So, I stick up for the RCMP as much as possible,

[Ken07AOVette]

But it is getting more difficult.
The post office was broken into again last night. They didn't even call the RCMP. The last time they didn't take prints, did nothing. No point in calling again. That's 4.

Plus, a farmer was driving to his home and noticed a strange vehicle where it should not be. Turned out it was a stolen vehicle, they loaded up a flat deck and were robbing the place. The farmer called his son, who got a friend and went to the gate. They called the Police, and locked the gate.
The stolen vehicle rammed the gate and fled the scene. The son followed them for close to an hour, even stopping for a moment when the female passenger jumped out with a knife and slashed the son's tire. When they drove into a field the RCMP showed up. The son pointed them out, said yes 100% that's them. Positive identification.
The Officer said 'well it's not an indictable offense' and drove away.
The farmer spent resources, kept in contact with the RCMP, and lost a tire only to have absolutely nothing happen, even though they were right in front of them, caught red handed.
I have a call in to the staff sargeant, am going to ask them if this was the officer's call, the sargeants' call, if they are being told to leave the little fish for the insurance companies by K division head, or if the government is calling the shots. (yes I know all should be capitalized, I am annoyed)
I expect to have ~2% of my questions answered.
A dozen of us want to set up our own camera's with wifi so we get notification when the Post Office is broken into again, at which time we will block all windows and doors holding them for the Police to get there.
We are fully willing to put ourselves in harm's way to catch these bastards.
Is there any point?
Will we be held for unlawful confinement?
I am not saying we are going to be carrying baseball bats and pick axe handles, but we will not going to be carrying firearms either.
Can we place them under citizen's arrest and handcuff them until Police arrive?

We are going to lose our post office, and that is important to us.

I really want to hear from the LEO's on the forum.

I really don't want to hear the worn out bs about 'if you could legally carry handguns' please keep that crap to the other 9000 threads.

I also spoke to my insurance company. I asked 'if I ram a vehicle to catch criminals what happens'. The answer was 'collision will cover your vehicle and fix it, but it will count as a claim against you. If they are driving YOUR vehicle and ram you, both will be fixed, no claim against you, and the insurance company applies to the RCMP 'victim fund'. If you ram your own vehicle, it is a claim both get fixed'.
If you ram a non insured or stolen vehicle that is committing a crime your vehicle will be fixed, but claim listed against you.
She said also the very best thing you can do is have a dash camera rolling. Video proof wins every claim.
All my vehicles have cameras.


I REALLY think only the HAVE's are being 'targeted' by the RCMP.

[whiteout]

Pretty sure that if you witness them commit the offense, you can use reasonable force to restrain them. Provided you turn them over to law enforcement at the earliest possible time. IIRC, it's Section 494 of the CCoC

I'm pretty sure the cops will show up damn fast if you tell them you've placed someone under citizens arrest.

[Ken07AOVette]

I'm worried about them setting the post office on fire to get out. Would Canada Post sue us? Never know what goes through the grey matter in a meth head.

[Talking moose]

The guy following the thief messed up by not saying " I think I saw a gun". Would of got the whole department out there.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by Ken07AOVette

But it is getting more difficult.
The post office was broken into again last night. They didn't even call the RCMP. The last time they didn't take prints, did nothing. No point in calling again. That's 4.

Plus, a farmer was driving to his home and noticed a strange vehicle where it should not be. Turned out it was a stolen vehicle, they loaded up a flat deck and were robbing the place. The farmer called his son, who got a friend and went to the gate. They called the Police, and locked the gate.
The stolen vehicle rammed the gate and fled the scene. The son followed them for close to an hour, even stopping for a moment when the female passenger jumped out with a knife and slashed the son's tire. When they drove into a field the RCMP showed up. The son pointed them out, said yes 100% that's them. Positive identification.
The Officer said 'well it's not an indictable offense' and drove away.
The farmer spent resources, kept in contact with the RCMP, and lost a tire only to have absolutely nothing happen, even though they were right in front of them, caught red handed.
I have a call in to the staff sargeant, am going to ask them if this was the officer's call, the sargeants' call, if they are being told to leave the little fish for the insurance companies by K division head, or if the government is calling the shots. (yes I know all should be capitalized, I am annoyed)
I expect to have ~2% of my questions answered.
A dozen of us want to set up our own camera's with wifi so we get notification when the Post Office is broken into again, at which time we will block all windows and doors holding them for the Police to get there.
We are fully willing to put ourselves in harm's way to catch these bastards.
Is there any point?
Will we be held for unlawful confinement?
I am not saying we are going to be carrying baseball bats and pick axe handles, but we will not going to be carrying firearms either.
Can we place them under citizen's arrest and handcuff them until Police arrive?

We are going to lose our post office, and that is important to us.

