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View Poll Results: Would you support the introduction of a bass fishery to Alberta.
Yes 201 52.34%
No 183 47.66%
Voters: 384. You may not vote on this poll

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  #241  
Old 04-14-2011, 11:51 AM
horsetrader horsetrader is offline
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She's a Tied Ball Game!!!
Yes very interesting not saying it will change anything but is nice to see people would like the option if it came up
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  #242  
Old 04-14-2011, 11:55 AM
Donkey Oatey Donkey Oatey is offline
 
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I suggest you go back to school even when there is a quote in front of you ..
You either can't read it or can't understand it ... Now you are starting to waste my time. You say nothing new and are so far off topic now..
Once again settling on personal attacks instead of debate. That is how you have been since you joined this forum.

Maybe it is you that should go back to school. Not once have you ever brought up any evidence that bass would be A) good for Alberta B) not be moved to areas they shouldn't be or C) what impacts there would be on native fisheries.

How about we import elk from the USA and keep them in a pen and hope they don't hurt native species. OOPS that one back fired. Oh wait how about cute little bunnies in New Zealand they won't hurt anything. OOPS backfired again.

Ya introducing species to an area that they are not native to has worked out so well in the past hasn't it? I don't feel it is worth it in this case. Sorry but you won't change my mind in this.
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  #243  
Old 04-14-2011, 12:20 PM
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I can't see either of you changing the others mind.

I guess what remains is an agreement to disagree.

A lot of excellent points have been raised by everyone in this thread.

I have been made aware of items in relation to this topic that I had not thought of, or considered before. In turn that will make me a better fisherman. That was my reason for joining and contributing to this forum.

I would suggest refreshments for everyone for raising excellent points and sharing their viewpoint.

:happy 0180:
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  #244  
Old 04-14-2011, 12:41 PM
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i am beginning to wonder if you two are getting paid for this on going merry go round debate.

Oates, it looks like you may be collecting a wage in the industry. good for you.

Trader, i'm glad you've chosen to "attempt" to bully someone else around this week on our sportsman forum. how bout some helpful advise or tips for some of the guys?

Dace. aka "donny"

...wait trader you're not a namer caller?
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  #245  
Old 04-14-2011, 03:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Donkey Oatey View Post
Once again settling on personal attacks instead of debate. That is how you have been since you joined this forum.

Maybe it is you that should go back to school. Not once have you ever brought up any evidence that bass would be A) good for Alberta B) not be moved to areas they shouldn't be or C) what impacts there would be on native fisheries.

How about we import elk from the USA and keep them in a pen and hope they don't hurt native species. OOPS that one back fired. Oh wait how about cute little bunnies in New Zealand they won't hurt anything. OOPS backfired again.

Ya introducing species to an area that they are not native to has worked out so well in the past hasn't it? I don't feel it is worth it in this case. Sorry but you won't change my mind in this.
Why should I debate you even when I answer you either can't or won't understand.just one more thing think of how many fish were all ready introduced with out that you would have a very poor fishery.
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  #246  
Old 04-14-2011, 03:20 PM
horsetrader horsetrader is offline
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Originally Posted by Daceminnow View Post
i am beginning to wonder if you two are getting paid for this on going merry go round debate.

Oates, it looks like you may be collecting a wage in the industry. good for you.

Trader, i'm glad you've chosen to "attempt" to bully someone else around this week on our sportsman forum. how bout some helpful advise or tips for some of the guys?

Dace. aka "donny"

...wait trader you're not a namer caller?
Now Dace your the last one I would bring up bullying I always found you to be a person who stood up for his beliefs and was willing to have a heated discussion to prove it.I would not call that bullying. Now is it because my beliefs aren't the same as your i'm bullying....And i did not call you Donny I said you were as redneck as Donny and Marie. If this bothered you I apologies it was ment to be funny not hurtfull. I'm sure we will disagree again and I will look forward to the exchange........
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  #247  
Old 04-14-2011, 03:26 PM
Donkey Oatey Donkey Oatey is offline
 
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Why should I debate you even when I answer you either can't or won't understand.just one more thing think of how many fish were all ready introduced with out that you would have a very poor fishery.
I have quoted every word you have said. Nothing of substance. You have not answered any of the questions put to you straight. Deflect, misdirect, yell, holler, I am being persecuted, blah blah blah.

