30-30, 25-06, 30-6 etc..

[flatblack]

educate me as i cant seem to figure out where these terms come from? is either of these numbers the calliber? and what is the "odd" or - for?
heres a few i know of
30-30, 30-6, 25-06, 22-250

[Homesteader]

I'll try on a few, but some are guesses,
30-30, one of them I believe refers to the caliber, and the other 30 may somehow relate to grains of blackpowder that it was originally loaded with?

All the 06's refer to the year of inception so to speak of the the 30-06, as it is the parent case of the 25-06. I believe the the 30-06 was originally called something like 03 Springfield?

22-250 refers to 22 cal on a necked down 250-3000 case maybe?

I'm sure somebody will know the answers with certainty, but it is certainly weird how the numbers originated, I think the metric cartridges make more sense but hey what fun are they, these other ones have a little mystique to them.

[SakoAlberta]

Homesteader was correct on most of what he replied. The 30/30 is the weird one. It is 30 cal(the first '30') and was loaded with 30 grains of smokeless(never loaded with BP) It didn't make a lot of sense to do this as the grains of smokeless didn't really give the shooter much of an idea but it was done as it was one of the first smokeless cartridges and people were used to seeing bore followed by grains of black powder, ie, 45/70, 38/55, 40/65 etc.
When you say 'odd' I think you might have meant 'ought' as in 30 ought 6. Just an 'old fashioned' term for zero.
The 30/06 is, as HS said, a .30 cal designed in 1906. (originally, a 30/03 was made but redesgined in 1906 with lighter bullets and a slightly different case length)
The 25/06 was not designed in 1906, its a .25 cal based on the 30/06 case. 22/250 is a .22 cal based on the 250 savage case. Interestingly, the original name for the .250 Savage was the .250-3000 which meant 250 cal and 3000fps which was to advertise the extreme velocity(at the time) of the cartridge.
Confusing, eh?

[munyee4321]

Typically for rifle calibers the first two numbers stamped represents the caliber itself... so 25-06 is a .25 caliber cartridge. The any number after that is usually derived from the creator of the cartridge whether its the year the cartridge was made or if it was made from an other cartridge casing. Again the 25-06... the 06 means the this cartridge was made is based off the 30-06 cartridge.
7mm-08- 7mm caliber(.284) based of a .308 casing

[SakoAlberta]

Originally Posted by munyee4321

Typically for rifle calibers the first two numbers stamped represents the caliber itself... so 25-06 is a .25 caliber cartridge. The any number after that is usually derived from the creator of the cartridge whether its the year the cartridge was made or if it was made from an other cartridge casing. Again the 25-06... the 06 means the this cartridge was made is based off the 30-06 cartridge.
7mm-08- 7mm caliber(.284) based of a .308 casing

...unless it happens to be British. I've got a 450/400 that is a 450 necked to 400. (Also, the British use land diameter instead of bullet diameter, ie, a .303 British uses .311 bullets)

[Okotokian]

Originally Posted by sakoalberta

...unless it happens to be british. I've got a 450/400 that is a 450 necked to 400. (also, the british use land diameter instead of bullet diamete, ie, a .303 british uses .311 bullets)

Doctor! My brain hurts!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[munyee4321]

Originally Posted by SakoAlberta

...unless it happens to be British. I've got a 450/400 that is a 450 necked to 400. (Also, the British use land diameter instead of bullet diameter, ie, a .303 British uses .311 bullets)

Thanks sako, Forgot about that....... i'm notvery familiar with the british rounds, but shoulda have known espcially with the .303! My Bad!

[SakoAlberta]

LOL, hardly meant to be 'correcting' as you summed it up very well. Only point was really that, with these names, there are a lot of exceptions!

[huntinstuff]

Kinda like "how many lead balls, the same diameter of the bore, make up one pound."..........12g 20g 10g 16g.

Yup, there were bureaucrats at that time too I reckon..............

[222rem]

Originally Posted by huntinstuff

Kinda like "how many lead balls, the same diameter of the bore, make up one pound."..........12g 20g 10g 16g.

Yup, there were bureaucrats at that time too I reckon..............

There is a good reason why lead balls were used to measure bore diameter.
For one thing it is used as a gauge... Therefore it is 12 gauge,16 gauge etc....

No....... Bureaucrats had nothing to do with how many balls made from one pound of lead make bore diameter .

[Dick284]

Originally Posted by 222rem

There is a good reason why lead balls were used to measure bore diameter.
For one thing it is used as a gauge... Therefore it is 12 gauge,16 gauge etc....

No....... Bureaucrats had nothing to do with how many balls made from one pound of lead make bore diameter .

With exception of the 410.
If the lead ball process was used it would be a 67gauge.
The 410 is the nominal bore diameter. Proper name is the .410 bore shotgun

[flatblack]

so a 22-250 is a .22 caliber? but its a good coyote gun, wouldnt recommend it for deer then? whats the 250 for?

[hunt_and_fish]

Originally Posted by flatblack

what is the "odd" or - for?

It is actually spelled "ought" or sometimes "aught" and it means zero. Instead of saying thirty O six or thirty zero six, people went with thirty ought six. Same as double-ought buck shot (00 Buck). People could call it zero zero buck but that wouldn't sound nearly as cool.