I really want to hear from the LEO's on the forum.

I really don't want to hear the worn out bs about 'if you could legally carry handguns' please keep that crap to the other 9000 threads.

I also spoke to my insurance company. I asked 'if I ram a vehicle to catch criminals what happens'. The answer was 'collision will cover your vehicle and fix it, but it will count as a claim against you. If they are driving YOUR vehicle and ram you, both will be fixed, no claim against you, and the insurance company applies to the RCMP 'victim fund'. If you ram your own vehicle, it is a claim both get fixed'.
If you ram a non insured or stolen vehicle that is committing a crime your vehicle will be fixed, but claim listed against you.
She said also the very best thing you can do is have a dash camera rolling. Video proof wins every claim.
All my vehicles have cameras.


I REALLY think only the HAVE's are being 'targeted' by the RCMP.

So what were they doing when the female jumped out of the vehicle and slashed the tire? I can't imagine just sitting there watching her slash the tire. Even backing up would have prevented that from happening. And I am still trying to figure out how armed robbery and attacking the vehicle with a weapon are not serious enough to justify arresting them.

[Ken07AOVette]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

So what were they doing when the female jumped out of the vehicle and slashed the tire? I can't imagine just sitting there watching her slash the tire. Even backing up would have prevented that from happening. And I am still trying to figure out how armed robbery and attacking the vehicle with a weapon are not serious enough to justify arresting them.

They sat there. Maybe they didn't see the knife until she walked up and popped the tire. I would have likely ran her over. Had to be there I guess.
I don't know if it was armed robbery.
Me either.

[Duramaximos]

Originally Posted by Talking moose

The guy following the thief messed up by not saying " I think I saw a gun". Would of got the whole department out there.

X2

[liar]

i am not sure how it would pan out if you barricade them in the post office ,. i remember about five or six years ago a convenience store owner recognized a chronic shop lifter . him and another ( his son maybe ) locked the shop lifter in a vehicle , i dont remember how exactly but i remember that the shop owner and accomplice were charged and it was reported that the thief was offered a reduced sentence or plea bargain for testifying against the shop owner . i believe this was in toronto .
there may of been more to the story that was not reported . if i were you , i would get advice about this from another source , possibly the rcmp and get it in an email or letter . this forum is for entertainment only . its very easy to spout off " this is what you should do " when the advice is coming from some one with a computer in their mom's basement .

be careful .

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by Ken07AOVette

They sat there. Maybe they didn't see the knife until she walked up and popped the tire. I would have likely ran her over. Had to be there I guess.
I don't know if it was armed robbery.
Me either.

I would have likely have panicked and hit the wrong pedal and run her over by accident.

Unless she took possession of the knife after the vehicle was stolen, I would certainly suspect armed robbery. In any case, being in a stolen vehicle, that just damaged a gate, and then coming at a vehicle with people in it with a knife should be enough to arrest them.

[CritterCommander]

The RCMP is becoming more and more disconnected from citizens and communities every day that goes by. When I was a young lad they were Hockey and Ball coaches and everyone in the community knew and respected them. That unfortunately has gone the way of the Doh-Doh bird. Nowadays the RC's are more or less just more union workers putting in time and collecting quota to satisfy performance targets and nothing more. In my mind the honor of the RCMP went down the drain long ago, not exactly sure why, but what I understand is that when you isolate yourself personally from the community any opportunity to make LIFE connections with people and influence decisions is gone, much like the respect they used to have at large across the land.

[Blastoff]

Originally Posted by Talking moose

The guy following the thief messed up by not saying " I think I saw a gun". Would of got the whole department out there.

Not a good idea, the rc's would say oh no we are another call be there in an hour because they under armed for the se crooks and they have bigger guns.

[Ken07AOVette]

I am REALLY hoping some LEO's answer the thread.

[Talking moose]

Originally Posted by Blastoff

Not a good idea, the rc's would say oh no we are another call be there in an hour because they under armed for the se crooks and they have bigger guns.

Oh you've tried it? Care to share your experience?

[silverdoctor]

People are slowly starting to figure it out. If it's not about public safety, if there's no money in it or easy glory - they don't seem to be interested. File a report online.


If you catch them in the act, make a citizens arrest - but even that today would be sketchy. You have to be careful - you make an arrest and the cops aren't interested, they may take an interest in you.

Learn the laws and read up on case law if you're planning on taking matters into your own hands.

[Ken07AOVette]

It would appear they have changed, I was told many times years ago when riding with the Police that citizens do have the ability to arrest, providing they are not hurt beyond restraint and required means.

In this litigious society, who knows?

Again, why I am hoping some LEO's will chime in.

[silverdoctor]

Originally Posted by Ken07AOVette

It would appear they have changed, I was told many times years ago when riding with the Police that citizens do have the ability to arrest, providing they are not hurt beyond restraint and required means.

