Gov comes up with a way of making people like yourself say the hell out of the general population. Vaccinate, Don't vaccinate. Up to you. But leaving your house is up to society.
Leaving your house is up to society? Don't get me wrong I am provacine but forcing people to get a shot I dont agree with.
Reply With Quote
  #224  
Old 10-12-2019, 11:05 AM
AndrewM AndrewM is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: NW Calgary
Posts: 2,785
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by raab View Post
Again I think you need to look at the risk. I don’t see any reason someone should be ostracized by the general public because they weren’t vaccinated. I see a perfectly good reason to make it a job requirement of NICU nurses to have their vaccines.
Are you willing to look the family in the face when you cause their babies death?
Reply With Quote
  #225  
Old 10-12-2019, 12:01 PM
pikergolf's Avatar
pikergolf pikergolf is online now
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 11,286
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AndrewM View Post
Are you willing to look the family in the face when you cause their babies death?

Drama much?
__________________
“One of the sad signs of our times is that we have demonized those who produce, subsidized those who refuse to produce, and canonized those who complain.”

Thomas Sowell
Reply With Quote
  #226  
Old 10-12-2019, 12:11 PM
AndrewM AndrewM is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: NW Calgary
Posts: 2,785
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pikergolf View Post
Drama much?
Are you? Easy to be a keyboard warrior until it is someone you know who loses a child.
Reply With Quote
  #227  
Old 10-12-2019, 12:29 PM
Glion Glion is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 560
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AndrewM View Post
Are you willing to look the family in the face when you cause their babies death?
Same could be said about a flu shot.
Reply With Quote
  #228  
Old 10-12-2019, 12:47 PM
AndrewM AndrewM is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: NW Calgary
Posts: 2,785
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Glion View Post
Same could be said about a flu shot.
Absolutely if the flu shot was effective and you didn’t have to take yearly.
Reply With Quote
  #229  
Old 10-12-2019, 01:20 PM
bossmansteve bossmansteve is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Posts: 78
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AndrewM View Post
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...ylor-1.5316932
Interesting research going on. Autism was transferred to a mouse that didn’t have it via fecal matter. So was depression and anxiety.
Can you link to the actual study in a peer-reviewed journal? News articles can easily be incorrect and I hate when they don't link to their sources.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AndrewM View Post
Are you willing to look the family in the face when you cause their babies death?
So the second last person in the chain of infectious disease spread is responsible for causing the death? Dumbest thing I've heard here yet.
Reply With Quote
  #230  
Old 10-12-2019, 01:28 PM
Scott h Scott h is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: At the lake
Posts: 2,502
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by raab View Post
Or just get the government out of schooling and healthcare... Bring in a voucher system and minimum insurance policies, switch everything to private. You give people the choice. If a school wants all kids to be vaccinated to go there, then fine. But for the government to make it mandatory is wrong. In fact if the government made it mandatory. I would not allow my kids to get another vaccine.
Kinda sad parenting that you'd be willing to risk your childs life rather than be "told what to do by the government".Percentage wise, the vast majority are quite happy with the way the system works. There really is a very small percentage of the population that are against vaccinations so it would be best just to cut those few from the heard. It only takes a few air heads to set back decades of work eradicating diseases.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/19/w...outbreak-.html
Reply With Quote
  #231  
Old 10-12-2019, 01:34 PM
AndrewM AndrewM is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: NW Calgary
Posts: 2,785
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bossmansteve View Post
Can you link to the actual study in a peer-reviewed journal? News articles can easily be incorrect and I hate when they don't link to their sources.


So the second last person in the chain of infectious disease spread is responsible for causing the death? Dumbest thing I've heard here yet.
No killing non perfect children was the stupidest thing on here. Spreading diseases do to junk science is close behind.

If you actually looked at the article they are studying it. They were speaking with one of the scientists studying it. I heard her on the radio explaining what they are studying. Nothing to peer review yet. For a google expert figured you would have figured that out.
Reply With Quote
  #232  
Old 10-12-2019, 01:35 PM
Scott h Scott h is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: At the lake
Posts: 2,502
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pikergolf View Post
Drama much?
Not really. Recently polio has reared it's head in the Philippines after a couple of decades of being free of the disease.