So we have already been over the introduced species number and you got put in your place on that one after pulling a number out of your hind end. There is also some evidence that points to non-native trout species out competing native Bull Trout for food and habitat.

Sorry I don't buy the very poor fishery excuse. Just because you want to catch bass or crappy or blue gill or what ever else they catch in Ontario doesn't mean it was meant for Alberta. Give me pike, walleye, Bull Trout, perch, whitefish and the rest and I am happy. If I want to fish for coho I will go to the coast. If I want to fish for bass maybe I go to Ontario.

I guess I am just not too lazy to go to where the fish are, seems you want the fish to come to you.
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  #248  
Old 04-14-2011, 03:47 PM
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For sure once the fisheries we got wont support the fish we already have.
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  #249  
Old 04-14-2011, 04:04 PM
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YES'S are ahead
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  #250  
Old 04-14-2011, 04:12 PM
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YES'S are ahead
Sometimes people just want what they want............
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  #251  
Old 04-14-2011, 04:15 PM
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.

Last edited by pickrel pat; 04-14-2011 at 04:23 PM.
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  #252  
Old 04-14-2011, 05:32 PM
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its a runaway now....which is good...my lunch box will only increase in value
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  #253  
Old 04-14-2011, 06:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Donkey Oatey View Post
Every word was true in Sundance's post. He himself said that its been tried in more than one lake and failed. You would have to severely impact native fish population and then and even then the fish would be highly susceptible to stressors like harvest and habitat.

He said he would support the idea and I said I would not support the idea. If you look at the scientific method both out comes can come from the same set of criteria.
Wow...lots of commenting on me and nothing negative. Where is my stalker? Anyways...I read two ideas...one was just generally stocking bass and the other was suggesting putting bass in stocked put and take lakes. I did say I was torn...as such I agree with both Donkey and Horsetrader. I believe that it would be cool and I don't see bass taking over anything...like perch or snakeheads or asian carp. I do see it being very expensive to stock bass and to make it somewhat better cost effective we would need to find a large lake and try to establish a population. An aggressive predator in a small put and take lake would need a food source (minnows and crayfish) and such a lake would not support a lot of them. As such very few to be caught and definitely no harvest. In a large lake...I could not see harvest for 10 years (assuming we got a stable population). To get a stable population you would have to protect them and try and get them to naturally produce and then have the offspring survive to reproduce. Seeing consecutive years of successful year classes would be required. Smallies live quite well with walleye, lakers and pike in eastern US. However...winters are different and average water temperatures are probably higher.

If someone told me...hey Sundancefisher...we have approval from the Government including a budget and Alberta fishermen...including them dam locals (LOL...that was for HD)... I would probably pick Newell due to the southern proximity. Wabamun was tried probably due to the warmer effluent from the power plant...but still it did not work (I suspect predation).

So now I have Newell. I would get eggs from an Eastern Canada population...preferably as far north as possible as we know they have the best survival chances. While the eggs are hatching then growing for a couple years...I would open the lake up to liberal fishing limits on Walleye and Pike...extra emphasis on the Pike...less emphasis on the Walleye. Once the smallies are of a larger size...say 12 inches...I would release a large (but not too large) number into the lake...then continue stocking for the next 5 years... Each year test sampling in the Spring to gauge condition factors. Come spawning age...surveys to find spawning areas would be conducted. Then yearly surveys as well as sampling for young of the year and successive year classes.

It would be a fun project...but I would not guarantee that in 15 years we would have a reproducing population.

So...when can I start.
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  #254  
Old 04-14-2011, 06:18 PM
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[QUOTE=Sundancefisher;906201]Wow...lots of commenting on me and nothing negative. Where is my stalker? Anyways...I read two ideas...one was just generally stocking bass and the other was suggesting putting bass in stocked put and take lakes. I did say I was torn...as such I agree with both Donkey and Horsetrader. I believe that it would be cool and I don't see bass taking over anything...like perch or snakeheads or asian carp. I do see it being very expensive to stock bass and to make it somewhat better cost effective we would need to find a large lake and try to establish a population. An aggressive predator in a small put and take lake would need a food source (minnows and crayfish) and such a lake would not support a lot of them. As such very few to be caught and definitely no harvest. In a large lake...I could not see harvest for 10 years (assuming we got a stable population). To get a stable population you would have to protect them and try and get them to naturally produce and then have the offspring survive to reproduce. Seeing consecutive years of successful year classes would be required. Smallies live quite well with walleye, lakers and pike in eastern US. However...winters are different and average water temperatures are probably higher.