In this litigious society, who knows?

Again, why I am hoping some LEO's will chime in.

Probably better off talking to a lawyer rather than LEO. All police seem to have different opinion and judgement. What one cop tells you may not apply to another. What a cop in Edmonton tells you definitely won't apply to your locale.

David Chen case - he still ended up in court.
http://news.nationalpost.com/news/ca...to-take-effect

Judge's own words on the case...

“pitfall of taking the law into one’s hand. One can never predict the outcome.”

[brendan's dad]

Probably doing the right thing contacting the Sgt in charge to discuss your concerns. I am assuming you are talking about Paradise Valley, which means your RCMP detachment is Kitscoty? Tough when you live in an area with a minimum 30 minute response time even if the Member is suited up, sitting in his PC and ready to roll.

If people wonder why the RCMP tend to try and hide in their own communities when off duty, you only need to visit AO or social media and read a few RCMP themed threads. Actually most will now chose a commute vs living in the community they police. It is tough living in a fish bowl 24/7 and many of the good Member take undue criticism for the dishonorable behavior of other Members. There are still some small communities in Alberta where the PC is parked at the Member's home and citizens are welcome to knock on the door if they require police assistance, but it is becoming more and more rare.

[bobalong]

Rural RCMP response has become almost non-existent. If you live in a town with less than 1000 people they are completely useless. I am not sure what is involved, but small town Alberta would be much better served by a town "cop" which they used to have years ago. Anything is better than RCMP, I didn't think it was possible but over the past 2 years they have gotten worse......what a disgrace they have become.

[liar]

Originally Posted by ken07aovette

i am really hoping some leo's answer the thread.

leo ?

[Burglecut83]

Originally Posted by Talking moose

The guy following the thief messed up by not saying " I think I saw a gun". Would of got the whole department out there.

I have used this exact line before to get a response. It was untrue but i was basically going to have to shoot the persons or stab them there were 4 guys all bigger than me. Cops were there in less than 5 minutes in edmonton

[Ken07AOVette]

Originally Posted by liar

leo ?

Law Enforcement Officer

Cop

Sheriff

Peace or Police Officer

[Ken07AOVette]

Originally Posted by silverdoctor

Probably better off talking to a lawyer rather than LEO. All police seem to have different opinion and judgement. What one cop tells you may not apply to another. What a cop in Edmonton tells you definitely won't apply to your locale.

David Chen case - he still ended up in court.
http://news.nationalpost.com/news/ca...to-take-effect

Judge's own words on the case...

I have more trust in the Criminals than the Lawyers. Who in their right mind could defend someone guilty? At least when a criminal has his hand in your pocket you know when your pocket is empty he will stop.

[barsik]

I think part of the problem is the quality of the recruits that sign up. when I was growing up, most of the RCMP officers came off the farm or small towns. they knew what was up and knew the difference between people blowing off a bit of pressure and being dangerous and out of line. as someone above posted, we respected them, and to be fair, a lot of the officers still have that good attitude. the problem is the ones that don't give a crap are growing in number. bring back the attitude of the old days.

[birdee]

going through the same thing now had something stolen located it myself .edmonton police sent it to the rcmp were i found it, sent pictures of item posted on line . the rcmp told me can't do anything can you give me a name to search? so again i go on the hunt doing there job

[Ken07AOVette]

We can NOT enact a Citizen's Arrest in this case. (see Bolded Italic below)
-you must be the property owner, in lawful possession of the property, or have authorization of the property owner. I do not imagine Canada Post will be signing an Indemnity Waiver for citizens to protect their location(s).

No point in getting video, the RCMP don't seem to want to see it. I am not going to risk anything if there is no authorization or even implied consent from Canada Post, and even if the Employee here says it is fine, Canada Post would likely not back her.

http://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/rp-pr/o...tre/wyntk.html

What You Need to Know About Making a Citizen's Arrest
Whenever possible, you should report wrongdoing to the police instead of taking action on your own. Police officers are equipped with the proper intervention tools and trained to deal with incidents which may escalate to become violent.

Important Considerations
Making a citizen's arrest without carefully considering the risk factors may have serious unintended consequences for you and others involved. In most cases, an arrest consists of either actually seizing or touching a person's body in an effort to detain them.

