Treating apprentices like dirt

[coastalhunter]

You can tell a lot about a person who thinks certain tasks are below them once they get their JM.

I sweep the floors and take the garbage out still, and the one 2nd year we have won't do either.

[TylerThomson]

Originally Posted by leo

I've been involved in building construction for about 35 years. I worked my way up from the bottom. I worked as a General Contractor and contract Superintendent on some nice commercial projects. Then dived into the large projects such as the New Edmonton Remand and the Bow Tower in Calgary. Right now I'm the senior superintendent building a 100 M greenhouse at the airport by Leduc. Now that I've qualified my opinions, my mantra is very simple. Not one person's job is any more important than anothers, including mine. As individuals we can show our merit, but it takes a dedicated team to put up large structures. Somedays the most valuable employees are the ones that sweep the floor. Screamers and swollen egos don't garner respect or fear. Just loathing.

So it is safe to assume you get paid the same as your custodians?

[TylerThomson]

Originally Posted by reddeerguy2015

What does that even mean ????

It means if you can't take pride in your work site you probably don't take pride in your work.

[WillyOneStyle]

I start out with a lot of patience. I am, after all, training the guy. As time goes on, patience wheres thin and I let my guys know. At times, I let them know all day long. When it is quitting time, that is over, they don't have to deal with me again until the next shift.

Very recently, I lost my apprentice to a car wreck. He was an incredible human being. My patience never wore thin with him. I am sure glad about that. We parted on good terms.

[schreyer]

Whenever we get a new operator on site, I try my best to make time to train the guy with what I know about the site. The way I look at it, the easier I make it for him, the faster he'll catch on, the easier it'll make my job down the road.

It's not so much putting in the 12 hour days. It's the people that you work with that'll make the difference. Totally different atmosphere now, than when I joined the rigs when I was 18.

[Team Anzac]

Being a Structural Ironworker for 25 years I've seen a lot of apprentices come and go. You know the ones that are cut out to do the work, which is a very small percentage. The weak are weeded out, and the strong survive. This will never change, If you want the world handed to you on a platter, the trades are not the place to be.

[Bushrat]

Some apprentices come in and expect to do nothing but what they think a journeyman does on the first day. We had one guy who expected we would put a spray gun in his hand and let him spray a car. We told him he would be sweeping floors, cleaning, sanding, masking, etc for several months and if he wanted to learn to paint he would have to find some throwaway fenders and doors and ask the painter nicely if there was any left over paint could he go in the booth and spray the remains on the old fender as long as he kept up with his other work. His attitude went in the toilet. The next day he showed up with his mom at 8:00 who demanded he be allowed to spray cars as that's what he was hired to learn and how was he going to learn to paint cars if we had him sweeping,sanding, masking. She demanded this part of the job was not fair to her son, he was not interested in that, we were taking advantage of him by making him do this menial labour, it was dusty and dirty and wasting his time when we should be teaching him to paint cars. She was going to labour standards and file a complaint against us. Never saw the kid again.

[7mmremmag]

Originally Posted by Ken07AOVette

The rigs are by far the worst. I worked on a rig with a snot nosed little dbag, and trust me he wore the uniform 24/7. Big lifted dodge, white sunglasses, barb wire tattoo on his water arms, you know the type.
He was absolutely ignorant and miserable to green guys, and for whatever reason they kept him on.
That didn't last long with me. I wouldn't be pushed around by these little pukes.

I can honestly say as a Service Rig Consultant it has come a long way since I started 14yrs ago. There is a lot less of this than there used to be.
Not saying its perfect now, but definitely improved.

[omega50]

Apprenticed in the Cook Trade in the late 80's.

The abuse at the time would make Gordon Ramsey blush.
I remember I had just started at the Delta Bow Valley and it was my second day. Calgary Stampede was on and a huge thunderstorm rolled in and within minutes we were totally slammed. I got thrown on the line manning the broiler. No instruction from the Chef-Just F-bombs and grill orders. Squirrel system was spitting out new orders onto the counter and onto the floor

I loaded the grill with about 20 burgers and 10 steaks only to find out that I had greatly exceeded the capacity of the ventilation system to remove smoke. Triggered a fire alarm , which shut down the kitchen vents. Kitchen and restaurant filling with smoke-Fire department running through the kitchen following their protocols. Chef went absolutely beserk screaming obscenities that I haven't heard before or since.

The heat was insane and I was dripping sweat and on the verge of passing out and I went to the sink to take a drink of water.

Chef beside himself that I had the audacity to take the time to have a sip of water during the rush.2" from my face screaming and hurtling insults about having extra time on my hands if I had time to take a sip of water.
I looked him in the eye and told him-Yes I took a sip-but I would not swallow until the rush was over.

