Wolf Control

[209x50]

I had the distinct pleasure of spending some time on Gordy Klassen's trap line on the weekend. We made many miles on foot, Argo and truck. Never found a whitetail buck to shoot but not once did we cut a wolf track. Five years ago when I was in there hunting moose it was nothing to hear three different packs hunting every night and see tracks and kills everywhere. Today is much different and I say hats off to someone who is doing his share for the game populations. Maybe the government should hire him to get the wolf populations under control.

[walking buffalo]

Wolf populations and density dynamics is an interesting topic, and one that hunters in Alberta need to become and remain aware of.

Your post makes me wonder, is the lack of wolves in this area because of increased hunting/trapping effort, or because of a decrease in prey, and the wolves have moved to a new area.

Several posts on AO recently have described areas with past high wolf densities and low prey populations, now experiencing a decrease in wolf populations.

[wolfkilr]

Probably no wolves because there is not much game. I didn't know Gordy hunted out of his trapline cabin.

If you want to see a real credible wolfer, spend some time with Paul Trepus from B.C. on his line.

[walking buffalo]

209,

Can you provide the wolf harvest stats from this area and surrounding areas?

If there is still a strong prey population in this area, it is interesting that wolves are not inhabiting it anymore. If the local wolf packs have been culled, why is there no wolf immigration from surrounding areas?

I have high regards for Gordon, from what I have read of his work in trapping, teaching, and his involvement with many government funded wolf studies.

If he was able to single-handedly control the wolf population in a wilderness area with a strong ungulate population, there are MANY conservation agencies, resource based companies, and governments in North America that need to know how he did it.

Originally Posted by wolfkilr

Probably no wolves because there is not much game. I didn't know Gordy hunted out of his trapline cabin.

If you want to see a real credible wolfer, spend some time with Paul Trepus from B.C. on his line.

Some things come out really bad on messageboards and are easily misconstrued and were never the intent of the poster and I'm sure that's the case here. I'm certain you are not insinuating that Gordy isn't "real credible". It just kind of came out that way.....right?

[209x50]

Originally Posted by wolfkilr

Probably no wolves because there is not much game. I didn't know Gordy hunted out of his trapline cabin.

If you want to see a real credible wolfer, spend some time with Paul Trepus from B.C. on his line.

Never said I hunted with Gordy or from his cabin. I have no idea where his cabins are. I only know I was on his line because he told me so when I met him out in the woods a couple years ago.
I think until you learn how to read your own credibility is suspect.

[209x50]

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

Wolf populations and density dynamics is an interesting topic, and one that hunters in Alberta need to become and remain aware of.

Your post makes me wonder, is the lack of wolves in this area because of increased hunting/trapping effort, or because of a decrease in prey, and the wolves have moved to a new area.

Several posts on AO recently have described areas with past high wolf densities and low prey populations, now experiencing a decrease in wolf populations.

In this case I believe it is his efforts that have the wolf population down and the moose population healthy because of it. We saw plenty of moose and plenty of sign in the fresh snow.
I know from talking to Gordy that he vigorously pursues wolves and has good success there. I'm sure wolves move in from surrounding areas and I'm sure he catches them as well. I don't remember the exact numbers he told me he caught.

[walking buffalo]

It would be very important for Gordon to qualify and publish the effects of his trapping efforts and results.
The Ab Gov's #1 management strategy to reduce the wolf population is to overharvest ungulates. This decision is still in effect chiefly because they have determined that trapping efforts are insufficient to reduce wolf density.

I know my comment is a broken record, repeat, repeat, repeat......

The Ab Gov's #1 management strategy to reduce the wolf population is to overharvest ungulates!

I know Nathan Webb with SRD would like to prove Gordon's success, so that SRD can manage wolves rather than manage for low ungulate populations.


History shows that we CAN reduce wolf populations with sufficient trapping effort. Gordon's effort's are likely mirroring history.

Changes to the Trapping regulations are needed to ensure wolf harvest is increased. Set minimum wolf harvest on a RFMA or the trapper loses the right to exclusive WOLF trapping rights in that RFMA. Open it up for other trappers, registered or resident.

