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  #241  
Old 04-16-2018, 05:42 PM
Salavee Salavee is offline
 
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Following is another tidbit that has some real merit .. authored by a very level headed guy.

http://www.outdoorcanada.ca/Why_its_...ossbow_hunting
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  #242  
Old 04-16-2018, 05:43 PM
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Lol...you give yourself way too much credit. I know how to use the “search” function...and I whole heartedly agree with the “old” you or would that be the “young” you?

Either way...I agree with what you stated back when this vote on crossbows was a hot topic, which Salavee thinks didn’t happen

LC
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  #243  
Old 04-16-2018, 05:48 PM
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Here is an equally intelligent guy who recognizes the distinct advantages and difference to crossbows...doesn’t deny they are in fact different.

http://www.outdoorcanada.ca/5_Huge_Crossbow_Advantages

LC
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  #244  
Old 04-16-2018, 05:50 PM
Deezel Deezel is offline
 
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I'm not a bowhunter.
I did vote on the crossbow being made legal in archery season.
I voted no and would do so again because one has to look at the full impact of it, not just the want.
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  #245  
Old 04-16-2018, 06:00 PM
Salavee Salavee is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck View Post
Were you around when every single hunter endorsed WIN card holder with a valid email address received a survey about crossbow inclusion?...that was the vote.

Go “all in” all you want...if you are claiming that didn’t happen, you would be broke.

LC

I've been around Alberta for many decades and have held a valid e-mail address since they were first available and have no recollection of a poll ... not vote, like that ever taking place. That doesn't mean it didn't occur but I would sure like to see some type of validation. Nothing on the Net that I can find.
You missed it as well ??? .. hard to imagine.
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  #246  
Old 04-16-2018, 06:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Salavee View Post
I've been around Alberta for many decades and have held a valid e-mail address since they were first available and have no recollection of a poll ... not vote, like that ever taking place. That doesn't mean it didn't occur but I would sure like to see some type of validation. Nothing on the Net that I can find.
You missed it as well ??? .. hard to imagine.
Lol...it happened use the “search” function here...you can learn a lot of things. I believe it was in 2010...not sure, I was a new member here and not a member of the ABA back then.

LC
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  #247  
Old 04-16-2018, 06:08 PM
Deezel Deezel is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Salavee View Post
I've been around Alberta for many decades and have held a valid e-mail address since they were first available and have no recollection of a poll ... not vote, like that ever taking place. That doesn't mean it didn't occur but I would sure like to see some type of validation. Nothing on the Net that I can find.
You missed it as well ??? .. hard to imagine.
This "poll" did happen. I had my say in it as did numerous other people I know.
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  #248  
Old 04-16-2018, 06:32 PM
Salavee Salavee is offline
 
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This "poll" did happen. I had my say in it as did numerous other people I know.
OK .. all good. I don't have a problem accepting that a poll took place. Polls from decades ago do not address the issues we have today in any way, shape or form .. Currently, we have more than 150,000+ additional hunters etc. etc., user specific hunting zones, user specific seasons and so on. Like Parliamentary elections held years ago, old polls mean little to nothing in the current environment. It's here and now we a trying to deal with, obviously to no avail within this venue.

That poll was a good idea Maybe time for another one.
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  #249  
Old 04-16-2018, 06:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck View Post
Nope haven’t lost touch. There is “stages of hunting” proven time and again.

http://www.huntfairchase.com/five-stages-of-the-hunter/

I use only my bow during general season, why? Because I like the challenge and the experience and the means...the end “goal” doesn’t have to occur as quickly as possible.

Just curious if those so passionate about the crossbow are using them when they can...vs being upset about when they can’t. If hunting is only about putting food on the table for you, you are missing out on a lot.

So if I hear you correctly the crossbow for you isn’t about the means...but the ends to the means? It’s just about achieving the goal as fast as possible? Do you bowhunt currently, can you pull 40lbs?

LC


So your a purist, traditional?
How long have you been a purist, longbow, recurve?
After that it's just easy, trust me I am not a purist, got cams on my bow etc
Enjoy the hunt and challenge.
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  #250  
Old 04-16-2018, 06:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck View Post
Were you around when every single hunter endorsed WIN card holder with a valid email address received a survey about crossbow inclusion?...that was the vote.

Go “all in” all you want...if you are claiming that didn’t happen, you would be broke.

LC
Should maybe implement that again, a vote in the 1800's needs to be revisited, keep up with the times...
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  #251  
Old 04-16-2018, 06:52 PM
Salavee Salavee is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck View Post
Lol...it happened use the “search” function here...you can learn a lot of things. I believe it was in 2010...not sure, I was a new member here and not a member of the ABA back then.

