Who Wants a Muzzleloading Season?

[ganderblaster]

This thread is not started to attempt to take away already available oppurtunities but the thought is why not a muzzleloading season for deer during the second rut cycle with no additional tags just a longer opportunity. Any support or improvements on this thought?

[ishootbambi]

yeah, im down with that. i can see already that guys who dont hunt with a front stuffer will be complaining about discrimination though. i like your idea of it being late too as it would provide more opportunity, but im not sure all zones could use more pressure. as long as it doesnt hurt the resource i say giddy-up.

[ganderblaster]

The theory is a muzzleloading season would be less stressful for the deer since pushing bush would not be as ethical an option with a front stuffer.Since there would be no new tags given out I can't see there being more kills as if you can't shoot a deer with a 3 month season you probably won't with another week or two extension either there could actually be less hunter success as the rifle hunters would hold out on smaller deer knowing they would have more chances later on during the muzzleloading season

[Okotokian]

Not sure your arguments hold water. Every one could also concievably be true for centerfires. I see no reason why choosing to use a different weapon should get you a different, special, or extended season or area to hunt. About the only concession I'd make would be to bows and crossbows in highly populated areas, which they already have.

[Dick284]

Once more Hector!

http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showt...=muzzle+loader

http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showt...=muzzle+loader

http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showt...=muzzle+loader

[RobinHood]

What is the effective range on today's new age muzzle loaders? I know nothing about them but I hear 300 yards is no problem now, is this true?

Originally Posted by RobinHood

What is the effective range on today's new age muzzle loaders? I know nothing about them but I hear 300 yards is no problem now, is this true?

I wouldn't say no problem but it can be done by shooters willing to invest the time and money. I'd say 200 yards would be more reasonable.

[Okotokian]

Been thinking about using the old Lee-En .303 scopeless next year, just for a challenge (after I'm successful with my regular scoped rifle of course!) For those that have used both, which would you trust more for a shot of perhaps200 yards at a deer or elk? A scoped modern inline muzzleloader, or an unscoped centerfire of your favourite caliber? I've never shot the former but I'd be pretty hesitant to take a shot of much of a distance with the latter. Maybe we need an unscoped rifle season?

[Jack&7]

I too have read all the other "bow vs. rifle vs. M/L" threads and they always degrade into a pizzing match over which way is better or "why should you get a special season"....blah, blah, blah. On and on it goes.

For me, it has nothing to do with whether your way is better or any of that nonsense.

It's as simple as this: I support another opportunity to get out and do what I love...hunt! I would love to have another 2 weeks after Nov. 30th to continue hunting. As long as the herds could handle the pressure (and that might not be the case in all areas), why not issue another tag?


That way, I could conceivably hunt in the fall with archery, November for rifle, and december for muzzle. Look at it this way: it could be an extra incentive for some of us to get out and learn an entirely new and different skill set which you may find extremely fun (happened to me!).

What would be wrong with that? If it provides opportunity for the sport to grow and more chances for ALL of us to get out and enjoy the outdoors, how could you as a hunter not support that?

The only reason, IMHO, that this hasn't happened yet is because any productive discussion gets bogged down in useless whining and then the respective groups divide, defending their chosen method. Instead of all of us getting together to affect a positve change, there are hunters that would rather bash other hunters for their preferred weapon. So nothing happens...

If somebody can give me a logical, well thought-out reason why there shouldn't be another season...feel free to enlighten me. I will listen.

And FYI...I rifle hunt and love shootig the M/L as well. I haven't gotten into archery...yet.

[Okotokian]

Originally Posted by Jack&7

I too have read all the other "bow vs. rifle vs. M/L" threads and they always degrade into a pizzing match over which way is better or "why should you get a special season"....blah, blah, blah. On and on it goes.

For me, it has nothing to do with whether your way is better or any of that nonsense.

It's as simple as this: I support another opportunity to get out and do what I love...hunt! .

