Red Deer RCMP gun seizure

[kevinhits]

Originally Posted by Scott N

The only point I was trying to make is that when ever firearms are recovered, not matter what they are.... Cooey 22s, airguns, cross bows, the RCMP try to make it look like they like they have really taken a big chunk out of gun crime. You know... like High River. Of course the media is more than happy to play the game...."cache of ammo seized", "arsenal of weapons" taken off the street. No wonder the uninformed general public is scared of guns.

Don't get me wrong, I'm happy that these scumbags are off the street, no doubt probably to be right back out, but those guns were likely only to be sold, not used in other crimes.

I for one understand the point you were making....

[bobtodrick]

Originally Posted by Okotokian

Point is they were the weapons of choice for these criminals. And photos of weapons seized in drug raids routinely contain bolt action rifles. You and I have both seen them, along with stolen handguns, home made firearms, etc (note the new Sask zip gun thread) And no one is saying there is "bolt action weapon problem". You are the only person referring to that. Take it for what it is... the cops did good and are doing a little bragging. Getting THOSE weapons out of their hands is a good thing. I'm OK as long as the story is factual (ie not calling everything an "assault rifle"). I don't think it hurts our cause to admit that criminals possess and use firearms. I think we have to deal with reality.

And again you are right on.
I find it self defeating how many here just absolutely cannot admit that sometimes...especially when owned by criminals some firearms should be off the street.

[Newview01]

Originally Posted by bobtodrick

And again you are right on.
I find it self defeating how many here just absolutely cannot admit that sometimes...especially when owned by criminals some firearms should be off the street.

No we should not focus on the firearm ownership by criminals, but we should focus on the lack of firearm ownership by the general public. Then one would take care of the other.

[Scott N]

Originally Posted by bobtodrick

And again you are right on.
I find it self defeating how many here just absolutely cannot admit that sometimes...especially when owned by criminals some firearms should be off the street.

No firearm should "be on the street", and criminals don't own these firearms from the article. They are simply collateral stolen property from a criminal lifestyle. They stole them. End of story. That's what addicts do, steal to support their habit. The guns are valuable..... targets of opportunity, pardon the pun.

Kudos to the police for catching the criminals, and hopefully returning the stolen property. The police don't need to put then all on display and pretend to be heroes though.

[bobtodrick]

Originally Posted by Scott N

No firearm should "be on the street", and criminals don't own these firearms from the article. They are simply collateral stolen property from a criminal lifestyle. They stole them. End of story. That's what addicts do, steal to support their habit. The guns are valuable..... targets of opportunity, pardon the pun.

Kudos to the police for catching the criminals, and hopefully returning the stolen property. The police don't need to put then all on display and pretend to be heroes though.

Blah, blah, blah...I'm done!

[roper1]

Originally Posted by kevinhits

I for one understand the point you were making....

x2

[brendan's dad]

Originally Posted by Scott N

No firearm should "be on the street", and criminals don't own these firearms from the article. They are simply collateral stolen property from a criminal lifestyle. They stole them. End of story. That's what addicts do, steal to support their habit. The guns are valuable..... targets of opportunity, pardon the pun.

Kudos to the police for catching the criminals, and hopefully returning the stolen property. The police don't need to put then all on display and pretend to be heroes though.

Pretending to be a hero as a police officer probably adds more value to society then being an actual “internet hero”!

[Trochu]

Originally Posted by roper1

x2

x3.

A neighbors house was broken into, cops were called, which resulted in a rifle being confiscated and the resulting news article about how a gun was "taken off the street", well, from their bedroom closet behind their clothes anyway....

[Scott N]

Originally Posted by brendan's dad

Pretending to be a hero as a police officer probably adds more value to society then being an actual “internet hero”!

My goodness, is that a personal attack?

[elkhunter11]

At least I didn't see those firearms being referred to as assault rifles, a term the media seems to enjoy using, even if it is usually in error.

[Xbolt7mm]

Originally Posted by Tom Pullings

I apologize but your assertion that criminals don’t use bolt actions is ludicrous. Yes smaller weapons are more desirable being easier to conceal and hide from law enforcement but these guys will use anything they can get their hands on. Even pellet guns.

