Walleye Harness

[RigPig]

Came across this great write up on walleye central for tying your own harnesses. I thought some might like.
http://lineonfishing.com/index.php/2...pinner-harness

[EZM]

Good Link.

I use fluorocarbon leader line to prevent the pike from destroying my spinner rig and almost always tie a crawler harness (two hooks) so that one may act as a stinger when the walleye are short striking (even if I use a minnow on the lead hook).

[Jamie Black R/T]

Originally Posted by EZM

Good Link.

I use fluorocarbon leader line to prevent the pike from destroying my spinner rig and almost always tie a crawler harness (two hooks) so that one may act as a stinger when the walleye are short striking (even if I use a minnow on the lead hook).

Agree...on all accounts

Never tie single hook rigs anymore.

Find the thicker leader material works better with rolling hooks and keeping line twist down.

[Stryker2]

I started making my own rigs last summer after so many were getting taken by the jacks. Being retired on a fixed income I couldn't afford to be buying $4.+ rigs like hot cakes! I love making the rigs and I put some research into it as to combinations of colors etc... I use a good quality 10 lbs Fluro line for the rigs with the desired length leader. Never had another one broken by a jack since.

[Fishslayer99]

I found the pike to be a real pain as well, even flouro will fail eventually. Last year I started using wire leader material, you can also buy small metal tubes, that you crimp down onto the wire for the loop at the front and the hook at the back. I have not lost one to those pike since. I actually caught a 12lb pike on one last year.

[Habfan]

I have found that using flouro later in the year picks up more bottom growth or frog grass due to the fact that flouro line sinks and instead of adding a floater or going faster I go back to mono or use floating artificial baits !

[bobalong]

Originally Posted by Habfan

I have found that using flouro later in the year picks up more bottom growth or frog grass due to the fact that flouro line sinks and instead of adding a floater or going faster I go back to mono or use floating artificial baits !

I don't normally target pike with spinners but if there are lots around the area I am fishing for walleye, I have some titanium spinner rigs, pike don't break these off, and they work just as well as mono for walleye.

[EZM]

Originally Posted by Fishslayer99

I found the pike to be a real pain as well, even flouro will fail eventually. Last year I started using wire leader material, you can also buy small metal tubes, that you crimp down onto the wire for the loop at the front and the hook at the back. I have not lost one to those pike since. I actually caught a 12lb pike on one last year.

Fluorocarbon fishing line will fail. Fluorocarbon leaders will not.

You bought the wrong stuff. Many people make this mistake.

Both are made from Fluorocarbon resins BUT these are two completely different products with very different material and performance properties.

300 yds of 20lb fluorocarbon line = $15

50 yds of 20lb fluorocarbon leader = $30

This works out to be 12 times the cost ...... why ..... because they are not the same product at all. I have caught hundreds of Pike using the same fluorocarbon leader. It has never failed and it just starting to get a few small knicks in it. By this time I would have used a few dozen wire leaders (which would have kinked long ago).

Fluorocarbon LEADER material. That's the ticket .... here it is ....

http://www.berkley-fishing.com/Fluor...efault,sc.html

[huntsfurfish]

Pike will/can still bite through the lighter weights of fluorocarbon leader. If they didnt, I would use 20 - 30 lb for pike rigs. I dont use less than 40 for pike. But it will help at any weight(its much better than mono of same weight).
The higher the weight you go in fluoro leader the better it is at being bite proof.

Titanium and steel leaders are bite proof.

[Hunter Trav]

Originally Posted by EZM

Fluorocarbon fishing line will fail. Fluorocarbon leaders will not.

You bought the wrong stuff. Many people make this mistake.

Both are made from Fluorocarbon resins BUT these are two completely different products with very different material and performance properties.