So why not just support one single extended hunting season for all?

Seems that the arguments always start with the proposal for a specialized, exclusive season, then when we say we don't support it we get the argument that we are pitting one hunter against another and not being supportive. So don't support an extension for a few, support and extension for all, regardless of chosen weapon.

[Vindalbakken]

I'm all for a year round knife season. No new tags needed. Use what you got for tags. Spear users should be restricted from May through July. Muzzleloaders get one week after the end of rifle extra, crossbows one week before the regular rifle season. Cannon users can only hunt during the first week of regular rifle season. Bare longbows with cedar arrows can have a week headstart on the regular bow season. Slingshots and catapults are forbidden. Blow guns with poison tips will not be legal in Canada, unless you are from central Africa and can prove traditional use in which case you could use in any open season.

[Okotokian]

Originally Posted by Vindalbakken

I'm all for a year round knife season. No new tags needed. Use what you got for tags. Spear users should be restricted from May through July. Muzzleloaders get one week after the end of rifle extra, crossbows one week before the regular rifle season. Cannon users can only hunt during the first week of regular rifle season. Bare longbows with cedar arrows can have a week headstart on the regular bow season. Slingshots and catapults are forbidden. Blow guns with poison tips will not be legal in Canada, unless you are from central Africa and can prove traditional use in which case you could use in any open season.

Getting there.... but your system is too simple. You forgot about specialized WMU's.

I'm proposing the abolishment of seasons. We would only have tags, period. If you have a white tail tag you can kill one deer anytime of year, anyway you want.

Originally Posted by Okotokian

Getting there.... but your system is too simple. You forgot about specialized WMU's.

I'm proposing the abolishment of seasons. We would only have tags, period. If you have a white tail tag you can kill one deer anytime of year, anyway you want.

LOL....there is a bit more precedent for additional muzzleloader seasons in North America than knife or sling shot seasons. I'd support it if it didn't infringe on other seasons and game populations could withstand it. I always look at additional hunting opportunities as a good thing for hunters.

[ramshorn]

the way i see it no one would be excluded. just like rifle season if you want to use a rifle you must acquire one, in bow season no one is excluded if you want to bow hunt just get one and start hunting. the same for muzzle loader if you want to hunt in a muzzle loader season get a muzzle loader. the only people who are excluded are those that exclude themselves. obviously practice with each weapon prior to hunting with it would be required. if you choose not hunt with said weapon that is your problem not the people who do use that weapon and learn a new skill. i am all for any new season and hunting opportunity as i use all three weapons and also use open sight rifles. i love any new challenge that involves hunting.

[Okotokian]

Originally Posted by ramshorn

the way i see it no one would be excluded. just like rifle season if you want to use a rifle you must acquire one, in bow season no one is excluded if you want to bow hunt just get one and start hunting. the same for muzzle loader if you want to hunt in a muzzle loader season get a muzzle loader. the only people who are excluded are those that exclude themselves. obviously practice with each weapon prior to hunting with it would be required. if you choose not hunt with said weapon that is your problem not the people who do use that weapon and learn a new skill. i am all for any new season and hunting opportunity as i use all three weapons and also use open sight rifles. i love any new challenge that involves hunting.

But why the exclusive seasons? Why could a person not use a centerfire when you propose to have a muzzleloader season? Why does a muzzleloader hunter need to hunt without centerfire hunters in the field? It's like proposing that only red cars be allowed to drive on Sundays. "Hey, if you want to drive on Sunday, go buy a red car. No one is stopping you."

Originally Posted by Okotokian

But why the exclusive seasons? Why could a person not use a centerfire when you propose to have a muzzleloader season? Why does a muzzleloader hunter need to hunt without centerfire hunters in the field? It's like proposing that only red cars be allowed to drive on Sundays. "Hey, if you want to drive on Sunday, go buy a red car. No one is stopping you."