If someone told me...hey Sundancefisher...we have approval from the Government including a budget and Alberta fishermen...including them dam locals (LOL...that was for HD)... I would probably pick Newell due to the southern proximity. Wabamun was tried probably due to the warmer effluent from the power plant...but still it did not work (I suspect predation).

So now I have Newell. I would get eggs from an Eastern Canada population...preferably as far north as possible as we know they have the best survival chances. While the eggs are hatching then growing for a couple years...I would open the lake up to liberal fishing limits on Walleye and Pike...extra emphasis on the Pike...less emphasis on the Walleye. Once the smallies are of a larger size...say 12 inches...I would release a large (but not too large) number into the lake...then continue stocking for the next 5 years... Each year test sampling in the Spring to gauge condition factors. Come spawning age...surveys to find spawning areas would be conducted. Then yearly surveys as well as sampling for young of the year and successive year classes.

It would be a fun project...but I would not guarantee that in 15 years we would have a reproducing population.

So...when can I start.[/QUOTE]


you friggen clown!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!lol
you cant play God with Newell.....its become a world class walleye lake
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  #255  
Old 04-14-2011, 06:22 PM
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my pick is Yellow lakes
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  #256  
Old 04-14-2011, 06:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Sundancefisher View Post
Wow...lots of commenting on me and nothing negative. Where is my stalker? Anyways...I read two ideas...one was just generally stocking bass and the other was suggesting putting bass in stocked put and take lakes. I did say I was torn...as such I agree with both Donkey and Horsetrader. I believe that it would be cool and I don't see bass taking over anything...like perch or snakeheads or asian carp. I do see it being very expensive to stock bass and to make it somewhat better cost effective we would need to find a large lake and try to establish a population. An aggressive predator in a small put and take lake would need a food source (minnows and crayfish) and such a lake would not support a lot of them. As such very few to be caught and definitely no harvest. In a large lake...I could not see harvest for 10 years (assuming we got a stable population). To get a stable population you would have to protect them and try and get them to naturally produce and then have the offspring survive to reproduce. Seeing consecutive years of successful year classes would be required. Smallies live quite well with walleye, lakers and pike in eastern US. However...winters are different and average water temperatures are probably higher.

If someone told me...hey Sundancefisher...we have approval from the Government including a budget and Alberta fishermen...including them dam locals (LOL...that was for HD)... I would probably pick Newell due to the southern proximity. Wabamun was tried probably due to the warmer effluent from the power plant...but still it did not work (I suspect predation).

So now I have Newell. I would get eggs from an Eastern Canada population...preferably as far north as possible as we know they have the best survival chances. While the eggs are hatching then growing for a couple years...I would open the lake up to liberal fishing limits on Walleye and Pike...extra emphasis on the Pike...less emphasis on the Walleye. Once the smallies are of a larger size...say 12 inches...I would release a large (but not too large) number into the lake...then continue stocking for the next 5 years... Each year test sampling in the Spring to gauge condition factors. Come spawning age...surveys to find spawning areas would be conducted. Then yearly surveys as well as sampling for young of the year and successive year classes.

It would be a fun project...but I would not guarantee that in 15 years we would have a reproducing population.

So...when can I start.


Sent out E-Mail conformation should hear soon........
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  #257  
Old 04-14-2011, 06:50 PM
Princecraft164 Princecraft164 is offline
 
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Absolutely need to introduce bass to alberta, we're missing out.
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  #258  
Old 04-14-2011, 06:51 PM
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I second Newell they can use my share of trout money, I dont like trout anyways.
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  #259  
Old 04-14-2011, 06:58 PM
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I would be down for Yellow lakes Darter or a few small community lakes in different cities throughout the province.
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  #260  
Old 04-14-2011, 07:31 PM
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I would be down for Yellow lakes Darter or a few small community lakes in different cities throughout the province.
If I could get 500 bass to put in Sundance... I would do it and make it catch and release for them. Not sure what would happen. I would also like 500 tiger trout and 500 splake...and those blue marlin HD promised...would be perfect... Oh...to dare to dream...