I don’t think it’s ludicrous at all. I think for every article you can find that involves a crime committed with a bolt action rifle you will find hundreds committed by a criminal with a handgun or semi auto rifle of some kind, usually a black gun. Now if they sold the bolt actions and bought more drugs or other weapons that would easily be more believable than using them to commit a crime with. I don’t think either of the gentleman that you disagreed with are far off line at all. Now if they were caught in the act of stealing them and they had ammo,,,,, I have no problem with the police on any force showing/talking about their successes as there sure is lots of people stepping up to talk about their perceived failures.

[Tom Pullings]

Originally Posted by Xbolt7mm

I don’t think it’s ludicrous at all. I think for every article you can find that involves a crime committed with a bolt action rifle you will find hundreds committed by a criminal with a handgun or semi auto rifle of some kind, usually a black gun. Now if they sold the bolt actions and bought more drugs or other weapons that would easily be more believable than using them to commit a crime with. I don’t think either of the gentleman that you disagreed with are far off line at all. Now if they were caught in the act of stealing them and they had ammo,,,,,

1 - I only recall disagreeing with one person. Unless you now count yourself as the second.

2 - If you legitimately think criminals don’t use stolen bolt action guns for illegal purposes there is no sense in discussing the matter further.


A general thought. Only in today’s society would the discussion turn to somehow blaming the police for displaying the type of guns seized. The police can’t really control what guns will be found. How about we celebrate the win for law abiding citizens now that several guns are out of drug dealer hands.

[Xbolt7mm]

Originally Posted by Scott N

No firearm should "be on the street", and criminals don't own these firearms from the article. They are simply collateral stolen property from a criminal lifestyle. They stole them. End of story. That's what addicts do, steal to support their habit. The guns are valuable..... targets of opportunity, pardon the pun.

Kudos to the police for catching the criminals, and hopefully returning the stolen property. The police don't need to put then all on display and pretend to be heroes though.

X1

[Xbolt7mm]

Originally Posted by Tom Pullings

1 - I only recall disagreeing with one person. Unless you now count yourself as the second.

2 - If you legitimately think criminals don’t use stolen bolt action guns for illegal purposes there is no sense in discussing the matter further.


A general thought. Only in today’s society would the discussion turn to somehow blaming the police for displaying the type of guns seized. The police can’t really control what guns will be found. How about we celebrate the win for law abiding citizens now that several guns are out of drug dealer hands.

Go back and read my post,,,,slowly,,,, this time. I said they can be used but the possibility is far more remote than other types of guns. I also clearly said I agree with any police force celebrating a win. Your just looking to argue with someone

[Tom Pullings]

Originally Posted by Xbolt7mm

Go back and read my post,,,,slowly,,,, this time. I said they can be used but the possibility is far more remote than other types of guns. I also clearly said I agree with any police force celebrating a win. Your just looking to argue with someone

Ok bud.

[brendan's dad]

Originally Posted by Scott N

My goodness, is that a personal attack?

I don't know, do you view yourself as an "internet hero"?

[58thecat]

Time out.....go to your corners....face the wall....time out.

[vcmm]

Originally Posted by Tom Pullings

1 - I only recall disagreeing with one person. Unless you now count yourself as the second.

2 - If you legitimately think criminals don’t use stolen bolt action guns for illegal purposes there is no sense in discussing the matter further.


A general thought. Only in today’s society would the discussion turn to somehow blaming the police for displaying the type of guns seized. The police can’t really control what guns will be found. How about we celebrate the win for law abiding citizens now that several guns are out of drug dealer hands.

Remember High River?? ^^^^

[Bushrat]

Originally Posted by Tom Pullings

2 - If you legitimately think criminals don’t use stolen bolt action guns for illegal purposes there is no sense in discussing the matter further.