I think the fact that there is precedent for the muzzleloader season kind of trumps your red car arguement. There is nothing new here. It's done in most jurisdictions in North America. I'm unaware of any laws pertaining to red cars but could be mistaken.

Why not support an additional season with precedent that takes nothing away from current users? I fail to see the downside. You've given up nothing and have the opportunity to gain if you so choose. As you can currently drive your red car on Sunday, it's a pretty poor analogy.

[ishootbambi]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

I think the fact that there is precedent for the muzzleloader season kind of trumps your red car arguement. There is nothing new here. It's done in most jurisdictions in North America. I'm unaware of any laws pertaining to red cars but could be mistaken.

Why not support an additional season with precedent that takes nothing away from current users? I fail to see the downside. You've given up nothing and have the opportunity to gain if you so choose. As you can currently drive your red car on Sunday, it's a pretty poor analogy.

excellent post. like i said in post 2, be prepared for guys complaining about discrimination. so oko, the way i read your response, i will go ahead and assume you are livid with the archery seasons? this proposed idea for muzzleloaders is to use existing tags, but archery hunters can get tags where draws prohibit them from hunting. what i mean is, most places that mule deer for example are on draw, bowhunters can buy a tag every year. this proposal takes nothing away from anyone, and creates new opportunity. so long as the resource is not negatively affected, could you clarify your reasoning on how this would be bad?

[crazyfish]

i think the idea has some merit, there are lots of jurisdictions across NA that have "late M/L " seasons, some also have an early one as well ! THis isn't a new idea, its one that has proven to have some merit in other places, why not consider it here !

[Okotokian]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

Why not support an additional season with precedent that takes nothing away from current users? I fail to see the downside. .

Why not support an additional season for everyone, regardless of weapon? That would be a win for EVERYONE. I've yet to hear anyone definitively explain why muzzleloaders need to have an exclusive season. Perhaps I'm ignorant but someone please fill me in. Explain why you just can't hunt with a muzzleloader when users of centerfires are in the field. I must be missing something here.

I'm also not convinced by the "takes nothing away from current users" argument. Just look at bowhunters. Now that they have their season they fight tooth and nail to exclude crossbows. Want to try to extend rifle season into bow season? Good luck with that one. Once you grant an exclusive season you have a group who will fight the expansion of any other group into "their" season vociferously. If everyone has the same season everyone is united in pushing for it's expansion.

[Vindalbakken]

Do most jurisdictions have the ML season after or preceeding the regular season? Do most jurisdictions have an open ML season, or are they more prescriptive as in a "Primitive Weapons" season where there are restrictions to the type of ML used.

[209x50]

Originally Posted by Vindalbakken

Do most jurisdictions have the ML season after or preceeding the regular season? Do most jurisdictions have an open ML season, or are they more prescriptive as in a "Primitive Weapons" season where there are restrictions to the type of ML used.

Depends on the local, SK has a ml season and anything goes. Some places in the US don't allow optics others require open ignition and one allows only bore sized projectiles.

Originally Posted by Vindalbakken

Do most jurisdictions have the ML season after or preceeding the regular season? Do most jurisdictions have an open ML season, or are they more prescriptive as in a "Primitive Weapons" season where there are restrictions to the type of ML used.

A bit of everything Vin. My only point was thast there was a lot of precedent for muzzleloader seasons in North America. I find the ones in Canada contain very few restrictions though. The most restrictive ones seem to be concentrated along the east coast of the U.S. where populations are high although there have been some in western states as well.

I've hunted several of them and it's nice to have the additional opportunity and I'm happy to play by the rules of the land.

[spot and stock]

Make the month of October muzzleloader/archery where regular rifle seasons open in November. No more tags given out and no extention on seasons. We wouldn't be the trend setters Sask has had that season for years.

I hunt with bow, M/L, and rifle, and I would love to pick up the front stuffer october 1st, and hunt a muley draw or something. and for the die hard bow hunters out there, you wouldn't lose anything. For those hunters not wanting to see firearms in there archery season, we got bow zones to suit your needs.

