300 Win Mag vs 338 Win Mag

[bcpappy]

I have a 270 win in a kimber classic select, I have taken a couple of bucks and a nice 6x6 elk with it using 140 accubonds. The more advanced bullets of today make a lot of smaller calibers acceptable for elk and moose. Not that a 270 ever had a problem without the advanced bullets but they sure boost the performance. I have a 338 win mag in a kimber Montana that has been my number one gun for quite a few years now, it has put more meat in my freezer than any other gun I have owned. I skipped the 300 wind bag as every puffy chest popping range junkie has one and went to the 338. I originally wanted it for the grizzly limited entry hunts in b.c. but I like the caliber so much I started using it all the time. A 270 win and a 338 win mag is a great combo.

[700-223]

Originally Posted by bcpappy

A 270 win and a 338 win mag is a great combo.

Cant argue with you there (and I don't have either...)

[Ossie]

i'm from the Chuck Hawks school. If you want to have only 2 large caliber rifles go with a 30 06 and a .338. Virtually all of your bases are covered for North American big game.

[albertan]

Stepping up from a 270 win to a 338 win is a big step up. Many riflescopes will not take full power loads from a 338 win for very long. Some of the riflescopes that will not stand up include some very expensive European makes, and some well regarded domestic models. A hard kicking rifle needs to fit you and needs a good recoil pad. A rifle chambered in .338 Winchester magnum may even need a trip to a gunsmith to have glass bedding done and a cross bolt or two installed to prevent splitting of the wooden stock. Relieving of the area of the action behind the rear tang and the trigger guard will also prevent stock splitting. A riflescope with adequate eye relief is also a must. Simple things such as shooting rests suddenly come to the fore. When I first fired my 338 win, my suede shooting bags both were torn apart. I only use full leather units now.

It is the bullet that does the job. Many premium bullets do not expand on deer, but do well on elk and moose. Many ballistically efficient bullets are good for nothing more than punching paper. Having two rifles is handy in this regard. One rifle is loaded and sighted in for deer sized game, while the other is loaded for heavier game. This scenario could include two rifles of the same caliber.

Having hunted now for a very long time, I can say that there is a difference when game is hit properly with a 250 grain bullet out of a 338 Winchester, and when the same hit is done with a 270, or even a larger 30 caliber. The 338's downfalls are that they kick hard enough that many folks do not want to put the time in to master the rifle. They are also more expensive to shoot than common 270, 7mm, and 30 calibers. They are also not as flat shooting as 270,s and 300 magnums. Yes, 200 grain accubonds in the 338 loads (handloads, I don't trust factory ballistics)can be considered flat shooting, but 130 grain accubonds in the 270, and 180 grain accubonds in the 300 win are flatter yet. It was full power 250 grain loads that made the reputation of the 338 Winchester magnum. With today's controlled expansion bullets, like 210 Barnes, or 225 grain Noslers, you do get a bump in speed and a flatter trajectory, but bone smashing power comes from bullet weight. You don't see light weight super premium bullets in 500 Nitro Express do you?

Just my .02$

[tenda]

I have a .300 win mag and I love it. And like you the next smallest caliber I have is a .270. The .300 will shoot quite a bit flatter than the .338. When you compare load data and factory ammo for both you see that they are actually about the same as far as kinetic energy goes, despite the .338s larger bullet. The .300 win mag case holds a bit more powder as the shoulder is pushed forward more. Also an important consideration is that .300 win mag ammo is quite a bit cheaper than .338. I give the .300 win mag my vote

[bigbaddad]

Originally Posted by Fur

Much meat damage down stream from the actual impact zone/hemorrhage areas?

I shoot a 300 wsm and really enjoy it. As someone else said go as big as you can handle, you can always dial down your loads. I have yet to hear someone say, "I wish I had less gun".

Not to bad outside of the area of impact.. As much as can be expected when tagged with 2 tons of impact energy...

Sent from my SM-G900W8 using Tapatalk

[Andrzej]

Originally Posted by Ossie

i'm from the Chuck Hawks school. If you want to have only 2 large caliber rifles go with a 30 06 and a .338. Virtually all of your bases are covered for North American big game.