300 yds of 20lb fluorocarbon line = $15

50 yds of 20lb fluorocarbon leader = $30

This works out to be 12 times the cost ...... why ..... because they are not the same product at all. I have caught hundreds of Pike using the same fluorocarbon leader. It has never failed and it just starting to get a few small knicks in it. By this time I would have used a few dozen wire leaders (which would have kinked long ago).

Fluorocarbon LEADER material. That's the ticket .... here it is ....

http://www.berkley-fishing.com/Fluor...efault,sc.html

Which leader material are you using EZM, the Vanish or the pro spec?? I made some rigs from the 25lbs pro spec and was getting bit off/broke off at one lake so bad I had no choice but to switch to wire rigs...

[dodger]

Originally Posted by bobalong

I don't normally target pike with spinners but if there are lots around the area I am fishing for walleye, I have some titanium spinner rigs, pike don't break these off, and they work just as well as mono for walleye.

Nice setup Bob ! Thanks for sharing.

Dodger.

[EZM]

Originally Posted by Hunter Trav

Which leader material are you using EZM, the Vanish or the pro spec?? I made some rigs from the 25lbs pro spec and was getting bit off/broke off at one lake so bad I had no choice but to switch to wire rigs...

I use Vanish for the 20lbs, 40lbs leaders.

I have tried a few different 80lb brands - Seaguar are the ones which seem the toughest ...... but can't find it in smaller tests.

I tie my spinner harnesses with 20lb Vanish ..... never had a problem ..... but with the smaller line weights, you have to check for knicks every once in a while.

The 40lb is for lakers / gerhards when trolling (the stiffer, and more uniformed, ultra clear) leader material is what I use.

The 80lb is for my crank baits targeting Pike.

I have never had a break off with leader material. I'm sure if you keep using a lighter 20lb and try and wrestle pike after pike and don't replace it when it knicks too deeply, it might break ..... but never had this issue really.

[EZM]

Originally Posted by Habfan

I have found that using flouro later in the year picks up more bottom growth or frog grass due to the fact that flouro line sinks and instead of adding a floater or going faster I go back to mono or use floating artificial baits !

I don't think that fluorocarbon versus mono makes a BIG difference in how much it floats or sinks on your spinner rigs given the simple physics of buoyancy versus the weight of the hooks, beads, blades, etc...

There simply isn't enough mono there to overcome the weight of the spinner rig ...... try throwing one overboard if you don't believe me .....

I doubt this is a significant issue unless you are using a fly or something really, really light OR that has neutrally buoyant properties. A wet fly will have trouble sinking mono (or more slowly) compared to fluoro but thats on a fly that weighs 1 gram or something.

I think for rigs that weigh that much more ..... it's not enough to even notice in my opinion.

[EZM]

Originally Posted by huntsfurfish

Pike will/can still bite through the lighter weights of fluorocarbon leader. If they didnt, I would use 20 - 30 lb for pike rigs. I dont use less than 40 for pike. But it will help at any weight(its much better than mono of same weight).
The higher the weight you go in fluoro leader the better it is at being bite proof.

Titanium and steel leaders are bite proof.

I don't disagree, in general (see post above) but 80lb fluoro is also bite proof (assuming we are both talking pike here not sharks).

I prefer fluoro leaders over titanium for a few reasons ....

1) Invisible - a key feature when still fishing spooky fish
2) I can grab them when a pike is thrashing without getting cut
3) the pike doesn't get cut up (as much)
4) I can tie them quickly ( I guess you could do that with titanium maybe)
5) they are for more supple (give crankbaits a better action)
6) cost a little less
7) Does not kink (although titanium is very hard to kink)
8) I like to argue with you ....

Titanium, however is my second choice ...... way, way better than regular steel leaders which simply don't compare (not even close) to either of these premium leader materials.

[Habfan]

Originally Posted by EZM

I don't think that fluorocarbon versus mono makes a BIG difference in how much it floats or sinks on your spinner rigs given the simple physics of buoyancy versus the weight of the hooks, beads, blades, etc...