LC
If this poll, or whatever it was, took place in 2010, I definitely missed it. That year is about the time that the ABA blew up the Parkland County meeting I referred to earlier. I can see a likely connection to the "poll" if that is the case.
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  #252  
Old 04-16-2018, 06:53 PM
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Originally Posted by 58thecat View Post
So your a purist, traditional?
How long have you been a purist, longbow, recurve?
After that it's just easy, trust me I am not a purist, got cams on my bow etc
Enjoy the hunt and challenge.
Define purist...

I shoot my bow nearly everyday all year round. Which bow I shoot varies on the season, indoor target/3d/field/hunting. I compete locally, provincially, nationally and rarely internationally...because I enjoy the sport, the culture, the community, and the people. I help out locally at an archery shop working on the odd bow and helping answer questions. I help organize a shoot or two a year. I choose to hunt with a bow all season, because I enjoy the up close and personal aspect and the end game doesn’t NEED to happen. I am quite selective when it comes to some species and others fill my freezer (partially because of my wife’s taste in wild game).

If that makes me a purist...go ahead and place that label on me, I have been called worse. I wouldn’t call myself that, I would just say I have a passion for archery.

LC
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  #253  
Old 04-16-2018, 06:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Salavee View Post
If this poll, or whatever it was, took place in 2010, I definitely missed it. That year is about the time that the ABA blew up the Parkland County meeting I referred to earlier. I can see a likely connection to the "poll" if that is the case.
Wow...hold a grudge much? Always the fault of the ABA...lol.

LC
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  #254  
Old 04-16-2018, 07:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck View Post
Define purist...

I shoot my bow nearly everyday all year round. Which bow I shoot varies on the season, indoor target/3d/field/hunting. I compete locally, provincially, nationally and rarely internationally...because I enjoy the sport, the culture, the community, and the people. I help out locally at an archery shop working on the odd bow and helping answer questions. I help organize a shoot or two a year. I choose to hunt with a bow all season, because I enjoy the up close and personal aspect and the end game doesn’t NEED to happen. I am quite selective when it comes to some species and others fill my freezer (partially because of my wife’s taste in wild game).

If that makes me a purist...go ahead and place that label on me, I have been called worse. I wouldn’t call myself that, I would just say I have a passion for archery.

LC
There probably isn't a crossbow shooter alive who could outshoot you, offhand. I'd pit you and your compound against any crossbow shooter and you would prove more accurate, at any distance. I'm not giving you any excess credit, it's just a case that a competent compound shooter will always best a competent crossbow shooter.

I'm competent at both and I always beat myself with a compound
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  #255  
Old 04-16-2018, 07:15 PM
Don_Parsons Don_Parsons is offline
 
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A very interesting thread indeed.

Congratulations on the OP for joining the ABA, you'll meet some Intresting folks for sure.

I don't shoot or own a x-bow yet.

I've been working up my limited skills on Trad archery so I can continue my archery thing.
If someone wants to use their compound unit, then more power to the person,,, same for the long bow.

Even if the hunting laws changed in favour of x-bow in archery season, then more power to the system.

I could care less if someone chooses what ever to harvest with, just my take on the way I feel I guess.

I did 14+ years of compound bows all season long, even threw rifle season,,, sometimes the harvest worked, many times it didn't.

Harvesting to me is just being out there, with or without success.

If a vote was open today on allowing a x-bow into the mix, I'd say sure.

Times are changing, I don't see an advantage or disadvantage since Harvesting game still takes time.

One would think that with aging archers that x-bow would keep the activities going, I know that I will fit that category in a few years.

My old time friend is doing the x-bow this year with his permit. He really enjoys getting out there,,, that's what really counts.

Don
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  #256  
Old 04-16-2018, 07:24 PM
Salavee Salavee is offline
 
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Wow...hold a grudge much? Always the fault of the ABA...lol.

LC
Not a Grudge .. just a memory.

I tried the on-board search engine and didn't find a thing referring to a Provincial Crossbow poll .I did however find an A/O poll regarding x-Bow use that indicated 74% in favor of the X-Bow. It wont paste on here but that really doesn't matter at this point.

I really think we are ready for another Provincial poll on the subject.
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  #257  
Old 04-16-2018, 07:37 PM
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Not a Grudge .. just a memory.

I tried the on-board search engine and didn't find a thing referring to a Provincial Crossbow poll .I did however find an A/O poll regarding x-Bow use that indicated 74% in favor of the X-Bow. It wont paste on here but that really doesn't matter at this point.

