does vs bucks?

[Bhflyfisher]

When you're hunting, are you supposed to be shooting the bucks or the does? Just a question. Seeing as 1 buck could contribute to many offspring, but every offspring needs one mom. So if you shot the moms doesnt that hurt the population? I've got a friend thats saying you're supposed to be shooting the does and they took 2... i was always of the mind set you're looking for bucks and supposed to leave the does be.

Just curious, thanks for your insight!

[Lefty-Canuck]

I shoot the egg not the chicken.....hope this clears it up for you

LC

[jpkokanee]

I tend to shoot what i have tags for...

[jungleboy]

here we go

[Twobucks]

I'm sure someone will eventually get around to giving you a thoughtful answer, but this will have to do in the meantime:

If you are talking meat, between a 1.5 yr old buck and a doe, it doesn't make any difference. A big rutting buck will often taste stronger.

For conservation, it depends on the area. More deer isn't always a good thing - it can lead to starvation and generally less healthy animals. Sometimes tipping a bunch of does is good for the herd long term. But you're right, does can only produce one or two fawns a year, bucks can knock up as many does as they have the energy for.

Then again, if there is heavy pressure and all the bucks are getting whacked very young, the reproducing males are not necessarily the best genetics. THey're simply what's left.

I'm trying not to shoot any more young bucks - for me it's going to be does and mature bucks. That's my plan anyway. Depending on the date and the state of my freezer, I might bend a little.

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by Bhflyfisher

When you're hunting, are you supposed to be shooting the bucks or the does? Just a question. Seeing as 1 buck could contribute to many offspring, but every offspring needs one mom. So if you shot the moms doesnt that hurt the population? I've got a friend thats saying you're supposed to be shooting the does and they took 2... i was always of the mind set you're looking for bucks and supposed to leave the does be.

Just curious, thanks for your insight!

There is a big dust up about it every time this topic is brought up, and I will no longer continue to engage in threads such as this because some people choose to bring their own perspective into things (which sometimes has an emotional root).
Cat

[Bhflyfisher]

i didnt know this was a commonly asked question. Thanks for the replies i understand it a bit better now.

[Twobucks]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

There is a big dust up about it every time this topic is brought up, and I will no longer continue to engage in threads such as this because some people choose to bring their own perspective into things (which sometimes has an emotional root).
Cat

And here, friends, is the difference between a wise man and a smart man: A wise man doesn't get into situations that only a smart man can get out of.

I wish you'd posted before I did Cat!

I think it all comes down to maintaining a healthy over population number and then a healthy buck to doe ratio within that overall population. There is no one right answer as each population is different but typically, if managers are trying to reduce overall numbers, does are harvested. I'd say most deer populations in Alberta have a high doe to buck ratio and definitely the harvesting of SOME does is beneficial. Obviously there are extenuating circumstances like years after extreme winter kills etc where doe harvest must be reduced or eliminated. Basically the overall number of deer and carrying capacity of the habitat and other social factors dictates but in MOST populations, the harvesting of does is required and beneficial.

[huntslots]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

I think it all comes down to maintaining a healthy over population number and then a healthy buck to doe ratio within that overall population. There is no one right answer as each population is different but typically, if managers are trying to reduce overall numbers, does are harvested. I'd say most deer populations in Alberta have a high doe to buck ratio and definitely the harvesting of SOME does is beneficial. Obviously there are extenuating circumstances like years after extreme winter kills etc where doe harvest must be reduced or eliminated. Basically the overall number of deer and carrying capacity of the habitat and other social factors dictates but in MOST populations, the harvesting of does is required and beneficial.

That's a great answer..each area is specific. Wildlife management in Alberta should be the same...specific to area not broad brush Province wide.

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

I think it all comes down to maintaining a healthy over population number and then a healthy buck to doe ratio within that overall population. There is no one right answer as each population is different but typically, if managers are trying to reduce overall numbers, does are harvested. I'd say most deer populations in Alberta have a high doe to buck ratio and definitely the harvesting of SOME does is beneficial. Obviously there are extenuating circumstances like years after extreme winter kills etc where doe harvest must be reduced or eliminated. Basically the overall number of deer and carrying capacity of the habitat and other social factors dictates but in MOST populations, the harvesting of does is required and beneficial.

Good answer.....another thing is most people don't have the information available or the tools available to make informed decisions on their own.....perception is not always reality. So sadly we rely on SRD to make those decision and add or cut back on doe tags in areas where more or less harvest is needed.

LC

Originally Posted by huntslots

That's a great answer..each area is specific. Wildlife management in Alberta should be the same...specific to area not broad brush Province wide.

Well they do manage by WMU so not a broad brush stroke. Could it be better? Likely. Could it be worse....ya, a whole lot.

[Don K]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

Obviously there are extenuating circumstances like years after extreme winter kills etc where doe harvest must be reduced or eliminated.

Like last year...
And did the SRD do much about it? Nope still doe tags aplenty...
Lots of trucks driving around our place, but not to many deer. IMO there shouldn't be extra tags given in any of the zones I hunt, but the govt boys are slow to react. Maybe next year if there's anything left.