I personally agree, but I have 300 Win Mag as three large calibers rifles.

"It was full power 250 grain loads that made the reputation of the 338 Winchester magnum. With today's controlled expansion bullets, like 210 Barnes, or 225 grain Noslers, you do get a bump in speed and a flatter trajectory, but bone smashing power comes from bullet weight. You don't see light weight super premium bullets in 500 Nitro Express do you?"

IMO this above statement is false.
In any caliber Bullet construction and retained weight it is what has bone smashing property not initial bullet weight.
In 338 300 gr cup and core bullet with 60 % weight retention will be poorer choice than Barnes TTSX in 225 gr with 98% retention.
300 x60% = 180gr or 250 gr 60%= 150 gr.
225 x 98%= 220.5 gr. That is beauty of monolithic technology.

[albertan]

My point about bullet weight being required for bone smashing power still stands. Jim Carmichel had a chapter in his excellent "Book Of The Rifle" on bullet momentum and firearms power. Mr. Carmichel is an engineer. He wrote that if a .177 caliber BB could travel at 17,000 fps, it would possess the same kinetic energy as a 180 grain bullet moving at 2700 fps, 30-06 velocity; but not 30-06 hitting power. He also wrote about how a 120 grain projectile moved out of 25-06 could not be counted on to topple the ram at 500 (metres or yards, I can't remember), but a 405 grain cast bullet moving at 1100-1200 fps muzzle velocity out a black powder fueled 45\70 could. Yet the kinetic energy of the 25-06 dwarfs that of the old 45\70 at all ranges.I think I've made my point about weight and momentum.

I have hunted a lot of very large and some very dangerous game. My Brown bear was shot at 20 feet coming straight at me. The 300 grain .375" projectile passed through 4-5 feet of bear before exiting. Truthfully, a 30-06 loaded with a 200 grain Nosler Partition will work on the biggest bears. If you were in a war with such a beast a 500 Nitro double might seem inadequate; whether loaded with Woodleigh expanding bullets or Barnes Triple Shocks.

My point earlier is that lightweight bullets did not make the reputation of the .338 Winchester magnum. There are very few rounds that will out-penetrate a 250 grain bullet out of a .338. With its sectional density of .313, even the great .375 H&H with 300 grain bullets will not penetrate as well as the .338. I own two .375 H&H's so I am not picking one caliber over another. Craig Boddington has stated this on more than one occasion as well. He, too, is a believer in heavier bullets having more punch than faster, lighter bullets.

If finances permit, own both the 300 and 338 Winchester magnums. That will please the Liberals.

[Andrzej]

albertan

If you have heavy Bullet of fragile construction your calculated momentum comes to ZERO as bullet disintegrates on entry...
Some call this TERMINAL MOMENTUM...if your lighter bullet holds together due to construction it will have more Terminal Momentum than heavy one.
If you are open minded try this
http://www.gsgroup.co.za/articlemomentum.html

Andrew

[albertan]

On an eland or a giant moose bullet integrity is paramount. On two of Africa's big 5, gimme a cheap Hornady round nose bullet. I am referring to lions and leopard. Of the two, I consider the leopard the most dangerous. In fact. I consider the leopard the most dangerous of the big 5 simply because if you blow it everyone is going to be intimate with chui. Every second you are intimate with chui is, on average, one hundred stitches. The leopard is often shot with a .375 or .416 with A-Frame or Triple Shock bullets meant for a Cape buffalo. Ditto the lion. A 300 grain Hornady Interlock out of a .375 for the lion, and a 165 cup and core bullet out of a 30-06 for the leopard. The taxidermist can patch them up. And since the shot will be much less than 100 paces a round nosed bullet is the preferred choice of projectile as it imparts a hurt quicker than a super spitzer which starts later.

Neither of these cats is huge, like an eland. Neither has large bones or thick hides, like a rhino or Cape buffalo. But both of these cats are highly susceptible to the shock that occurs when a soft bullet hits at a high rate of speed, over 2500 fps impact velocity.

Horses for courses.