Who knows...some of these man made lakes may winter kill this year. In the last week Sundance has grown about 2 inches of ice. We have an inch of new ice on the surface puddles.


Hmmm...starting fresh...no perch...no trout...just bass... LOL... Highly unlikely...

What we need is permission to put in 100 - 5 lb or bigger lingcod to eat the perch. Again ...dreaming...
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  #261  
Old 04-14-2011, 07:48 PM
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It would be pretty cool to set up a bass fishery at a lake that you have control over and do some testing. I would be interested to see how things would work out. If you need ling in there maybe just ask SRD if you can take a bit of the stock at PCR haha. They have more then enough in there. Would be pretty interesting to see how that would work out with taking care of the perch. I still need to try out sundance one of these days. I want to get one of them pigs on my loomis and watch the reel burn up.
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  #262  
Old 04-14-2011, 08:22 PM
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I can't believe bass would pose any problem in Alberta lakes. They live happily with pike, walleye, trout, perch, sunfish, whitefish, etc. in lakes in the east so it's not like they take over or anything. And they have been stocked in many Alberta lakes in the past but haven't ever become established except for some minor reproduction in Island Lake. So I don't think there are reasons to fear introducing this "foreign" fish... it's already been introduced to Alberta numerous times in numerous lakes. I just don't think they would do well here and stocking might be a waste of time. But if the govt. wanted to give it a try again based on new information that offered hope for successful introduction or even successful put-and-take, I'd be all for it. And apparently so would many others -- the "yes's" have pulled ahead...
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  #263  
Old 04-14-2011, 08:50 PM
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Ya they may not be able to spawn but neither do the trout in any of them. They would just have to stock them every year just like trout making it the same kind of deal as trout.

Like mentioned before by Darter. It would take money away from other programs in Alberta and cost a ton to created a facility to spawn them but it is possible if the money was there.

.
Great.....another poster that just blurts out nonsense without reading the previous 8 pages nor any of the logic that shows put-and-take bass stocking does NOT work in Canada.They are NOT "just like trout" that can be grown out relatively quickly in captivity,stocked in early spring as a reasonable pansize fish for P&T fishing and double their weight in one growing season.Bass are NOTHING like trout in that respect....Once again for those that missed it the first 10 times,or perhaps just choose to ignore the facts ....they take several(5+) years to grow to any decent size in Canada's 3-4 month bass growing season,therefore you cannot stock bass for P&T fishing and expect to replace them every year unless you are prepared to spend a rediculous fortune growing them in climate controlled captivity for 2-3 years prior to release.Let me explain it another way for the really simpleminded such as horsetrader......you can put 1000 3 inch trout in a pond in March and by august you have 1000 12 inch trout.You can put 1000 3 inch bass in the same pond in March,and in August you will have 1000 4 inch bass.....yippeee!!!Any trout that survive the winter will grow to 16-18 inches by next August.Any bass that happen to survive at all might reach 5-6 inches next August?Aside from the dangers of introducing a predatory invasive species that can absolutely destroy native trout fisheries when they ARE INEVITABLY introduced illegally to watersheds where they do not belong by bucket brigade Bill Dance wannabe b*****wholes,please explain to me how a species that grows so slowly has any merit as a candidate for PUT AND TAKE fisheries as you *****clowns insist on repeating over and over and over?P&T what for chrissakes?Put in 3 inchers and take out 4 inchers before they die next winter??Or should we spend 20-30X the money to grow bass indoors in climate controlled hatcheries for 2-3 years so we can release them as 3 pounders only to kill them immediately....because that IS what PUT and TAKE fishing is boneheads!!

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Originally Posted by horsetrader View Post
Why should I debate you even when I answer you either can't or won't understand.

Bwahahahahaaaaaaa....yer a fine one to make such a comment,you are the thickest person I think I've ever had the displeasure of debating any subject with.

And speaking of personal attacks HT,you like to question my knowledge on SMB,and in fact assume and like to state to the forum how I don't know what I'm talking about.....interesting how you come to that conclusion when it's clear to me (and most likely any other halfways educated person?)that you don't know jachchit about bass biology,life cycle,growth rates or reproduction.