I really think we are ready for another Provincial poll on the subject.
Yah....Quebec is due for another referendum too

Not sure what you found, the one I saw was 52% no, 43% yes.

LC
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  #258  
Old 04-16-2018, 07:59 PM
Salavee Salavee is offline
 
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Yah....Quebec is due for another referendum too

LC
Quebec ? ..That's not a bad idea ,is it?

Anyway, I read the article you linked regarding Crossbows. If it is all deemed to be true, then the preferable, most efficient tackle from both the User and Game/Quarry perspective would obviously be the Crossbow. Accuracy, ease of use, proficiency lethality etc all lead to less wounding, more efficient kills, less required technical skill, less required practice time and so on. All in all, the X-bow has everything we are looking for in the area of user friendly operation and Game harvesting efficiency. As we have been told, that beats the verticle bow in just about every important category . What's not to like about them ?
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  #259  
Old 04-16-2018, 08:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck View Post
Were you around when every single hunter endorsed WIN card holder with a valid email address received a survey about crossbow inclusion?...that was the vote.

Go “all in” all you want...if you are claiming that didn’t happen, you would be broke.

LC
I vaguely remember that. I believe that it was a survey on the RELM website that no one knew anything about but the ABA rallied the membership to vote against crossbows. Are you trying to twist things to make it sound like all hunters were emailed the survey?

How is it that the AFGA submitted a resolution to include crossbows in the archery season if the majority of hunters oppose it?
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  #260  
Old 04-16-2018, 08:16 PM
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I vaguely remember that. I believe that it was a survey on the RELM website that no one knew anything about but the ABA rallied the membership to vote against crossbows. Are you trying to twist things to make it sound like all hunters were emailed the survey?

How is it that the AFGA submitted a resolution to include crossbows in the archery season if the majority of hunters oppose it?
Lol, Dave follow along...not twisting anything I am providing FACT. Alberta RELM, you may have heard of it...had a survey to all users.

Rally troops? Certain Alberta Outdoors writers were sure trying to rally troops to vote for it. A search here show that!

YES all Alberta RELM users were sent the survey my friend....nothing made up about that!

You clearly do not know the process for submitting resolutions...a user group can submit nearly any resolution they want, it’s goes up for review...and 90% or more are squashed.

If you shared you passion for these topics as an active member of an organization, you might already know this.

If the ABA had even half the power you guys want to credit them for wow! Would they get stuff done! LOL.

LC
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  #261  
Old 04-16-2018, 08:17 PM
Salavee Salavee is offline
 
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Uh Oh ... my "all-in" is looking better after all. lol
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  #262  
Old 04-16-2018, 08:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Salavee View Post
Quebec ? ..That's not a bad idea ,is it?

Anyway, I read the article you linked regarding Crossbows. If it is all deemed to be true, then the preferable, most efficient tackle from both the User and Game/Quarry perspective would obviously be the Crossbow. Accuracy, ease of use, proficiency lethality etc all lead to less wounding, more efficient kills, less required technical skill, less required practice time and so on. All in all, the X-bow has everything we are looking for in the area of user friendly operation and Game harvesting efficiency. As we have been told, that beats the verticle bow in just about every important category . What's not to like about them ?
Guns are the most efficient...you want a two week anything goes season and that’s it?

You don’t understand that tag allotments are based on harvest goals and harvest likeness percentages.

No point furthering this discussion if those basic concepts allude you.

Crossbow inclusion would lead to two years of crossbow glee followed by a lifetime of everything conceivable, other than perhaps bears and white tails, on full draw. Careful what you wish for!

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Uh Oh ... my "all-in" is looking better after all. lol
Respectfully how so? Because you never put a wager up in the first place? Because you were left holding a Doyle against a Royal Flush.

The survey was sent out to all RELM users....that’s a fact, taking Dave’s word that it wasn’t...well that’s not a bet I would make

It’s been fun fellas I am done...you old boys wear us young pups out .

LC
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  #263  
Old 04-16-2018, 08:33 PM
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YES all Alberta RELM users were sent the survey my friend....nothing made up about that!

You clearly do not know the process for submitting resolutions...a user group can submit nearly any resolution they want, it’s goes up for review...and 90% or more are squashed.

If you shared you passion for these topics as an active member of an organization, you might already know this.

LC
Yup, if you had a RELM account you may have been notified, I never was and I suspect many other hunters weren’t either. You stated, “Were you around when every single hunter endorsed WIN card holder with a valid email address received a survey about crossbow inclusion?...that was the vote.“ Now you are saying what?

