45-70 for bush gun any thoughts

[bobmac]

I’m thinking about getting a 45-70 for my close range gun moose bear hopefully bison one day thought on the cal would be great thinking no scope
Thanks Bob

[HowSwedeItIs]

A classic- I too would like a bush gun in .45-70 one day. My dream rifle would be a Winchester model 1886. Heard a lot about quality control issues with the Marlins and I don't like the magazine on the Henry. A gun like that you want to work as intended every time

[Bushleague]

Originally Posted by HowSwedeItIs

A classic- I too would like a bush gun in .45-70 one day. My dream rifle would be a Winchester model 1886. Heard a lot about quality control issues with the Marlins and I don't like the magazine on the Henry. A gun like that you want to work as intended every time

I recently read an article called "Is Marlin Back?" where they tested a few of the new Marlins, and their findings were that the QC problems of a few years ago have been taken care of. Good news IMO.

As a dedicated bush hunter, here's my opinion on bush guns... whatever gun you use the most is the best rifle to use for bush hunting. When the shots are close and need to be made quick the most important thing, without exception, is that you are extremely familiar with your gun.

IMO a dedicated "bush gun" only makes sense if it is to be your main rifle, if you don't hunt bush the majority of the time then ensuring your main rifle is not extremely long, overly heavy, or wearing too much magnification is a better plan.

For the hunter that pretty much only hunts thick timber a 45-70 would make an excellent main rifle.

[Don_Parsons]

There's a fellow on YouTube that makes shooting the 45/70 look easy.
Forward Tang with peep-hole rear.

One shot at a time off a old shooting bench or the Two-Stick.

Very impressed as he launched those 365gr lead bullets down range onto the iron silhouettes.

Dead Eye Shooter for sure.

Glad you're onto a path of good times.

Don

[Boogerfart]

The 45/70 is a great brush rifle, I've got a pair of H&R's, a carbon steel/wood stock with iron sights and a 22" barrel and a stainless/laminate stock with a scope and 24" barrel. The stainless is my current favorite rifle.
My only concern would be if you reload, if you don't reload at all it would be time to start, you'll want to start casting your own bullets as well, it takes the cost from dollers per round to pennies per round.
There's no need for full power rounds unless you're concerned about short range bears or something, a 405gr bullet is deadly even at very low speeds and much easier on the shoulder. A buddy of mine shot a moose this fall with his 45/70, the load was a hand cast 405gr bullet over 14gr of Unique, the moose dropped on the spot, the shot was from about 50yds.

[Smokinyotes]

I have a jm stamped 1895 cowboy with 26" octagon barrel. Its a hard kickin' killin machine. I had the original sights and put a tang sight on it. After a few years i couldnt see the peep sight anymore and ended up putting a 2-7 Leopold on it. Everyone should own a 45/70.

[Sask Bearman]

I agree, everyone should have a 45/70. I have an older JM Marlin guide gun. It's factory ported and will crack your ears but kills stuff quick. Shot a bear in the middle of the chest and it came out his rear one time with a 350 grain hornady.

[Digger1]

Definitely a capable classic. I had a Marlin guide gun for a long time, which I sold. My wife even liked it! I'd definitely go with a longer barrel next time for a little more 'pleasant' shooting.

[1899b]

I went through the .45-70 guide gun and Marlin .444 phase years ago. Problem was I always found myself in cutblocks or on a cutline when out in the bush where in all reality it’s the last kinda firearm you would want in those circumstances. Go for it. Quench your thirst and see where it leads..

[HowSwedeItIs]

Originally Posted by Bushleague

I recently read an article called "Is Marlin Back?" where they tested a few of the new Marlins, and their findings were that the QC problems of a few years ago have been taken care of. Good news IMO.

As a dedicated bush hunter, here's my opinion on bush guns... whatever gun you use the most is the best rifle to use for bush hunting. When the shots are close and need to be made quick the most important thing, without exception, is that you are extremely familiar with your gun.

IMO a dedicated "bush gun" only makes sense if it is to be your main rifle, if you don't hunt bush the majority of the time then ensuring your main rifle is not extremely long, overly heavy, or wearing too much magnification is a better plan.

For the hunter that pretty much only hunts thick timber a 45-70 would make an excellent main rifle.