[209x50]

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

It would be very important for Gordon to qualify and publish the effects of his trapping efforts and results.
The Ab Gov's #1 management strategy to reduce the wolf population is to overharvest ungulates. This decision is still in effect chiefly because they have determined that trapping efforts are insufficient to reduce wolf density.

I know my comment is a broken record, repeat, repeat, repeat......

The Ab Gov's #1 management strategy to reduce the wolf population is to overharvest ungulates!

I know Nathan Webb with SRD would like to prove Gordon's success, so that SRD can manage wolves rather than manage for low ungulate populations.


History shows that we CAN reduce wolf populations with sufficient trapping effort. Gordon's effort's are likely mirroring history.

Changes to the Trapping regulations are needed to ensure wolf harvest is increased. Set minimum wolf harvest on a RFMA or the trapper loses the right to exclusive WOLF trapping rights in that RFMA. Open it up for other trappers, registered or resident.

I too cannot understand the crazy plan. I don't understand how anyone could believe that killing all the moose in 355 and 353 is going to help save the caribou. Tag numbers are so high in these two WMUs that it is ridiculous. To my perhaps overly simple way of thinking if there are no moose to eat won't the wolves just switch to caribou until they are gone and then move on?
I need to talk to Gordy this is interesting.

[walking buffalo]

I don't know if Nathan Webb has been successful in getting this research project funded and started. But at least he is trying to find an alternative way to manage wolves other than through killing all the moose, elk, and deer.

This link opens up to this file,

Proposal for A Wolf Management experiment in Alberta
Nathan Webb and Evelyn Merrill, University of Alberta – Edmonton, AB
Anne Hubbs, Alberta Fish and Wildlife

http://www.aenweb.ca/files/Webb-Merr...ment_Jan08.doc

[hunt_and_fish]

Originally Posted by 209x50

To my perhaps overly simple way of thinking if there are no moose to eat won't the wolves just switch to caribou until they are gone and then move on?

That's exactly how I see it too. I can understand the premise that the more moose there are in an area, the more wolves there will be and the more wolves there are, the more caribou will be killed. However, their strategy seems to ignore that there is going to be a transition as moose numbers decline. I highly doubt that the wolves will just move on from an area the very instant the moose numbers hit a threshold. I would imagine that there has to be a period of time when the moose numbers will be low but the wolf numbers will still be high and they will be having to cover extra ground looking harder for prey. Then when they find a herd of caribou, they'll just follow them around until they've killed them all.

[wolfkilr]

[QUOTE=sheephunter;742187]Some things come out really bad on messageboards and are easily misconstrued and were never the intent of the poster and I'm sure that's the case here. I'm certain you are not insinuating that Gordy isn't "real credible". It just kind of came out that way.....right?[/QUOTE]


Just got back on here and yes I did not mean he was not credible.
Trepus does it for a living which is very different than a part-timer. He is very successful and has the ear of the SRD equivilent in B.C..

Originally Posted by wolfkilr

[[
Just got back on here and yes I did not mean he was not credible.
Trepus does it for a living which is very different than a part-timer. He is very successful and has the ear of the SRD equivilent in B.C..

I don't know Gordy well but from what I do know I do think highly of him.....at least I know his heart is in the right place. I've sat on some of the same boards with him and shared the odd fire and I think he's pretty successful and he definitely has the ear of the SRD equivilent here in Alberta. From what I've seen, he commands a lot of respect. From my perspective, I think we could have worse people talking to SRD about predator control. I don't know Trepus but I'm sure he's very qualified as well and could quite likely offer some valuable suggestions as well...the more the merrier if it come up with a solution to our high wolf populations.

As for the rest of your post, I'll resist the temptation to join in the personal insult frey. It's got nothing to do with me.

[landowner]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

I don't know Gordy well but from what I do know I do think highly of him.....at least I know his heart is in the right place. I've sat on some of the same boards with him and shared the odd fire and I think he's pretty successful and he definitely has the ear of the SRD equivilent here in Alberta. From what I've seen, he commands a lot of respect. From my perspective, I think we could have worse people talking to SRD about predator control. I don't know Trepus but I'm sure he's very qualified as well and could quite likely offer some valuable suggestions as well...the more the merrier if it come up with a solution to our high wolf populations.