He stormed out too upset to deal with me . Asked later if there was any need for me to come in the next day. He started laughing and told me all things considered I handled the rush pretty well, but cautioned me against future sarcasm

[bobtodrick]

I apprenticed at R. Angus in the early 70's.
Nothing but good things to say about the way they treated us.
Of course we got some unpleasant tasks (doing an acid wash on a D8 to strip the paint was pretty nasty)...but was always treated with respect.

[The Fisherman Guy]

I started in the patch nearly 20 years ago, and experienced my fair share of overly enthusiastic drillers who loved to watch "their worms" squirm. I saw guys come and go, while I started working my way up.

Just recently I have entered a completely new heavy industry.The ribbing I receive for being a new guy who lacks experience and knowledge is par for the course if you ask me. I am glad for it, it's part of personal development. Experienced guys will always test the merits of the new.

If you can't take the heat at an entry level, what makes you believe you would be able to handle the pressures of a senior position?

[leo]

Originally Posted by TylerThomson

So it is safe to assume you get paid the same as your custodians?

I'm sure you'll figure it out when you grow up and stop being an internet troll.

[Fisherpeak]

I don`t mind the razzing and joking but I can not abide a bully. I don`t get that anymore(too old and mean) but I have seen the crap some bosses chuck out on decent guys.Do that to me and it`s a fight and I`m looking to work someplace else.No reason to put up with Nazi Bull sh!t.

[TylerThomson]

Originally Posted by leo

I'm sure you'll figure it out when you grow up and stop being an internet troll.

Troll? The whole everybody is important feel good nonsense drives me crazy. It's upper management feel good speak. Now I'm not saying everyone at work doesn't deserve to be treated with respect what I'm saying is that putting a general labourer who's job is to pick up skids and garbage at the same level of importance as a skilled equipment operator or a journeyman tradesman is disingenuous. One can be replaced by literally any warm body the other can not. One simply has to show up in the morning with a pair of boots and the other has spend years honing their skills.

It's the same type of management feel good speak that has created a race to the bottom for skilled workers on big projects. You see it a lot info places like fort mcmurray. Their is no difference in compensation between independent contractors and as a result there is no competition between them resulting in most guys having the attitude of why should I do that if Bob only does this much in a day.

If you truly believe that no one is more important than anyone else on a job site and that all employees are equals then you need to dust off your boots and get back on the tools for a while.

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by 45-70man

I grew up through the trades and compleated my apprenticeship, some days were rough but honestly most of the treating people like "dirt" was blown way out of proportion. the people complaining they were treated unfairly were almost exclusively very subpar workers. Not necessarily because they weren't allstar good at their job but their tradesmenship was extremely lacking and their work ethic sucks.
Today's breed of apprentice has caused me walk away from supervisor/Forman roles and walk away from the trade altogether.

Yup hands tide when dealing with these types, a stern verbal lashing or a boot to the arse was the way with these certain types but now the old HR card will come out quicker than you think and your standing there wondering where did society go wrong...

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by schreyer

Whenever we get a new operator on site, I try my best to make time to train the guy with what I know about the site. The way I look at it, the easier I make it for him, the faster he'll catch on, the easier it'll make my job down the road.

It's not so much putting in the 12 hour days. It's the people that you work with that'll make the difference. Totally different atmosphere now, than when I joined the rigs when I was 18.

Ya but where do you draw the line as in constantly taking one step forward and two steps back with the same individual that is just a cancer to the crew...we all had them...today we have too many steps to accommodate dead weight and not enough to benefit the others that pick up the slack for these idle crows.
It's very time consuming, stressful and not beneficial to overall outcome but I boot to the arse or a good old taking to out of sight and hearing distance of others might put things into perspective...as for the HR card being played...conversation never happened.

[leo]

Originally Posted by TylerThomson

Troll? The whole everybody is important feel good nonsense drives me crazy. It's upper management feel good speak. Now I'm not saying everyone at work doesn't deserve to be treated with respect what I'm saying is that putting a general labourer who's job is to pick up skids and garbage at the same level of importance as a skilled equipment operator or a journeyman tradesman is disingenuous. One can be replaced by literally any warm body the other can not. One simply has to show up in the morning with a pair of boots and the other has spend years honing their skills.

It's the same type of management feel good speak that has created a race to the bottom for skilled workers on big projects. You see it a lot info places like fort mcmurray. Their is no difference in compensation between independent contractors and as a result there is no competition between them resulting in most guys having the attitude of why should I do that if Bob only does this much in a day.

