Burbot zero limit Feb 1-March 31

[Sundancefisher]

When did this come into effect. Nice to see burbs have spawning protection

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

When did this come into effect. Nice to see burbs have spawning protection

what lakes?

[Talking moose]

Was like that on buffalo last year.

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by Talking moose

Was like that on buffalo last year.

cold lake/ ethel open until 31 mar...10 daily limit....so like I asked the OP for further clarification before a landslide happens and people go wonky

[WildCats]

Burbot have been closed on most central and southern water on February.1st for quite a few years now. Quite a few lakes remain open in the north.

WC

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk

[Talking moose]

Originally Posted by 58thecat

cold lake/ ethel open until 31 mar...10 daily limit....so like I asked the OP for further clarification before a landslide happens and people go wonky

That’s awesome.

[Talking moose]

2019 regs were like that for sylvan as well.
But 2018 wasn’t.

[.243dude]

No changes down south that i can see.

[Pioneer2]

Has mismanaged it's fisheries for decades resulting in where we are now.Same as pike with most places zero limit from 10 a day any day......Who knew.

[OL_JR]

PP2 lakes went to zero from Feb 1 to March 31 in 2012.

[Talking moose]

Originally Posted by OL_JR

PP2 lakes went to zero from Feb 1 to March 31 in 2012.

Yup. I was reading the 2018 regs wrong.

[SNAPFisher]

Originally Posted by OL_JR

PP2 lakes went to zero from Feb 1 to March 31 in 2012.

Bang on! Nothing new here.

[Dewey Cox]

I was just thinking
"I should get another trip into Buffalo before you can't keep the burbot anymore"
Stupid calender...

[Sundancefisher]

Darn. Looks like in the North. I was hoping it included southern lakes.

When with F&W get their act together and protect all fish during their spawning time.

PP2 only. Shame

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

Darn. Looks like in the North. I was hoping it included southern lakes.

When with F&W get their act together and protect all fish during their spawning time.

PP2 only. Shame

Not all lakes are equal so maybe targeting them during the spawn on one body of water is key to keeping numbers down and leaving them alone on another is key to increasing numbers....I dont you or I are qualified to determine this.

[walking buffalo]

So much for the good old days of playing kick the fishstick with all the burbot thrown and left on the ice.

I like to think that AO helped change burbot management and laws.

Some AO history From 2010 that may have helped give Burbot some respect.

http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showt...ghlight=burbot

which led to this.
http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showt...ghlight=burbot

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

So much for the good old days of playing kick the fishstick with all the burbot thrown and left on the ice.

I like to think that AO helped change burbot management and laws.

Some AO history From 2010 that may have helped give Burbot some respect.

http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showt...ghlight=burbot

which led to this.
http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showt...ghlight=burbot

Sad when people allowed to net are wasting fish cuz thier not the targeted species etc....people have come across pike too....small ones but if netted they should be used accordingly....

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by 58thecat

Not all lakes are equal so maybe targeting them during the spawn on one body of water is key to keeping numbers down and leaving them alone on another is key to increasing numbers....I dont you or I are qualified to determine this.

I am probably closer to qualified maybe however you are correct insofar as one would need population estimates and year class estimates and harvest estimates across any given lake to give a specific targeted approach to fisheries management.

That being said we don’t have the info, nor manpower, nor funding so then one turns to a blanket approach.

Burbot are a highly targeted sport fish now with a very liberal retention limit. When you combine that with fishing during the spawning time when they concentrate up you encourage the collapse of the fishery.

Pine Coulee is a example.

When one looks back over time you can see examples of over harvest causing significant problems. Given the significant rise is angler hours over the past number of years, I fear we have not adjusted retention rates appropriately.

We can see that in collapsed mountain whitefish populations, collapsed perch, pike and walleye populations. Put and take trout fisheries that front load the take in the first few weeks after stocking, grayling etc.

It is always a fools game to allow harvest during spawning of any sport fish...yet we do it for some. Why? Typically it is rooted in bias of past and sometimes current fisheries managers deeming a species to be less desirable and/or a garbage fish and or a competitor for species they feel is more desirable.

