Trap standards suck

nube · #1 01-12-2015, 10:53 AM

I have come to the conclusion that the certified traps are great for the animals in a quick death but for the end user the trapper they suck. I have trapped well over a dozen weasels this year and I would say one in 5 are useless because of an overpowered trap almost chopping them in half. I also just got done a marten and had chunks of fur coming off from a couple spots where the bars hit him. Not happy about that. This is the 2nd Marten with fur damage like this and I have not skinned many this year. Also I am not happy about a 48 hr leghold check. I have lost 2 lynx due to this as well from Canibalism. I agree we need these standards and it is for the best for the animals but the end game is to also have a piece of fur that is worth something and useable and it is sad to see some of my fur gone to waste. At least I feel good when I don't have to walk up to an animal that has been in a trap for 3+ days suffereing but it sure sucks.
Sorry I just had to post my rant of the day is all.

I feel much better now and on the way to go check some coyote snares to make me feel better

martinnordegg · #2 01-12-2015, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nube

I have come to the conclusion that the certified traps are great for the animals in a quick death but for the end user the trapper they suck. I have trapped well over a dozen weasels this year and I would say one in 5 are useless because of an overpowered trap almost chopping them in half. I also just got done a marten and had chunks of fur coming off from a couple spots where the bars hit him. Not happy about that. This is the 2nd Marten with fur damage like this and I have not skinned many this year. Also I am not happy about a 48 hr leghold check. I have lost 2 lynx due to this as well from Canibalism. I agree we need these standards and it is for the best for the animals but the end game is to also have a piece of fur that is worth something and useable and it is sad to see some of my fur gone to waste. At least I feel good when I don't have to walk up to an animal that has been in a trap for 3+ days suffereing but it sure sucks.
Sorry I just had to post my rant of the day is all.

I feel much better now and on the way to go check some coyote snares to make me feel better

Certified traps certainly do not "suck". Not sure what you are using for weasel but the only time I have ever had a problem with marten was my own fault for trying to take the trap off before the carcass was properly thawed out or there was some pine pitch in the fur I didn't notice before tearing out a bit of fur. . Not sure how the 48 hour rule lost you your lynx. Canibalism is very common when trapping lynx especially if you are not checking your traps/snares often. I hope you have a better day!

alder · #3 01-12-2015, 12:30 PM

quote "Also I am not happy about a 48 hr leghold check. I have lost 2 lynx due to this as well from Canibalism."

Can't you just check them more frequently? "Once every 48 hours" means you can check them more often than that if you want just not less, no? I'm confused.

HunterDave · #4 01-12-2015, 12:35 PM

How's your day going so far, Nube?

I understand your frustration but I don't really understand your logic wrt it being the trap standards fault. If you have a 48hr check window there's nothing stopping you from checking more often. WRT weasels getting into your marten traps, would it be helpful to target them with weasel boxes with rat traps to try to keep them out of your marten sets?

mark-edmonton · #5 01-12-2015, 12:39 PM

I think what he is meaning is the 48 hr check is too short! He has lost lynx in snares as many of use do! I too would like to the leg hold trap check extended by a day!

HunterDave · #6 01-12-2015, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mark-edmonton

I think what he is meaning is the 48 hr check is too short! He has lost lynx in snares as many of use do! I too would like to the leg hold trap check extended by a day!

Wouldn't that just increase the odds of the trapped critter being eaten? Just sayin'......

The Spruce · #7 01-12-2015, 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HunterDave

How's your day going so far, Nube?

I understand your frustration but I don't really understand your logic wrt it being the trap standards fault. If you have a 48hr check window there's nothing stopping you from checking more often. WRT weasels getting into your marten traps, would it be helpful to target them with weasel boxes with rat traps to try to keep them out of your marten sets?

That is the answer right there. Double up in high Ermine traffic areas. Plus if you catch an Ermine in a box, the bigger predators usually come check out the scene and find your box. As for the fur damage, I have never had any from a 160 or 120 before. Make sure animal is thawed out before removing from the trap. 48 hours on a leg hold is just good practice. Would you feel comfortable having a Lynx (or any other animal) in foot hold for 7 days between checks? I know I wouldn't.

Spruce

jawa · #8 01-12-2015, 12:52 PM

try some clear rubber tube over your strike bars new 160s even 120s have a lot of smack will spread out on weasel and not blow a hole in the sides also will limit frost burn on martin which could explain fur pulled also check if there is anything martin can rub against after caught they can damage themselves if strike dosnt kill imediatly not mutch you can do about lynx when I have time will upload pics of one I had eaten this year wasn't even froze and was minus twenty seven so not in snare very long can try hanging pole set get them off ground and out of reach

nube · #9 01-12-2015, 02:02 PM

I would love to check my traps every 48 hrs but when you have to drive 3 hrs each way it doesn't really work lol

I got plans for next year to avoid eaten lynx.
Like I said earlier and as a few here understand yeas it would be nice to be able to have longer leghold checks BUT I don't like the idea of having a critter in a trap for more than that length of time so I doubt I would do it anyways so snares it is.
As for the Marten I am not sure if it is frost burn where he got smacked or what but I had a big chunk come loose and then a small spot on the other side where the bar hit him.

As for the weasels, these new 120's turn the smaller ones into mush. A few have been pinched so tight there is no meat between the bars and just skin that a lot of times is torn.