I know enough about resolutions to know that the membership has to vote on them in order for them to proceed. If the majority of AFGA members opposed the resolution to include crossbows in the archery only season how do you explain the resolution being presented to AEP?
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  #264  
Old 04-16-2018, 08:33 PM
Salavee Salavee is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck View Post
Guns are the most efficient...you want a two week anything goes season and that’s it?

You don’t understand that tag allotments are based on harvest goals and harvest likeness percentages.

No point furthering this discussion if those basic concepts allude you.

Corssbow inclusion would lead to two years of crossbow glee followed by a lifetime of everything conceivable, other than perhaps bears and white tails, on full draw. Careful what you wish for!

LC
.. and you guys have just lowered the req'd minimum draw weight to 35# to encourage more "Archery" participation and more draws. Considering the statement you just made, that makes a S-load of sense, does'nt it ?
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Old 04-16-2018, 08:34 PM
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.. and you guys have just lowered the req'd minimum draw weight to 35# to encourage more "Archery" participation and more draws. Considering the statement you just made, that makes a S-load of sense, does'nt it ?
It’s a desperate attempt to stop the inclusion of crossbows.
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  #266  
Old 04-16-2018, 08:40 PM
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.. and you guys have just lowered the req'd minimum draw weight to 35# to encourage more "Archery" participation and more draws. Considering the statement you just made, that makes a S-load of sense, does'nt it ?
No “we” haven’t....follow the process lol. Did that resolution get adopted? Who are “you guys” lol. You don’t think a few Dads/Moms would like to take their younger Sons and Daughters out with them a bit early some time?

Yup it makes sense I would like to see more youth getting onto the sport.

LC
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  #267  
Old 04-16-2018, 08:52 PM
Salavee Salavee is offline
 
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No “we” haven’t....follow the process lol. Did that resolution get adopted? Who are “you guys” lol. You don’t think a few Dads would like to take their younger Sons and Daughters out with them a bit early some time?

Yup it makes sense I would like to see more youth getting onto the sport.

LC
We ALL would like to see more youth involved in Sports of ANY kind
but in this case I think there is a difference between scratching your azz and tearing it apart. More Soccer fields can be built ... if you get my point.
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  #268  
Old 04-16-2018, 09:30 PM
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The crossbow survey was in 2010. The results were - 37% Yes, 44% No & 19% Neutral

Crossbows - Did the die hard bowhunters get thier way?
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Old 04-16-2018, 09:51 PM
Salavee Salavee is offline
 
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It’s a desperate attempt to stop the inclusion of crossbows.

It appears that may be so .. not sure, but for whatever reason I believe it will backfire.
The whole system is so out of whack I don't see any recovery... and we keep adding to it.
At one time, kids entered the hunting fraternity by apprenticeship, more or less. Draws were unheard of, and usually the first animal or two taken was on a parents or mentors tag, or on the sly. Now, in far too many cases, the young ones qualify for a draw when they reach the age req'd for a WIN card and immediately enter the draw system, So does Mom and possibly Gramma and Gramps as well. Many families now qualify to take multiple Game animals every season .. maybe a dozen or so in many cases and some wonder what the problem is with the increasingly longer wait times. There it is. Of course, they are legally entitled to do so and so it goes. This applies right across the board, not just Archery. Individual restraint ? Not too common these days while the term "fill my freezer' is so common it's disgusting. Those days have been gone for decades.
The problems are obvious but the willingness ,by far too many individuals, to show some restraint, is lacking. The chance of the system correcting itself is nil. It's back to the individual participants, not organizations to sort themselves out as I see it. For me, I've had my time of over six decades to participate in some of the finest hunting opportunities Western Canada had to offer, or ever will, so for all intents and purposes, I'm out. What I fear for are the rapidly diminishing opportunities remaining for all the young ones out there. I know what they will be missing. What tool they would prefer to use won't really matter.
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Old 04-16-2018, 10:02 PM
HunterDave HunterDave is offline
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The crossbow survey was in 2010. The results were - 37% Yes, 44% No & 19% Neutral

Crossbows - Did the die hard bowhunters get thier way?
I just glanced through the thread and that’s how I remembered things happening. No one knew about the poll and the ABA mobilized the membership to skew the results......just like I stated.

It’s interesting how CNP changed is position to what he thought was best for hunting in Alberta and LC, who was undecided at the time, decided on what was best for him.

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Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck View Post
One side of me likes that it didnt get passed, means less people out there competing with me during bow season....

The other side of me says we need more people hunting and more voices to support what we do....
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