I on the other hand have caught 1000's of bass in 4 different provinces and am well informed on the effects of these invasive menaces on native salmonids,in no small part from the first hand experience of witnessing my home waters destroyed by them before my very own eyes in my own relatively short lifetime.I've made it my business to know my enemy,and I am actively involved in educating fellow anglers in NB on discouraging and preventing the further proliferation of SMB on our home trout and salmon waters,and enthusiastically involved in eradication efforts of same.....or in other words,cleaning up after ignorant fools such as yourself.When it comes to understanding bass as a predatory invasive species and the negative effects it has on native salmonids sir,I could write a book on the subject whereas I'm quite certain you could fit what you know about it on the head of a pin.

Last edited by grinr; 04-14-2011 at 08:57 PM.
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  #264  
Old 04-14-2011, 08:56 PM
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Grinr I never said anything about put and take. I have mentioned it earlier until I heard about the slow growth rate. Doesn't mean they can't stock them and put a no keep limit on them for a few years. Just because they would be stocked doesn't mean they need to be kept.

You are the one blurting out things and not having an open mind to what is possible. Just because you don't want bass in Alberta doesn't mean they can't make it here.

You are a complete goof. Read the posts again. I am saying they could stock them like trout every year and keep a spawning class for every year for a few years and see how they do. I would be that way because they wouldn't be able to spawn. Have you ever heard of an aerator? They use them all the time to keep fish alive when winter kills are common. I am by no means a biologist but I am pretty sure I am a hell of a lot smarter then you. I hope someone gets bass in this province and they handle it just fine just to prove a point to you. I wouldn't be surprised if you still came on here tooting your own horn still trying to say they won't last.

Last edited by npauls; 04-14-2011 at 09:02 PM.
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  #265  
Old 04-14-2011, 09:16 PM
horsetrader horsetrader is offline
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Great.....another poster that just blurts out nonsense without reading the previous 8 pages nor any of the logic that shows put-and-take bass stocking does NOT work in Canada.They are NOT "just like trout" that can be grown out relatively quickly in captivity,stocked in early spring as a reasonable pansize fish for P&T fishing and double their weight in one growing season.Bass are NOTHING like trout in that respect....Once again for those that missed it the first 10 times,or perhaps just choose to ignore the facts ....they take several(5+) years to grow to any decent size in Canada's 3-4 month bass growing season,therefore you cannot stock bass for P&T fishing and expect to replace them every year unless you are prepared to spend a rediculous fortune growing them in climate controlled captivity for 2-3 years prior to release.Let me explain it another way for the really simpleminded such as horsetrader......you can put 1000 3 inch trout in a pond in March and by august you have 1000 12 inch trout.You can put 1000 3 inch bass in the same pond in March,and in August you will have 1000 4 inch bass.....yippeee!!!Any trout that survive the winter will grow to 16-18 inches by next August.Any bass that happen to survive at all might reach 5-6 inches next August?Aside from the dangers of introducing a predatory invasive species that can absolutely destroy native trout fisheries when they ARE INEVITABLY introduced illegally to watersheds where they do not belong by bucket brigade Bill Dance wannabe b*****wholes,please explain to me how a species that grows so slowly has any merit as a candidate for PUT AND TAKE fisheries as you *****clowns insist on repeating over and over and over?P&T what for chrissakes?Put in 3 inchers and take out 4 inchers before they die next winter??Or should we spend 20-30X the money to grow bass indoors in climate controlled hatcheries for 2-3 years so we can release them as 3 pounders only to kill them immediately....because that IS what PUT and TAKE fishing is boneheads!!




Bwahahahahaaaaaaa....yer a fine one to make such a comment,you are the thickest person I think I've ever had the displeasure of debating any subject with.

And speaking of personal attacks HT,you like to question my knowledge on SMB,and in fact assume and like to state to the forum how I don't know what I'm talking about.....interesting how you come to that conclusion when it's clear to me (and most likely any other halfways educated person?)that you don't know jachchit about bass biology,life cycle,growth rates or reproduction.