As for the rest of your post, I'll resist the temptation to join in the personal insult frey. It's got nothing to do with me.

Took a course from Gordy, last year down here in the south. Excellent wolfer, SRD definatly sat up and took notice when they heard ranchers were bringing him in for consultation.

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by landowner

Took a course from Gordy, last year down here in the south. Excellent wolfer, SRD definatly sat up and took notice when they heard ranchers were bringing him in for consultation.

It must suck when their experiments get snared.

[landowner]

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

It must suck when their experiments get snared.

yup

[fat cat]

I agree: Hire Gordy, and trepus, it doesn't matter get an expert on this. Local F&W have to much to do, and don't have the experience to deal with this problem. Can we get the local fish &game, cattlemen assoc. ect to help subidise? There is already a bounty of 500.00 in the clearhills county. What more would it take to get some of these guy's here?

[duffy4]

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

I don't know if Nathan Webb has been successful in getting this research project funded and started. But at least he is trying to find an alternative way to manage wolves other than through killing all the moose, elk, and deer.

This link opens up to this file,

Proposal for A Wolf Management experiment in Alberta
Nathan Webb and Evelyn Merrill, University of Alberta – Edmonton, AB
Anne Hubbs, Alberta Fish and Wildlife

http://www.aenweb.ca/files/Webb-Merr...ment_Jan08.doc

Unless they have had another run at this, it was not funded when first brought up a few years ago.

we had a bit of discussion on the board here about it. And many of the members did not understand it just as they do not understand much of the complexity of wildlife management issues.

[packhuntr]

Originally Posted by duffy4

Unless they have had another run at this, it was not funded when first brought up a few years ago.

we had a bit of discussion on the board here about it. And many of the members did not understand it just as they do not understand much of the complexity of wildlife management issues.

Duffy,,, you sound just like a government employee when asked direct questions about some of our wildlife and thier managment.. Why is that?? You know, the first, the last, and sometimes the only thing you get out of them is, "Its complicated", LOL! There are some real easy fixes out there, but we wont admit to being wrong will we boys??? MAR-GIN-AL, what else can one say LOL! Please stop assuming that everyone is stupid. In the end, I only hope theres some remnant left for my boys and thier families in 20 years, theres not alot of hope beyond that.

[houndsmen]

I bet if you could turn Gordy, Trepus, and Dan Lay loose to do nothing but trap wolves in Alberta they would straighten em' out in a few seasons.....any one of these guys can pretty much go into an area and clean them out one pack after another.

[209x50]

Originally Posted by houndsmen

I bet if you could turn Gordy, Trepus, and Dan Lay loose to do nothing but trap wolves in Alberta they would straighten em' out in a few seasons.....any one of these guys can pretty much go into an area and clean them out one pack after another.

Hey I'm all for it. The govt doesn't seem to have the will power to poison or heli shoot the wolves so why not get it done by the wolfers?

[NCC]

Catching wolves isn't easy but it isn't rocket science either. Trapping private land, right beside a registered trapline, a local resident trapper caught 8 wolves last year in his first year of trapping. The only year I set snares I caught one wolf and several coyotes in the same spot. If the registered trapper would have set any snares, I'm sure he would have caught them instead. Something needs to change so that more guys have the opportunity to set snares.

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by fat cat

I agree: Hire Gordy, and trepus, it doesn't matter get an expert on this. Local F&W have to much to do, and don't have the experience to deal with this problem. Can we get the local fish &game, cattlemen assoc. ect to help subidise? There is already a bounty of 500.00 in the clearhills county. What more would it take to get some of these guy's here?

Clearhills County AND MD of Big Lakes are paying a bounty on wolves this year.

http://new.producer.com/News/Article.aspx?aid=27357

Any others?