Man it's great to hear that they're shaping up, the guide guns are much more accessible to the average guy than most of their competition. Still, for what you pay for one you sure don't want to have to work the gun over for burrs haha

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by bobmac

I’m thinking about getting a 45-70 for my close range gun moose bear hopefully bison one day thought on the cal would be great thinking no scope
Thanks Bob

Marlin GBL.
Son has one, when I shot it it was a push into the shoulder, rested using the peep sight which is provided on this rifle put 5 shots in a 2.5" cluster at 100 yards. Funny this was very consistant with various weights too...just a nice, smooth handling fast target acquisition rifle.
Check out the SBL model too

[bobinthesky]

The Marlin is a good rifle but in 45-70, the action is too short for the longer/heavier bullets which (IMO) are what is best at close range if your using it for bear defense. For hunting of course, the lighter 250 to 300 grain bullets are fine. Chiappa's 1886 clone has a larger action and can cycle the heavy bullets just fine but it's heavier and more expensive to buy but it is available in a short barrel version.
If you never get out of thick bush then these are good choices for hunting rifles but your severely handicapped when you step out onto a cut line and see the bull of your dreams standing 350 yards away presenting the perfect shot..... for a scoped rifle!

[smle303]

up some bush use in tight spots.

[bobtodrick]

Picked up a Pedersoli Sharps Calvary Carbine this year...should be the cats derriere if you like single shots.

[YYC338]

Originally Posted by bobinthesky

The Marlin is a good rifle but in 45-70, the action is too short for the longer/heavier bullets which (IMO) are what is best at close range if your using it for bear defense. For hunting of course, the lighter 250 to 300 grain bullets are fine. Chiappa's 1886 clone has a larger action and can cycle the heavy bullets just fine but it's heavier and more expensive to buy but it is available in a short barrel version.
If you never get out of thick bush then these are good choices for hunting rifles but your severely handicapped when you step out onto a cut line and see the bull of your dreams standing 350 yards away presenting the perfect shot..... for a scoped rifle!

How big a bullet are you talking about? I load 450gr Montana & 465gr Cast Performance hard cast bullets and have never had a problem with cycling.
Being hard cast, they'd likely penetrate end to end although I've never had the need to shoot a big bear (thank God!). Lots of information on other forums about this though. People shooting up to 525gr Piledrivers without issues in 1895's also. The 1895 seems to be a choice for more than a few Alaskan guides too. I can imagine they're going into bear country loaded with short 250 - 350gr rounds.

Rifle is a JM 1895SS

All my other 1895's (CBA, SBL & GS) shoot 405 gr jacketed bullets without issues either.

[guysmiley]

I have the GBL model and it's great. They absolutely fixed the quality issues. The fit and finish are wonderful and it is a joy to shoot.

Rarely is it not with me while at the farm.

https://www.cabelas.ca/product/24569

[bobinthesky]

Originally Posted by YYC338

How big a bullet are you talking about? I load 450gr Montana & 465gr Cast Performance hard cast bullets and have never had a problem with cycling.
Being hard cast, they'd likely penetrate end to end although I've never had the need to shoot a big bear (thank God!). Lots of information on other forums about this though. People shooting up to 525gr Piledrivers without issues in 1895's also. The 1895 seems to be a choice for more than a few Alaskan guides too. I can imagine they're going into bear country loaded with short 250 - 350gr rounds.

Rifle is a JM 1895SS

All my other 1895's (CBA, SBL & GS) shoot 405 gr jacketed bullets without issues either.

Some bullets such as the ones you mention are designed with the Marlin in mind and they have the cannelure placed further ahead so the bullet can be seated deep enough to shorten the overall length. The downside to a forward cannelure is decreased powder space in the case. The upside to this is the popular belief that bullet weight trumps velocity for close in bear defense.
I can tell you from experience that 350 grain Hot Cor and 405 grain Remington bullets to name a couple are too long to cycle in the Marlin if crimped into the cannelure and these are the bullets that you will most likely find in your local store rather than specialty cast 525 grain Piledriver bullets.

[morinj]

Excellent choice, covers a lot of applications, with one caliber!