I on the other hand have caught 1000's of bass in 4 different provinces and am well informed on the effects of these invasive menaces on native salmonids,in no small part from the first hand experience of witnessing my home waters destroyed by them before my very own eyes in my own relatively short lifetime.I've made it my business to know my enemy,and I am actively involved in educating fellow anglers in NB on discouraging and preventing the further proliferation of SMB on our home trout and salmon waters,and enthusiastically involved in eradication efforts of same.....or in other words,cleaning up after ignorant fools such as yourself.When it comes to understanding bass as a predatory invasive species and the negative effects it has on native salmonids sir,I could write a book on the subject whereas I'm quite certain you could fit what you know about it on the head of a pin.
You can rant and rave all you want it will not make it any more correct
You could have saved your self a lot of time just by pasting what you said a day ago it is no different not sure why you felt the need to post it but to each his own. Anyway I'm done with you good bye........
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  #266  
Old 04-14-2011, 09:20 PM
grinr grinr is offline
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Grinr I never said anything about put and take. I have mentioned it earlier until I heard about the slow growth rate. Doesn't mean they can't stock them and put a no keep limit on them for a few years. Just because they would be stocked doesn't mean they need to be kept.

You are the one blurting out things and not having an open mind to what is possible. Just because you don't want bass in Alberta doesn't mean they can't make it here.

You are a complete goof. Read the posts again. I am saying they could stock them like trout every year and keep a spawning class for every year for a few years and see how they do. I would be that way because they wouldn't be able to spawn. Have you ever heard of an aerator? They use them all the time to keep fish alive when winter kills are common. I am by no means a biologist but I am pretty sure I am a hell of a lot smarter then you. I hope someone gets bass in this province and they handle it just fine just to prove a point to you. I wouldn't be surprised if you still came on here tooting your own horn still trying to say they won't last.
You don't understand GOOF!I hope to hell thay DO NOT last!I've witnessed firsthand what the LEGAL,government sposored introduction of smallmouth bass in NB(1890s) and NS (1940s)has done to the salmon and trout fisheries in those provinces once the bucket brigaders start moving them all over the place,and I wouldn't wish that on anybody.In the last 20-30 years,thanks in no small part to the saturation of the airwaves with bass fishing shows promoting C&R and live release tournaments,Bill Dance wannabes with dreams of becoming the next Bassmaster's classic winners have spread these spiny green bass turds from the few originally selected locations where they were introduced to hundreds of lakes and rivers throughout NB and NS for the convenience of having bass in their own backyards.So if bass God forbid ever do get introduced and established in Alberta,yes I will be back on here,not "tooting my horn" but rather to say "I told ya so".
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  #267  
Old 04-14-2011, 10:07 PM
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npauls npauls is offline
 
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I guess we will see.

If you are so mad about it back east why don't you move back there and fight your battle there?

You aren't going to change the minds of the people that would like to see bass introduced into the only province that doesn't have them right now.

They have proved that they can survive in Alberta in Island lake. They may not be able to spawn but they sure can survive. Trout can't spawn in alot of lakes and they just stock every year. No reason bass couldn't be the same way.
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  #268  
Old 04-14-2011, 10:13 PM
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Willowtrail Willowtrail is offline
 
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Originally Posted by grinr View Post
You don't understand GOOF!I hope to hell thay DO NOT last!I've witnessed firsthand what the LEGAL,government sposored introduction of smallmouth bass in NB(1890s) and NS (1940s)has done to the salmon and trout fisheries in those provinces once the bucket brigaders start moving them all over the place,and I wouldn't wish that on anybody.In the last 20-30 years,thanks in no small part to the saturation of the airwaves with bass fishing shows promoting C&R and live release tournaments,Bill Dance wannabes with dreams of becoming the next Bassmaster's classic winners have spread these spiny green bass turds from the few originally selected locations where they were introduced to hundreds of lakes and rivers throughout NB and NS for the convenience of having bass in their own backyards.So if bass God forbid ever do get introduced and established in Alberta,yes I will be back on here,not "tooting my horn" but rather to say "I told ya so".
Interesting, your over 120 years old.
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  #269  
Old 04-14-2011, 10:20 PM
horsetrader horsetrader is offline
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Interesting, your over 120 years old.
WOW no wonder he rambles at that age.
I feel bad now................
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  #270  
Old 04-14-2011, 10:27 PM
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npauls npauls is offline
 
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Ya I guess being the young punk I am I should not speak to a senior citizen of that age.
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