Wholesale messing with species composition can yield unintended consequences.

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

So much for the good old days of playing kick the fishstick with all the burbot thrown and left on the ice.

I like to think that AO helped change burbot management and laws.

Some AO history From 2010 that may have helped give Burbot some respect.

http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showt...ghlight=burbot

which led to this.
http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showt...ghlight=burbot

Years back I raised a stink about it being illegal to leave wild game to rot but not leaving sportfish to rot.

Sometimes they do listen.

[Brovacs]

I completely agree that burbot limits are ridiculous and need to be adjusted for the southern part of the province. I think that people have started to target them after the limits for pike and walleye have been cut. Same thing happened when the walleye stocks collapsed and pike limits remained, they got hammered and now they have collapsed in a lot of the reservoirs. People who want to eat fresh fish just move to their angling pressure to what species they can retain. The big problem with burbot too is they are generally hard for Fish and Wildlife to net and get estimates of the population. They don't move a ton during open water season so netting surveys don't provide super reliable data. By the time there is any indication that things are going poorly, they'll likely be far worse in reality. Its not just burbot though, I can see how lake whitefish, goldeye and perch populations could all be in danger of collapse. Growing up the number of people who fished goldeye was small compared to now and I believe that's because there still is a 10 fish per person limit and the walleye and pike fisheries are mostly closed to retention. Retention limits need to reduced across the board or else this cycle will just keep happening where individual species populations collapse and recover.

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

I am probably closer to qualified maybe however you are correct insofar as one would need population estimates and year class estimates and harvest estimates across any given lake to give a specific targeted approach to fisheries management.

That being said we don’t have the info, nor manpower, nor funding so then one turns to a blanket approach.

Burbot are a highly targeted sport fish now with a very liberal retention limit. When you combine that with fishing during the spawning time when they concentrate up you encourage the collapse of the fishery.

Pine Coulee is a example.

When one looks back over time you can see examples of over harvest causing significant problems. Given the significant rise is angler hours over the past number of years, I fear we have not adjusted retention rates appropriately.

We can see that in collapsed mountain whitefish populations, collapsed perch, pike and walleye populations. Put and take trout fisheries that front load the take in the first few weeks after stocking, grayling etc.

It is always a fools game to allow harvest during spawning of any sport fish...yet we do it for some. Why? Typically it is rooted in bias of past and sometimes current fisheries managers deeming a species to be less desirable and/or a garbage fish and or a competitor for species they feel is more desirable.

Wholesale messing with species composition can yield unintended consequences.

maybe not always a fools game to allow fishing during spawning if the intention is to reduce population...lake location, species numbers all play into the big picture...just talking burbs here.

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by 58thecat

maybe not always a fools game to allow fishing during spawning if the intention is to reduce population...lake location, species numbers all play into the big picture...just talking burbs here.

For an invasive species not native to the lake...kicking them hard during spawning makes sense.

In a natural ecosystem, targeting one species usually has bad unintended consequences.

If there was data that says burbot numbers are high due to successful spawning, lack of predation etc... then sure. Control the population during spawning.

Right now in Alberta we have zero data on burbot numbers relative to normal distributions. The only reason there could be since we lack scientific data is species bias.

A limit of 10 and targeting during spawning should come with scientific credibility. Otherwise you and I will be talking about the good old days before burbot populations crashed and burned.

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

For an invasive species not native to the lake...kicking them hard during spawning makes sense.

In a natural ecosystem, targeting one species usually has bad unintended consequences.

If there was data that says burbot numbers are high due to successful spawning, lack of predation etc... then sure. Control the population during spawning.

Right now in Alberta we have zero data on burbot numbers relative to normal distributions. The only reason there could be since we lack scientific data is species bias.

A limit of 10 and targeting during spawning should come with scientific credibility. Otherwise you and I will be talking about the good old days before burbot populations crashed and burned.

I agree with you but perhaps with the northern lakes the burbs are not so targeted until the spawn and numbers are sustainable the way it is? Where does one inquire the scientific data? I am sure that there is a reason for the regs to indicate limits etc but where do we get this information/reasoning?

I know down south and with the higher population the lakes take a kicking but up here is a different story.