[YYC338]

Originally Posted by bobinthesky

Some bullets such as the ones you mention are designed with the Marlin in mind and they have the cannelure placed further ahead so the bullet can be seated deep enough to shorten the overall length. The downside to a forward cannelure is decreased powder space in the case. The upside to this is the popular belief that bullet weight trumps velocity for close in bear defense.
I can tell you from experience that 350 grain Hot Cor and 405 grain Remington bullets to name a couple are too long to cycle in the Marlin if crimped into the cannelure and these are the bullets that you will most likely find in your local store rather than specialty cast bullets.

Lots of good bullets out there. 405 Rem's are no longer being manufactured though. I use 400gr Barnes originals which hold together a lot better than the Rem's ever did. 350 gr Swift A-Frames are spendy but an excellent bullet. Even the 350gr Hornady FP designed for the 450 Marlin are very good for the price, cheap and also easy to find at Cabela's or they'll order them to store for free.

Who needs stores to find items these days anyway? It's an internet world out there and product comes right to your door for reasonable shipping if you shop around.

Probably easier to find FP bullets designed for the 45-70 that work in Marlins than to find those that don't.

[stob]

met a guy who put a 405 gr cor bon I believe it was stem to stern on a big moose at 25paces and apparently the moose fell in it's shadow

[stob]

mine is marlin guide gun ss that I can hit a 200m gong with the ghost ring sites with 325gr flex tips all day long ... all day long with this gun is about 15 shots - lol - for me and the straight grip - ughhh

[dogslayer403]

Have had a jm stamped guide model for years and love it, recently purchased a new gbl for the wife been wanting to for a while but was leary of the new quality it functions as it should so i am happy with it my only complaint is the fit and finish is a joke compared to my jm stamped 1895 much much less attention to detail especially the wood fit. But it is a saddle gun that will see many scratches and hard use so pretty wasnt a big deal for me. If your looking i see cabelas calgary had some really cheap (new ) in the gun library $599 i believe

[S.A.S.]

I was looking into 45-70 lever action rifles also. I liked the Henry but I liked the Marlin's capacity of 6+1 over the Henry's 4. I hear the Marlins are being made better than they were for a few years. I also heard the Henry's may have had a problem with the feeding tube cap because of a large round and recoil. I still like the henry but would probably pick up a Marlin and try it out. You can always sell it if it isn't what you want. I myself might just pick up a Remington rolling block reproduction as I don't really need a bush gun and would like something with some history and some barrel. I think it will be a lot of fun to shoot also.

[stuckeyman]

Originally Posted by bobmac

I’m thinking about getting a 45-70 for my close range gun moose bear hopefully bison one day thought on the cal would be great thinking no scope
Thanks Bob

Hello bobmac; as to your original post, you can see a lot of people like the 45/70. Me included I've been shooting one for a few years now I love it. Now I'm just getting in to reloading them, and I'm excited about the possibilities what this old classic caliber can do.

On a side note, I've converted a few family members who once questioned my original idea of the 45/70 and it changed their mind.

[Unregistered user]

I have 2 guide guns, took one in a trade. They are a lot of fun and work well, kinda rough on the shoulder though. You'll never feel "Under-gunned" with one of these beasts in 45-70. Great cartridge. Is $500 fair for a close to new, minty GBL?

[maudite]

I have a Browning 86 carbine in 45/70 and I recommend them highly

[openfire]

I have a JM marlin, Great bush gun.
Took this Buck with it in some thick stuff, less then 30 yards.

[Unregistered user]

I really like the Leverevolution ammo in mine.

[yukon254]

I've been using a 45/70 for many years now. Mostly as a back-up gun while guiding, but I have hunted with them a lot too. The JM Marlins were the best of the Marlins. The Winchester 1886s are pricey but very good quality and mine will shoot with the best Marlins. For bullets I use mostly cast. The NOE 350 Ranch Dog design is an excellent bullet and all you ever need.

Now all that being said, imo the 444 is a better caliber. Winchester 444s are hard to find is the calibers only downfall. I have two JM 444s and wouldn't trade them for any 45/70. Again I use mostly cast bullets in them. The LEE 310 plain base is a good bullet, but my favourite is the NOE 265 Ranch Dog design. You wont find these bullets in anything including grizzly from any angle.

[Bowser]

DO it...you'll have no regrets.