And yah I know some zones allow M/L loader hunting in a certain portion of October.

[duffy4]

Presently I apply for Camp Wainwright primitive weapons season each year.

Every once in a while I get drawn. Less often now that Muzzle Loaders have become more popular in Alberta. It is my "additional season" with a muzzle loader.

I would like to have a more regular "additional muzzle loader" hunting opportunity and if it fit in with F&Ws wildlife management objectives I'd like to see it.

In areas of high deer densities it would be ok to have additional deer tags for the additional muzzle loader season.

In our discussion here I don't see any real convincing points why we should have one or any convincing points why we should not have one.

There for by default we should have the additional hunting opportunity.

[Okotokian]

Originally Posted by duffy4

There for by default we should have the additional hunting opportunity.

..for everyone, regardless of weapon. Agreed.

[Jack&7]

Originally Posted by Okotokian

..for everyone, regardless of weapon. Agreed.

I don't know if I can agree with that position. I'm sure bowhunters wouldn't want a a rifle or a M/L in the next tree stand or ground blind just on a safety principle alone. I know that when I am using the M/L in Sask. (primitive weapons zone...just happens to be where I use it most), I am not required to wear blaze orange and therefore, I wouldn't want a rifle hunter taking a look at me from 400 yds away.

By having separate seasons, you eliminate that uncertainty. Everyone is on tha same page...using the same equipment allowed for that season.

I tend to equate it with fishing: you want to fish in a lake, you get a boat and some long rods...you want to ice fish, you get an ice rod (or tip up) and an auger...you want to fly-fish, get out the waders or float tube and even longer rods!

Either way, you're still fishing...just doing it a different way and a different skill set each time. I love hunting and to get a chance to use diferent tools to do it at different times of the year is just another way to make it fun.

I don't know if that's a good example to explain what I'm trying to say, but I hope you see my point. It's been a long day

[JustinC]

Originally Posted by Okotokian

..for everyone, regardless of weapon. Agreed.

I dont agree.That would be like in archery season having people with muzzle loaders running around.
I think If you still have a tag then you can hunt it with a muzzle loader after nov 30thfor a week or two. But no I dont think it should be a different draw for any animal.If you have not filled your tag(drawn or a general tag) you still have the alotted week or two to fill it.

[JustinC]

Originally Posted by spot and stock

Make the month of October muzzleloader/archery where regular rifle seasons open in November. No more tags given out and no extention on seasons. We wouldn't be the trend setters Sask has had that season for years.

I hunt with bow, M/L, and rifle, and I would love to pick up the front stuffer october 1st, and hunt a muley draw or something. and for the die hard bow hunters out there, you wouldn't lose anything. For those hunters not wanting to see firearms in there archery season, we got bow zones to suit your needs.
And yah I know some zones allow M/L loader hunting in a certain portion of October.

I dont like this as that is the best bowhunting.I still think it would be better after as that would be a better fit for hunters and wildlife.

[spot and stock]

Originally Posted by JustinC

I dont like this as that is the best bowhunting.I still think it would be better after as that would be a better fit for hunters and wildlife.

I agree that October is great for bow hunting especialy if we get white stuff, so it is that much better for muzzleloading. I am womdering why you think it would be better for hunters and wildlife to have it after the regular seasons?

No right or wrong here just curious about everyones thoughts.

[JustinC]

Originally Posted by spot and stock

I agree that October is great for bow hunting especialy if we get white stuff, so it is that much better for muzzleloading. I am womdering why you think it would be better for hunters and wildlife to have it after the regular seasons?

No right or wrong here just curious about everyones thoughts.

Like I said you use your tags from our regular season. So if you didnt fill them you get one last shot at it. For wildlife. They are still gun shy so you will have a hardeer time getting them. Also most people wil be done.so not as many people out there so not many more animals wild die cause of the late season in my opinnion.