Like I said guys I got lots to learn and have lots to change up for next year I just wasn't impressed with using overpowered traps is all.

braggadoe · #10 01-12-2015, 02:36 PM

where i'm trapping marten((on the west coast)not this year). i waxed all my coni's. some people say its a bad idea.

its wet, then very cold, then wet, ect. the first season trapping in those conditions i also had damage from the traps.

next season i waxed all of them, it eliminated all most all damage. very rarely are any damaged. have to clear the wax from the dog/trigger with a file.also leave the springs set in the off season. was it the wax? or leaving the springs compressed all year? not sure, but something worked.

as for the weasel. i'm surprised that the victor rat trap is certified. it just doesn't get them all. and even with all the tricks, its hard to keep the mice out and the trap running.
its defiantly undersized for the prairie long tails down here. i've taken some with it. but not as many as i should.

have a few of the koro rodent traps. and will be going with all koro's next season. very good trap. can build the same type of weasel boxes and have them under your marten boxes.

i'ld like to see a 48 hr check time for resident foot traps.

nube · #11 01-12-2015, 04:31 PM

I just wonder if it is the cold weather and the trap hitting so hard and then the skin freezing in the few spots it rests agains the trap. I take all my marten back to the cabin and warm them up overnight or at least till they are soft enough to take them out of the trap. I wonder if I may be mishandling them while in travel though. Might have to try and put them in a bag or something while enroute to the cabin. The skin on the marten isn't broken its it just in a couple spots when I comb the fur just peeled off in a couple clumps about 1/2 an inch wide and an inch long

Marten1576 · #12 01-12-2015, 07:20 PM

Ldl 120 have significantly less spring power and are cert for marten . But not fisher. Might help you out .

nube · #13 01-12-2015, 07:27 PM

I hear good things about those traps. I think they are about the same price as well. It might be something to look into. I don't think Halford has them though and might have to order them in,.

Tfng · #14 01-12-2015, 08:06 PM

What brand of traps are you using now?

nube · #15 01-12-2015, 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TFNG

What brand of traps are you using now?

Belisle. They are mean little suckers.

Big Grey Wolf · #16 01-20-2015, 11:05 AM

Nube, good suggestion you made, put your fur in sack immediately on the line, banging around and freezing to sleigh hard on fur, especially when trap still attached. In a few years your trap springs will weaken a little and not hit so hard.

nube · #17 01-20-2015, 11:11 AM

Funny you posted and brought this thread up again. I was just in Halfords taking in another 23 coyotes. I took some time to look at some fur there and noticed on a handfull of Marten the same thing I had issues with. You could see chunks of fur missing and also spots where the strike bar hit you could see a line in the fur. To me I understand why we have these rules and yes it is better for the animals but at the same time it sure sucks seeing good fur wasted on some of the catches

Tfng · #18 01-20-2015, 11:32 AM

Does it look like the dog is tearing the fur out? I bought some sauvageaus for mink which are still sitting in the box. Double frame so the dog can't do damage.

That wouldn't help with the line (frost damage?) but might not tear fur out. I was just curious if the different design was worth the extra cost.

braggadoe · #19 01-20-2015, 11:47 AM

wax on the bar keeps the cold metal from freezing to the warm/damp(body heat) fur of a freshly caught critter and makeing the line of missing hairs your seeing. that's the theory, anyway.

bit of a side track, wooden deadfalls leave no marks on fur. they take a bit of time to build. it's pretty cool to harvest a critter in trap, made from natural materials from the location. best to build them in the summer when time is on your side.

they're legal under the AIHTS agreement. they don't take the place of steel traps but they are very effective on marten and such.

just throwing that out there, if your into that sort of thing. very rewarding to harvest an animal with a primitive device you built yourself.

nube · #20 01-20-2015, 11:54 AM

Thanks Brag I will maybe try that. One guy on here suggested putting tape around the bar as well. Thee is no tearing but it seems like Frost damage may be the answer but I know nothing on how that all works.
Not sure if I have mentioned it before but on shot animals just the concussion around the bullet hole will loose you fur. I see it on taxidermy critters all the time after the tan. The fur around the hole just fell out because of the shock. I wonder if it is the shock of the bars hitting? I think I would lean more toward frost damage but who knows.

KegRiver · #21 01-23-2015, 03:46 AM

It is frustrating for sure when a catch gets damaged by the trap.
But it's kinda a double edged sword.

The first generation conibear traps worked well, most of the time, but they too had failed catches. Oh they didn't chop things in half, but sometimes when the catch wasn't caught correctly the animal would live for a while and during that time they would fight, very often, damaging themselves in the process.

So it's kind a matter of what sort of damage bothers you the most.

Personally I think the latest generation of traps are unnecessarily overpowered.
Although the goal of rendering an animal clinically dead in a few seconds is commendable, I really don't think it makes a bit of difference to the caught animal.

Those old traps hit hard too, and when properly set they would render an animal unconscious almost instantly. Sure the heart didn't stop beating for a couple of minutes, or maybe more. But a good many animals never regained consciousness.

I've seen it with my own eyes and seen evidence that this is what happened, many many times. To be fair though, I've also witnessed some spectacular failures as well, with both the first generation traps and much later, with the updated, overpowered traps.

We can't even drive down the highway without risking causing other creatures, even humans a great deal of pain and suffering. I think it's ludicrous to expect trapping and hunting to perform the equivalent of what a Vet does in his clinic when putting an animal down.

I'd bet that even in shuch a highly controlled enviournment, with the best of tools and drugs at his finger tips, most if not all vets have had their own spetacular failures as well.

jim summit · #22 01-23-2015, 08:01 AM

Yes i agree, even at a Vet clinic with the vet standing right there, things go wrong.
To expect a trap to work perfectly every time from -40C to +5C, animal size of a weasel to marten and even fisher for which the Belisle 120 is approved, just to many variables.
Thats what makes trapping a challenge, and fun. Making things work out in the forest where you learn and adapt for changing conditions.

I'm not sure how the boys down south in US manage to trap with their foot traps and still send to the same auction as us that follow trapping standards.