There simply isn't enough mono there to overcome the weight of the spinner rig ...... try throwing one overboard if you don't believe me .....

I doubt this is a significant issue unless you are using a fly or something really, really light OR that has neutrally buoyant properties. A wet fly will have trouble sinking mono (or more slowly) compared to fluoro but thats on a fly that weighs 1 gram or something.

I think for rigs that weigh that much more ..... it's not enough to even notice in my opinion.

throwing one over board is a dumb comment. It can be the difference between an inch off the bottom and dragging bottom. Which is a BIG difference !! IMO

[huntsfurfish]

Originally Posted by EZM

I don't disagree, in general (see post above) but 80lb fluoro is also bite proof (assuming we are both talking pike here not sharks).

I prefer fluoro leaders over titanium for a few reasons ....

1) Invisible - a key feature when still fishing spooky fish
2) I can grab them when a pike is thrashing without getting cut
3) the pike doesn't get cut up (as much)
4) I can tie them quickly ( I guess you could do that with titanium maybe)
5) they are for more supple (give crankbaits a better action)
6) cost a little less
7) Does not kink (although titanium is very hard to kink)
8) I like to argue with you ....

Titanium, however is my second choice ...... way, way better than regular steel leaders which simply don't compare (not even close) to either of these premium leader materials.

Aw heck, I like to argue with you too!

80 pound fluoro is not bite proof even with pike. They occasionally can bite through even that weight, though not as common as lighter weights.

Like I said though, the higher the weight flouro the more "bite proof" it becomes.

I also use it for pretty much the same reasons as you. But do use titanium frequently still.

[Habfan]

Originally Posted by bobalong

I don't normally target pike with spinners but if there are lots around the area I am fishing for walleye, I have some titanium spinner rigs, pike don't break these off, and they work just as well as mono for walleye.

That is a nice rig but wondering if you are tying or crimping ? The crimping I have done with heavy flouro seem to come undone sometimes ! Is the crimper I'm using of poor quality maybe ? I'm not worried about losing rigs but if you think titanium works as well as mono , I'm willing to give it a shot, I just thought the eyes would shy away from it so never even gave it a try ! And yes Hunts I have had pike bite through flouro leader material like it was mono. And that was 40 lb.

[EZM]

Originally Posted by Habfan

throwing one over board is a dumb comment. It can be the difference between an inch off the bottom and dragging bottom. Which is a BIG difference !! IMO

There would be no discernible difference based on the amount positive buoyancy produced by the mono, which has a mass of about about 2% the weight of the negatively buoyant spinner applying it's mass (which wants to sink like a stone).

You are not getting an inch.

Mono's buoyancy cannot physically overcome a 50:1 deficit in weight to cause the rig to rise.

[fish99]

I have been tying my rigs with 10lb fire line for years loose very few to pike,, when getting frayed just retie. cost effective way to go.

[Habfan]

Originally Posted by EZM

There would be no discernible difference based on the amount positive buoyancy produced by the mono, which has a mass of about about 2% the weight of the negatively buoyant spinner applying it's mass (which wants to sink like a stone).

You are not getting an inch.

Mono's buoyancy cannot physically overcome a 50:1 deficit in weight to cause the rig to rise.

What if my rig is 10 feet long O smart one ? Would it not create a bow in my line ? Why do you create such conflicts with everyone ? If you are so smart in every aspect of life, in which it seems to me, you think you are, why don't you do something useful with your intelligence like cure cancer or something ? I'm just stating what I do in some situations, which work for me and maybe will work for others. If you don't want to try it don't, but don't try to be an expert on every forum on everything !!!

[EZM]

Originally Posted by Habfan

What if my rig is 10 feet long O smart one ? Would it not create a bow in my line ? Why do you create such conflicts with everyone ? If you are so smart in every aspect of life, in which it seems to me, you think you are, why don't you do something useful with your intelligence like cure cancer or something ? I'm just stating what I do in some situations, which work for me and maybe will work for others. If you don't want to try it don't, but don't try to be an expert on every forum on everything !!!