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by 58thecat

I agree with you but perhaps with the northern lakes the burbs are not so targeted until the spawn and numbers are sustainable the way it is? Where does one inquire the scientific data? I am sure that there is a reason for the regs to indicate limits etc but where do we get this information/reasoning?

I know down south and with the higher population the lakes take a kicking but up here is a different story.

Yes. In a lake with low fishing pressure on burbot it likely wouldn’t be impactful if the population is robust.

Alberta for years hasn’t had the budget or manpower to do significant fisheries studies. In the past some test netting was done...mostly to support a limited commercial fishery.

In a perfect world, and with increased fishing pressure, the understanding of yearly fish populations driving retention rates would be far superior to blanket regs.

Money is the hurdle so blanket regs is more the norm.

Talking to people about burbot in Pine Coulee there were tons snd lots of people targeting the spawn after dark. Now the population is way, way down from the normal days past.

Still...if you know where burbot congregate in a lake for spawning...they a super vulnerable to over fishing and over harvest.

Check this out for example

https://mywildalberta.ca/fishing/reg...Jul01-2018.pdf

Burbot objective. Sustainable harvest. Population status...unknown. Harvest 10 any size.

Historically F&W never cared about tracking burbot. Therefore there is lacking baseline population data.

Why care about burbot? They do prey on sport fish. They may also help control crayfish. They may also control sick fish making the population more robust.

[58thecat]

your right we should care about all fish in the lake as they tend to balance themselves out but throw us into the mix...potential recipe for disaster...one thing I have said about hunting and it applies to fishing too is that if your in tune with a lake or area for hunting and the regs say you legally can even though you know its wrong then we can make that difference....sad thing is that there is a portion of people that will take and take more legal or not legal.

If anyone can dig up data on why some lakes remain open during burbs spawning season that would be greatly appreciated.

Until then...tight lines!

[Brovacs]

A lot of lakes are still open because they have not completed sufficient FSI (Fish Sustainability Index) surveys for them. On the AEP website it says that they are currently in works.
https://www.alberta.ca/fsi-metrics-and-mapping.aspx

Could be years before they have sufficient data to make a call either way though. Until then they just leave the regs as is.

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by Brovacs

A lot of lakes are still open because they have not completed sufficient FSI (Fish Sustainability Index) surveys for them. On the AEP website it says that they are currently in works.
https://www.alberta.ca/fsi-metrics-and-mapping.aspx

Could be years before they have sufficient data to make a call either way though. Until then they just leave the regs as is.

That makes sense....now like I said if your in tune with a lake and you know it's not right even though legal then dont do it....we too are conservationists....we play a huge roll in this so adjust accordingly and stop laying blame and take on some responsibility.

[Brovacs]

I personally keep very few fish and I think that most members here follow similar principles as we are the ones who are passionate about the preservation of the resource. The issues arise because we make up only a small portion of the community. Then the "Tragedy of the Commons" kicks in and people over exploit the fisheries. I think there needs to be more effort put in to angler education where I envision a online couple hour course similar to hunter education with a focus on fish ID, proper handling and unhooking techniques is required before you get a license. Then once you complete it you only have to recertify every 5 years or so when your WIN expires. This and more money put towards enforcement and studies like the FSI would be a big help in my opinion. Problem is this all costs money. I'd personally pay higher licence fees or taxes if it went towards initiatives like this but that's me. I think any sort of change of that nature would be vehemently opposed by most Albertans.

[SNAPFisher]

Originally Posted by 58thecat

That makes sense....now like I said if your in tune with a lake and you know it's not right even though legal then dont do it....we too are conservationists....we play a huge roll in this so adjust accordingly and stop laying blame and take on some responsibility.

I really like the way you have worded and approached a lot of posts on this topic. Thanks for that!
Anyone who believes "It said 10 limit so I took 10" and continues to do so is a real part of the problem.

[fish99]

Originally Posted by SNAPFisher

I really like the way you have worded and approached a lot of posts on this topic. Thanks for that!
Anyone who believes "It said 10 limit so I took 10" and continues to do so is a real part of the problem.

there is no need to have a more then one limit except for perch,