Last edited by Scott h; 10-12-2019 at 01:43 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #233  
Old 10-12-2019, 02:23 PM
bossmansteve bossmansteve is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Posts: 78
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott h View Post
Kinda sad parenting that you'd be willing to risk your childs life rather than be "told what to do by the government".Percentage wise, the vast majority are quite happy with the way the system works. There really is a very small percentage of the population that are against vaccinations so it would be best just to cut those few from the heard. It only takes a few air heads to set back decades of work eradicating diseases.
And there we have it! For the good of the herd, it's time to start killing small minorities. First anti-vaxxers, then gun owners, and on and on. This is exactly how socialism works.
Reply With Quote
  #234  
Old 10-12-2019, 02:25 PM
bossmansteve bossmansteve is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Posts: 78
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AndrewM View Post
If you actually looked at the article they are studying it. They were speaking with one of the scientists studying it. I heard her on the radio explaining what they are studying. Nothing to peer review yet. For a google expert figured you would have figured that out.
It's funny that you're here peddling news articles while calling the peer reviewed research I've posted "junk".
Reply With Quote
  #235  
Old 10-12-2019, 02:36 PM
raab raab is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,858
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AndrewM View Post
Are you willing to look the family in the face when you cause their babies death?
Do you even know the risk of a child dying from Measles in Canada is? Once every 100 or so years. So id take my chances on that. Also it’s not the anti vaxxers who are the issue. It’s people who travel to areas where measles is still prevalent. I vote we ban all travelling, and if you want to go somewhere then your not allowed to return to Canada prior to a 90 day quarantine. Then we won’t have to worry about anyone ever getting sick

Your post is utter nonsense and shows how little you know on the issue.
__________________
“If all mankind minus one, were of one opinion, and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person, than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind.” John Stuart Mill
Reply With Quote
  #236  
Old 10-12-2019, 02:43 PM
raab raab is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,858
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pikergolf View Post
Drama much?
Yea, no kidding. As I said it’s about weighing the options. If I lived in rural Alberta with healthy kids, and didn’t travel much. I’d probably opt out of the MMR vaccine. Just don’t see any reason to need it. If you’re in healthcare or around the immunocompromised, then yes get them all. Just use your brain, and figure out what makes sense for you and your family.
__________________
“If all mankind minus one, were of one opinion, and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person, than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind.” John Stuart Mill
Reply With Quote
  #237  
Old 10-12-2019, 02:44 PM
raab raab is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,858
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Glion View Post
Same could be said about a flu shot.
The flu shot is a vaccine. If a vaccine law came in every person would need it every year.
__________________
“If all mankind minus one, were of one opinion, and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person, than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind.” John Stuart Mill
Reply With Quote
  #238  
Old 10-12-2019, 02:58 PM
raab raab is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,858
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott h View Post
Kinda sad parenting that you'd be willing to risk your childs life rather than be "told what to do by the government".Percentage wise, the vast majority are quite happy with the way the system works. There really is a very small percentage of the population that are against vaccinations so it would be best just to cut those few from the heard. It only takes a few air heads to set back decades of work eradicating diseases.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/19/w...outbreak-.html
Wrong! In fact, I would say I’d be protecting my child’s lives if the government forced mandatory vaccinations. As it stands I can freely choose to vaccinate my children and have. But if it changes to mandatory vaccinations I have a few issues with it.

The first is it would go against my religious beliefs. As in the end times people receive a mark and can not buy or sell without it. Most people believe it will be a microchip, but it could fall under a vaccine as well.

Second the moment it comes into force, it will make law abiding citizens criminals. I don’t see the need being that great, that we need to make good people criminals.

Third it will give the government the ability to take away children from parents. Which could escalate into a civil war, between those who side with the parents and those that don’t. When you start taking away peoples kids on a grand scale, guns come out and it won’t be pretty.

Fourth your giving the government the ability to pump you full of anything they want, as long as it’s called a vaccine. So with those things in mind I really don’t think it’s a can of worms we should open up.
__________________
“If all mankind minus one, were of one opinion, and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person, than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind.” John Stuart Mill
Reply With Quote
  #239  
Old 10-12-2019, 03:19 PM
GENINC GENINC is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 199
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by raab View Post
Wrong! In fact, I would say I’d be protecting my child’s lives if the government forced mandatory vaccinations. As it stands I can freely choose to vaccinate my children and have. But if it changes to mandatory vaccinations I have a few issues with it.

The first is it would go against my religious beliefs. As in the end times people receive a mark and can not buy or sell without it. Most people believe it will be a microchip, but it could fall under a vaccine as well.

Second the moment it comes into force, it will make law abiding citizens criminals. I don’t see the need being that great, that we need to make good people criminals.

Third it will give the government the ability to take away children from parents. Which could escalate into a civil war, between those who side with the parents and those that don’t. When you start taking away peoples kids on a grand scale, guns come out and it won’t be pretty.

Fourth your giving the government the ability to pump you full of anything they want, as long as it’s called a vaccine. So with those things in mind I really don’t think it’s a can of worms we should open up.
You got anymore space in your bunker for the civil war? Jesus you guys are bat**** crazy
Reply With Quote
  #240  
Old 10-12-2019, 03:34 PM
Trochu's Avatar
Trochu Trochu is online now
Moderator
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 7,595
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by raab View Post
Fourth your giving the government the ability to pump you full of anything they want, as long as it’s called a vaccine. So with those things in mind I really don’t think it’s a can of worms we should open up.
I'm all for less government interference. And like gun bans, this isn't really about public safety. Banning alcohol, smoking, and fast food would in all likelihood save far, far more people than mandatory vaccines ever would in Canada, but I doubt few on here would support that, even the pro government interference group.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:59 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.