You are correct, a bow in your line would make the difference. That would be likely to change the laws of physics. I forgot about the magic bow in the line rule.

I apologize.

[Habfan]

Originally Posted by EZM

You are correct, a bow in your line would make the difference. That would be likely to change the laws of physics. I forgot about the magic bow in the line rule.

I apologize.

Your a funny guy ! Apology accepted, tight lines man !!

[bobalong]

Originally Posted by Habfan

That is a nice rig but wondering if you are tying or crimping ? The crimping I have done with heavy flouro seem to come undone sometimes ! Is the crimper I'm using of poor quality maybe ? I'm not worried about losing rigs but if you think titanium works as well as mono , I'm willing to give it a shot, I just thought the eyes would shy away from it so never even gave it a try ! And yes Hunts I have had pike bite through flouro leader material like it was mono. And that was 40 lb.

I do not crimp, there are "stoppers" on the rig for the hook spacing. This particular rig I bought, and then added my own beads/spinner/ etc. I have never broke a titanium rig so usually only carry a few with different colored beads. Blades are a quick change clevis.

They may shy away if you are were trying to lindy rig with one, where the walleye have a chance to look at as you going very slow. I pull blades at a bit over 1mph, so I don't believe they get a lot of chance to look at it, more of a reaction bite. Personally never really noticed a difference. The ones I have tied the diameter of the titanium is very small and supple enough to tie regular knots with.

[Freedom55]

Every winter I put together 12 dozen crawler haulers and 12 dozen lindy rigs. The Lindys are easy; 6'-9' monofilament with a #10 barbless octopus hook at one end and a quality barrel swivel at the other. Total cost $35.00 or about $0.25 a piece.

The worm harness rigs are a little more complicated in that there is more terminal tackle. 5 x 4mm beads, 2 x 3mm beads, an in-line foam float, a blade and two barbless octopus hooks; one size 4 and one size 6, snelled onto 14 lbs. fluorocarbon (Vanish). In my experience the difference (for the purposes of this argument) between leader material and regular fluoro. main line is the price.

If I use a Northlands blade the rig costs about $1.85 each. If I use www.luremaking.com blades and floats I can save about $0.50 per unit.

Cheap tackle, and no reason to try to make one last all weekend. Save the blade and float if you can and discard the rest after one hook-up. I've tried the plastic clevis but 7/10 times the blade goes its separate way so I stopped. I keep them on 12" lengths of children's pool noodles stored in Rubbermaid totes.

Also, with a two hook rig, the trailer hook should not be pinned to the worm to allow the bait to swim in a more natural fashion. If you use two baits, leeches or minnows, you will notice that most hook-ups are on the front hook.

[bobalong]

Originally Posted by Freedom55

Also, with a two hook rig, the trailer hook should not be pinned to the worm to allow the bait to swim in a more natural fashion. If you use two baits, leeches or minnows, you will notice that most hook-ups are on the front hook.

When pulling spinner rigs, I don't really think pinning the back hook matters one way or the other, as there is nothing to natural about pulling a worm on a harness, in fact I have never even seen a nighcrawler in the water.

I do pump the rod when pulling bouncers, but not constantly, so even with leeches and minnows, the action is not to natural, but what I do know is, spinner rigs work really well, almost any way you fish them. The only exception might be if you are pulling smiley blades or spin-n-glows, as they can be worked (will spin) at about the same speed as lindy rigging.

[diesel_power]

Great link . I like making my own so this is some good info.

[timbo]

put the line through twice on the bead before the hook if pike bite the hooks off you can save the rest of the rig

[EZM]

Originally Posted by timbo

put the line through twice on the bead before the hook if pike bite the hooks off you can save the rest of the rig

That's a good tip ...... just like using a bead as a stop I guess ..... I've never done that on the lower beads before (just the stop beads up the line). Good idea.