[hal53]

Key point there is "if there is anything left". Hunted here the last 2 days...grand total of 6 deer seen, 5 does and 1(!) fawn. Past years in 2 days you would see 50-60 in the same area...and not one White Tail seen...gonna be pretty bleak for the next couple years...think I have yet another Christmas tree ornament...can't justify shooting anything in this area.....

[huntslots]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

Well they do manage by WMU so not a broad brush stroke. Could it be better? Likely. Could it be worse....ya, a whole lot.

I don't believe they TRULY manage by WMU in some cases.


The Biologist at our input meeting said they use Province wide stats for sheep management. The only exception I know of is when they closed the Ram Mountain WMU for sheep.

Another example is grouse...no ruffed grouse around in some areas and lots in others but the limit has been 10 per day since I can remember.

[slough shark]

It comes down to populations in the area, if the pop is high shoot does if it is low shoot fawns, there is a reasonable chance (about 50%) that they don't make the winter anyways if there is any amount of snow and cold and if the pops are low then you need does to bring them back.

Originally Posted by Don K

Like last year...
And did the SRD do much about it? Nope still doe tags aplenty...
Lots of trucks driving around our place, but not to many deer. IMO there shouldn't be extra tags given in any of the zones I hunt, but the govt boys are slow to react. Maybe next year if there's anything left.

Seems to me they eliminated several WMUs this year from having supplimental whitetail tags. Apparently some hunters didn't read the regs though....lol

Originally Posted by huntslots

I don't believe they TRULY manage by WMU in some cases.


The Biologist at our input meeting said they use Province wide stats for sheep management. The only exception I know of is when they closed the Ram Mountain WMU for sheep.

Another example is grouse...no ruffed grouse around in some areas and lots in others but the limit has been 10 per day since I can remember.

I was pretty sure this thread was about deer

As I said, they don't always get it right but overall they do a pretty fine job. Gord, it seems sometimes you hear only what you want to hear at those meetings. There is lots of WMU by WMU management for sheep and more coming. I'm still trying to find the info about that Native cull you "heard" about.

[Don K]

Seriously?
Talked to guys that have hunted HARD in 208, 166, 220, 234, 224, 318 and 160. All hunting through bow season till now and very few tags filled... There are WAY less animals this year.
In the Calgary bow zone there's a cowpoke spots I know guys are seeing decent numbers of animals, but still down. The one spot I hunted last year in there (2 sections) usually full of deer is seriously lacking too, and I go by it at all the time.
I'm in a PRIME spot in 314 and our deer numbers are at best 1/2 what they were last year! We had 2 cat kills on our place, more wolves than I've ever seen before and hard packed snow. Chinooks? Nope. It was brutal for the deer last winter! Good for preds though. We found more bones this year than sheds, by a big margin...
If SRD was really on the ball there would have been a LOT of zones with a decreased harvest, some down to a single tag.

If a fawn has a 50/50 chance of making it then for every 2 we kill, one would have made it... Is it so important to get 40 lbs of meat off a fawn?
If this winters bad, as is predicted, those deer are important. Another 30-50% die off and our deer numbers will take a long time to recover...

We need to collectively pull our heads out of our as$&s and do something before our hunting isn't world class and it's back to the 70's and 80's where a guy was happy to see game...

Just my thoughts!

[aulrich]

But ironically it may have some application, Years ago I read of a ruff grouse study that found no corrilation between bag limits and population recoveries. a good hatch and folks get thier limits a bad hatch and few do so limit is irellavant on low years. And deer have a good ability to fill an area.

BTW what do folks think is a proper buck doe ratios. Back in the day before 304 and 305 (procupine hills) went draw it seemed that the ratio was 50-1 for mulies anyway.

Now I am hearing numbers like 2 -1 is ideal, though I would think we are on the bad side of to 4-1.

[sjemac]

I try to restrict my supps by only shooting fawns that are part of a set of twins or triplets (shooting one of the set). And yes, the 40 lbs of meat is worth it -- even the shoulder cuts are grill worthy.

This year I may forgo the supps since I already have a bull elk in the freezer. I'm concentrating on filling moose tags and getting the young fella on a deer. For him, anything legal goes down this year.

[huntslots]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

I was pretty sure this thread was about deer

As I said, they don't always get it right but overall they do a pretty fine job. Gord, it seems sometimes you hear only what you want to hear at those meetings. There is lots of WMU by WMU management for sheep and more coming. I'm still trying to find the info about that Native cull you "heard" about.

Google is your friend

Originally Posted by huntslots

Google is your friend

Actually tried that too Gord and even found White's Power Point on the bison reintroduction that you referenced but there was no mention of the Native cull. Perhaps you have a link? Perhaps you misunderstood what you heard?

[huntslots]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

Actually tried that too Gord and even found White's Power Point on the bison reintroduction that you referenced but there was no mention of the Native cull. Perhaps you have a link? Perhaps you misunderstood what you heard?

If you can't find it phone the Parks Canada Biologist in Banff, or try Cliff White. There is no doubt what we all heard. The biologist stood up and made the statement. Remember this thread is about deer!

Originally Posted by huntslots

If you can't find it phone the Parks Canada Biologist in Banff, or try Cliff White. There is no doubt what we all heard. The biologist stood up and made the statement. Remember this thread is about deer!

I tried all those people....Google too