[Craddosk]

Originally Posted by hunt_and_fish

That's exactly how I see it too. I can understand the premise that the more moose there are in an area, the more wolves there will be and the more wolves there are, the more caribou will be killed. However, their strategy seems to ignore that there is going to be a transition as moose numbers decline. I highly doubt that the wolves will just move on from an area the very instant the moose numbers hit a threshold. I would imagine that there has to be a period of time when the moose numbers will be low but the wolf numbers will still be high and they will be having to cover extra ground looking harder for prey. Then when they find a herd of caribou, they'll just follow them around until they've killed them all.

Actually, what occurs is when moose populate an area, the wolves follow them in. Caribou are not in large groups and inhabit areas that are ill suited to moose and wolves. As a result, wolves (before high moose numbers) generally did not inhabit the area. So, by lowering the number of moose in the area, wolves will leave, as caribou are difficult to locate and in non-preferential terrain.

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by Craddosk

Actually, what occurs is when moose populate an area, the wolves follow them in. Caribou are not in large groups and inhabit areas that are ill suited to moose and wolves. As a result, wolves (before high moose numbers) generally did not inhabit the area. So, by lowering the number of moose in the area, wolves will leave, as caribou are difficult to locate and in non-preferential terrain.

That was the theory. Doesn't work this way in the real world.

If the wolves "followed" the moose and left the caribou alone, Alberta and British Columbia would not have had Emergency Airial Wolf Culls to save endangered caribou herds last winter.

[MountainTi]

Originally Posted by Craddosk

Actually, what occurs is when moose populate an area, the wolves follow them in. Caribou are not in large groups and inhabit areas that are ill suited to moose and wolves. As a result, wolves (before high moose numbers) generally did not inhabit the area. So, by lowering the number of moose in the area, wolves will leave, as caribou are difficult to locate and in non-preferential terrain.

Take a drive up hwy. 40 between Grande Cache and Hinton sometime. The caribou are not that difficult to locate and the terrain is pretty easy going. Not sure if they still do it, but there used to be people who's job it was to drive up and down the hwy. and chase the caribou off.

[-CLM-]

not once did we cut a wolf track. Five years ago when I was in there hunting moose it was nothing to hear three different packs hunting every night and see tracks and kills everywhere. Today is much different and I say hats off to someone who is doing his share for the game populations.

Gordy told me once that he averages 50 wolves per season. Its no wonder you did not cut any tracks. I would say x2 on a job well done!

[duffy4]

Lets say there are 4 or 5 really good wolf trappers in Alberta, hell lets say 25. Thats not nearly enough to do too much to the wolf population.

Lets say that hunters kill a couple dozen wolves a year while out hunting big game and some guys go out just to hunt wolves and kill a couple more dozen.

Still not good enough. (sure it will help a lot if that kind of harvest continues each year)


Lets say, In one specific area (a packs territory),there is a pack of 8 wolves. Trappers and hunters kill 4 in one year and now the pack is 4. In the spring the breeding pair has 4 pups and because there is plenty of game to eat all 4 survive and by fall the pack is 8 again.

When I say plenty of game I mean in the packs territory there are 20 caribou, 200 moose, 100 elk, 800 mule deer, 1500 white-tails and a host of beaver.

The pack eats a lot of deer. They get more than a few moose and elk and they manage to bump into a caribou now and then and kill it.

The pack is healthy and sustainable. Food is not really a limiting factor. If the trappers and hunters slow down there harvest the pack will grow.

The low numbers of caribou is kept low because they just keep getting whittled down.

If the deer, moose and elk numbers were down then the wolves would not have it so easy hunting and the pups would not all survive and the pack would shrink in size. That would be good for the caribou and all the other game animals.

[NCC]

That is a good theory but by the time the wolves eat all the ungulates, the wolf population crashes, and the ungulates rebound to reasonable levels, we will all be too old to care. It is better to manage to the wolf numbers and over the long term average there will probably even be more wolves as their numbers won't crash from a lack of prey.

If 500 trappers each snared 4 or 5 wolves, it would make a significant dent in the population. From my very limited experience ( I snared one alpha female) the pack was disrupted and much less active.

[Elkaholic6]

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

Clearhills County AND MD of Big Lakes are paying a bounty on wolves this year.

http://new.producer.com/News/Article.aspx?aid=27357

Any others?

300 bones babyyy!