[Coreyh]

Originally Posted by flatblack

so a 22-250 is a .22 caliber? but its a good coyote gun, wouldnt recommend it for deer then? whats the 250 for?

It was originally a 250 Savage, that is now necked down to a .22 cal- Which makes it illegal for deer in Alberta.

[munyee4321]

Originally Posted by flatblack

so a 22-250 is a .22 caliber? but its a good coyote gun, wouldnt recommend it for deer then? whats the 250 for?

Correct the 22-250 is a .22 caliber cartridge and i certainly wouldn't recommended this cartridge for deer ( coyotes yes!), not only that it is Illegal in Alberta as the regulations state you must use a .23 caliber or bigger rifle to hunt big game.

The 250, means the 22-250 was based off the 250 savage casing

[flatblack]

Originally Posted by Coreyh

It was originally a 250 Savage, that is now necked down to a .22 cal- Which makes it illegal for deer in Alberta.

so the bullet would look like a 250 but with a 22 tip?

[gunsnreels]

eol

[munyee4321]

Originally Posted by flatblack

so the bullet would look like a 250 but with a 22 tip?

the neck of the casing would be necked down to fit the .22 bullet, otherwise yes it is a 250savage casing with a .22 cal head on it.

[flatblack]

ahhh now im starting to get the hang of things thanks all

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by flatblack

ahhh now im starting to get the hang of things thanks all

here's an example of a traditional blck powder cartridge.
50-140/3 1/4 - 50 caliber, 140 grains of black powder, 3 1/4" case

Cat

[Selkirk]

Originally Posted by flatblack

ahhh now im starting to get the hang of things thanks all

Here's another information source on rifle cartridges; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rifle_cartridges

[bobinthesky]

Originally Posted by munyee4321

Typically for rifle calibers the first two numbers stamped represents the caliber itself... so 25-06 is a .25 caliber cartridge. The any number after that is usually derived from the creator of the cartridge whether its the year the cartridge was made or if it was made from an other cartridge casing. Again the 25-06... the 06 means the this cartridge was made is based off the 30-06 cartridge.
7mm-08- 7mm caliber(.284) based of a .308 casing

Which brings us to European cartridges... the 7mm Mauser, or otherwise known as the 7x57, has a bullet diameter of 7 mm's and a case length of 57mm's. Same goes for the 6.5x55, the 8x57, and a multitude of other European cartridges!

[Good Ol' Boy]

I have an excellent reference book titled 'Cartridges of the World' by Frank C. Barnes. I believe it was reviewed in Alberta Outdoorsman Mag a few months (Years?) ago. If you really want to get an education, pickup a copy. i learned a ton from this book. it covers obsolete american, modern, wildcat, european, military, blackpowder, smokeless and proprietary cartridges.
I bought my copy at Cabelas, but a search of the internet should have a copy in your hands in a couple weeks.

[Dick284]

Unless the Canadian Firerams Safety Course has changed from when I took it

There is actually a section that explains a lot of what you asked here.

Just remember that a numeric designation does not mean the same caliber.

ie. 7mm, there are numerous 7mm's out there;
7mm-08, 7mm Mauser(7x57) 7mm Remington Express, 7x30Waters, 7mmTCU, 7x61 Sharp and Hart, 7x64, 7mm Remington Magnum, 7mm WSM, 7mm Weatherby Magnum, 7mm STW, 7mm Remington Ultra Magnum, 7mm Remington Short Action Ultra Magnum, 7mm IMSA, and likely a few I've even missed.

Also 303Savage does not interchange with a 303British.

300Savage is totally different than the 300WSM, 300Win. Mag, 300Weatherby mag, 300 RSAUM, 300RUM

Just to list a few.

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by Good Ol' Boy

I have an excellent reference book titled 'Cartridges of the World' by Frank C. Barnes. I believe it was reviewed in Alberta Outdoorsman Mag a few months (Years?) ago. If you really want to get an education, pickup a copy. i learned a ton from this book. it covers obsolete american, modern, wildcat, european, military, blackpowder, smokeless and proprietary cartridges.
I bought my copy at Cabelas, but a search of the internet should have a copy in your hands in a couple weeks.

"cartridges of the World" has gone through several editions since frank barnes first brought it out.\
i have noticed in several that some wildcats are in , and not in other editions.

But I agree, a real " okay, now you can shut up, here it is" as far as thw final and correct answer goes!
Cat

[new albertan]

So a 303 british is measured to bottom of rifling 303 savage to the top?

[CoyoteChallenger]

Originally Posted by new albertan

So a 303 british is measured to bottom of rifling 303 savage to the top?

That is correct!

[SakoAlberta]

Originally Posted by new albertan

So a 303 british is measured to bottom of rifling 303 savage to the top?

Most British cartridges are 'land measurements'. In other words, they take a larger bullet diameter than the name. ie, .303 Brit takes a .311 , .404 Jeff takes a .411, .275 Rigby takes a .284, etc.

[catnthehat]

After all this stuff and info, you get deviations like the 256 Newton, which is NOT a 257 bullet, but a 2.64!!
Cat

[SakoAlberta]

...or even that the plain ol' .30/06, .300 mags(including the British H&H), .30/30, and .308 Win all take .308 bullets, not .30!!