If you truly believe that no one is more important than anyone else on a job site and that all employees are equals then you need to dust off your boots and get back on the tools for a while.

PM sent. sorry op, I'll keep this discussion private.

[pikergolf]

The two men I apprenticed under treated me well. Hell, they treated everyone one well, from the cleaning staff to the guys that we supported that were always breaking stuff. It payed off in spades for both of them, as the were universally liked and respected. The lower positions, "cleaners, trades helpers, etc", would bend over backwards for them. It was a lesson that wasn't lost on me. My favorite of the two always told me, treat others the way you want to be treated.

[catnthehat]

If there were no labourers who would clean up after everyone?
If there were no labourers who would do all the things like packing lumber or flagging vehicles ?

When an apprentice or labourer gets hurt it costs just as much In lost time investigations and WBC Rates as if the highest paid person on the job was injured .

So yeah, the people who some think are the mostly lowly type of person on the job are just as or rant as the highest paid superintendent and they deserve the same respect if they are doing their job well.
One man dies not build a project
Cat

[leo]

Originally Posted by pikergolf

The two men I apprenticed under treated me well. Hell, they treated everyone one well, from the cleaning staff to the guys that we supported that were always breaking stuff. It payed off in spades for both of them, as the were universally liked and respected. The lower positions, "cleaners, trades helpers, etc", would bend over backwards for them. It was a lesson that wasn't lost on me. My favorite of the two always told me, treat others the way you want to be treated.

Agree 200%..

[roger]

even the apprentice cashier employee at timmies this morning was having issues in the new position, im a journeyman consumer so its up to me to be understanding patient, clear and helpful.

respect for apprentices shouldnt just be on the 'my' jobsite.

i have had some genuinely ignorant journeyman but im sure everyone has those stories.

[CaberTosser]

I guess ignorant apprentices is another thread.....

Some people are teachable, others make it too difficult. I know Mr Miyagi said "No such thing as bad student, only bad teacher!" but the students have to at least be willing to try.

[TraskDaddy1]

Going into the trade I was warned that most journeyman “treat apprentices like garbage”. But my experience was completely different . I have nothing but good things to say about all the guys and gals I’ve worked with in the scaffolding trade. Of course there were times I’d get snapped at but all for good reason. As I’ve progressed brought the trade I have however seen some first year treated like dirt, usually because of there work ethic. But I digress. I think the whole treat apprentices like dirt is dead . Thank god haha


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[normstad]

Originally Posted by Bushrat

Some apprentices come in and expect to do nothing but what they think a journeyman does on the first day. We had one guy who expected we would put a spray gun in his hand and let him spray a car. We told him he would be sweeping floors, cleaning, sanding, masking, etc for several months and if he wanted to learn to paint he would have to find some throwaway fenders and doors and ask the painter nicely if there was any left over paint could he go in the booth and spray the remains on the old fender as long as he kept up with his other work. His attitude went in the toilet. The next day he showed up with his mom at 8:00 who demanded he be allowed to spray cars as that's what he was hired to learn and how was he going to learn to paint cars if we had him sweeping,sanding, masking. She demanded this part of the job was not fair to her son, he was not interested in that, we were taking advantage of him by making him do this menial labour, it was dusty and dirty and wasting his time when we should be teaching him to paint cars. She was going to labour standards and file a complaint against us. Never saw the kid again.

Amazing the kid would let his mom come to a body shop (hung around a few in my days). Most of us would be embarrassed as all get out.

[Geraldsh]

Back in the day, when I was a service rig operator I got my nephew hired on as roughneck but I told the manager I didn't want him on my rig. Company had 10 rigs so that was not a problem and nephew was a farm boy with a good work ethic so he did alright. Within a month though, everyone in the whole dang company was calling me uncle

[boah]

Originally Posted by ResidentSpokesman

I abuse every one of them twice as hard as I got it.

I go through a lot of them lol

why?

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by ResidentSpokesman

I abuse every one of them twice as hard as I got it.

I go through a lot of them lol

I wonder if they learn anything other than hatred and contempt for people like you ?
Cat

[Ken07AOVette]

Originally Posted by WillyOneStyle

Very recently, I lost my apprentice to a car wreck. He was an incredible human being. My patience never wore thin with him. I am sure glad about that. We parted on good terms.

My condolences to friends and family. Sorry to hear that.

[Don K]

Originally Posted by dmcbride

X3 weeds out the guys milking a job.

Exactly! Way to many of them and only getting worse...

[trophybook]

Originally Posted by boah

why?

Little mouth piece kids need to get the gears and shown who's boss....to entitled these days