Before deciding whether to make a citizen's arrest, you should be aware of the Citizen's Arrest Laws and consider the following:

Is it feasible for a peace officer to intervene? If so, report the crime to the police instead of taking action on your own.
Your personal safety and that of others could be compromised by attempting an arrest. Relevant considerations would include whether the suspect is alone and whether they possess a weapon.
Will you be able to turn over the suspect to the police without delay once an arrest is made?
Do you have a reasonable belief regarding the suspect's criminal conduct?
Making a Citizen's Arrest
If you do decide to make a citizen's arrest, you should:

Tell the suspect plainly that you are making a citizen's arrest and that you are holding him or her until police arrive.
Call the police.
Ask explicitly for his or her cooperation until police arrive.
Avoid using force, if at all possible, and use it to the minimum possible otherwise.
Do not question or search the suspect or his or her possessions. Your purpose is only to temporarily detain him or her until police arrive.
When police arrive, state the plain facts of what happened.
Citizen's Arrest Laws
In most cases, you must find a person either in the act of committing a crime, or escaping from and freshly pursued by persons who have lawful authority to arrest that person, in order to lawfully make a citizen's arrest. In particular, if you are arresting a person for an indictable offence, which is the most serious type of offence and includes violent offences, you can only make the arrest at the time you witness the person committing the offence. It is against the law to arrest a person after any lapse in time for having committed an indictable offence, unless it is relation to your property.

In special circumstances of any type of criminal offence that is committed on or in relation to your property, you may either:

arrest a person you find in the act of committing a crime; or
arrest a person within a reasonable period of time after having found that person committing a crime.
To be eligible to make a citizen's arrest for a crime on or in relation to property, you must be one of the following:

the owner of the property;
in lawful possession of the property; or
have been authorized by the owner or the person in lawful possession of the property.
The law allows you to use as much force as is necessary for the purpose of making a citizen's arrest, as long as you are acting on reasonable grounds. However, any force you use must be tailored to the circumstances, and you are criminally responsible for any excess force you use. In addition to the potential for a criminal prosecution, you may also face a civil lawsuit in relation to your conduct and any injury you cause.

The law requires that when making a citizen's arrest, the arrested individual must be delivered to a police officer without delay. If you make a citizen's arrest and do not call the police as soon as possible, the arrest might be ruled illegal, and you could face civil or criminal consequences.

Correctly identifying a suspect
In the special circumstances of making an arrest "within a reasonable time after" observing an offence (as opposed to while the offence is in progress), you are strongly urged to exercise additional care in confirming the identity of the suspect.

It is always extremely important to correctly identify a suspect and their criminal involvement. If you make a citizen's arrest at the very time a person is found committing a crime, the correct identification of the suspect will not likely be called into question.

However, if you make an arrest "within a reasonable time after" observing the offence, the accuracy of the identification of the suspect may be called into question.

You need to be conscious of the fact that situational factors such as the presence of a weapon, the number of individuals involved, environmental factors and heightened stress levels can negatively affect your recollection of a past incident and your ability to correctly identify a person you have previously seen committing an offence. Even if you genuinely believe that you have correctly identified the suspect after the crime was observed, the risk of mistaken identity is real, and must not be minimized.

If the person you attempt to arrest is the wrong person, the situation is potentially very dangerous. The person being arrested will not understand why they are being detained and may not submit to the arrest. In these circumstances, there is a real risk that if you arrest the wrong person, you could provoke a violent confrontation, and risk injury or death.

Warning
A citizen's arrest is a very serious and potentially dangerous undertaking. Unlike a police officer, private citizens are neither tasked with the duty to preserve and maintain public peace, nor properly trained to apprehend suspected criminals. Exercise extreme caution when attempting to make a citizen's arrest.

[NCC]

What gets me is that the RCMP won't deal with the cracked out repeat offending POS's but they find time to go after the low hanging fruit that has no real bearing on public safety. They know that most working stiffs will just pay the fine and move on.

That being said, I wouldn't be too crazy about attempting to arrest a car load of methheads when I know there is no back up around. I also think that a large part of the problem with our RCMP is that Liberal hug a thug leadership that mandates how the RCMP operate. And they get videoed by some clown with a cellphone every time they make an arrest; that alone would make me Turn in my badge.

[skidderman]

Is it possible the RCMP have a good reason? i.e. Whenever they do press charges the perps get off anyway. I wonder if it isn't the courts that has discouraged them to the point of not caring.

[Ken07AOVette]

Originally Posted by skidderman

Is it possible the RCMP have a good reason? i.e. Whenever they do press charges the perps get off anyway. I wonder if it isn't the courts that has discouraged them to the point of not caring.

I really want the Staff Sargeant to call me, for an answer to some of these questions. The reality is though if he does call, I know there will be answers to our questions.

Huntnstuff please run for PM.

[kingrat]

Originally Posted by Talking moose

The guy following the thief messed up by not saying " I think I saw a gun". Would of got the whole department out there.

Best advice right there,

[Ken07AOVette]

Originally Posted by kingrat

Best advice right there,

trouble is, they tape the calls, they know your # blocked or not, and filing a false claim or whatever they would call it may end up chewing your derriere.