Sure occasionally bolt guns are used in the commission of a crime. But most hunting type guns are stolen because they happen to be in the house or vehicle they break into, are easy to sell for quick cash to hunters and shooters who knowingly or unknowingly wont turn down an unrealistic deal. Thieves view hunting guns no differently than they view a lap top, x-box, chainsaw, cellphones, tools, whatever, they are goods they can easily get rid of in exchange for quick cash. I don't worry much about those type of guns on the black market, the ones I worry about are the ones stolen from a targeted individual who has a collection of restricted handguns and assault rifles or gun shop that is directly targeted and only handguns and assault rifles stolen, while the bolt rifles and double barreled shotguns are left on the rack.

[Scott N]

I agree with you Bushrat.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by Bushrat

Sure occasionally bolt guns are used in the commission of a crime. But most hunting type guns are stolen because they happen to be in the house or vehicle they break into, are easy to sell for quick cash to hunters and shooters who knowingly or unknowingly wont turn down an unrealistic deal. Thieves view hunting guns no differently than they view a lap top, x-box, chainsaw, cellphones, tools, whatever, they are goods they can easily get rid of in exchange for quick cash. I don't worry much about those type of guns on the black market, the ones I worry about are the ones stolen from a targeted individual who has a collection of restricted handguns and assault rifles or gun shop that is directly targeted and only handguns and assault rifles stolen, while the bolt rifles and double barreled shotguns are left on the rack.

The most accurate post on this thread.

[Au revoir, Gopher]

from http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/85-002-.../11925-eng.htm

Some types of firearms are present more frequently than others in violent crimes. Of all violent crimes where a firearm was present in 2012, the majority (57%) involved handguns (Table 2). In addition, a rifle or shotgun was present in 16% of firearm-related violent offences, and 4% involved another type of firearm.4 In the remaining 23%, a firearm-like weapon, such as a pellet gun or flare gun, or an unknown type of firearm, was present.

ARG

[coastalhunter]

Good thing you can't buy "assault rifles" in Canada then.

[wags]

Originally Posted by Scott N

You are right sir, and I am happy that these people are off the street. I can live without the propaganda and the pictures of table full of stolen property though, and the self congratulations and pats on the back from the RCMP as if this was doing something towards "gun crime", and not just simple stolen property.

Actually, I believe that display was more of a City of Red Deer thing, as the Mayor gave a speech at it, and as a resident, I WANT to see tables full of guns on display to show me the excellent work they do and what's off the streets where my children play.

But thank you. You don't want to celebrate good wins.

[lannie]

Originally Posted by kevinhits

I for one understand the point you were making....

x4

[HyperMOA]

Originally Posted by Scott N

I'm glad that people have the chance of getting their stolen property back, but I hate when the RCMP put a bunch of firearms on display, and in this case mostly scoped bolt action rifles, and claim that they're "getting guns off the streets".

I think I'm about x7 now. I know what you were trying to say too. The REAL internet heroes seem to not understand what you were trying to say though.

Good on the RCMP, for their actions.

I feel sorry for the public that think they are any safer because a Savage Axis is off the streets. Pull a MAC10 off the street or an M&P9 and I will celebrate public safety being increased.

Or even the scourge of the criminal underworld; the revered Marlin Super Goose 10 Bolt action.

[wags]

Originally Posted by HyperMOA

I think I'm about x7 now. I know what you were trying to say too. The REAL internet heroes seem to not understand what you were trying to say though.

I'll take the bait on this one.

I know what he was trying to say. I don't agree. I think the RCMP should celebrate wins. I think the media should report big busts, regardless of what weapon you consider to be dangerous or not. In this case, even if EVERY gun is stolen, then celebrate that some gun owners might get their possessions back. Either way, the constant berating of the RCMP is old and tiring, and in this case, completely unwarranted.

If this makes me a REAL internet hero as you put it, then I'll wear the cape. I'm proud as a resident of Red Deer to see this. I'm proud to read it. I'm happy that they're glad they made such a huge bust. And as a REAL internet hero, why wouldn't I defend them when they're being attacked for doing a good thing?

Cheers

[coastalhunter]

Originally Posted by wags

I'll take the bait on this one.

I know what he was trying to say. I don't agree. I think the RCMP should celebrate wins. I think the media should report big busts, regardless of what weapon you consider to be dangerous or not. In this case, even if EVERY gun is stolen, then celebrate that some gun owners might get their possessions back. Either way, the constant berating of the RCMP is old and tiring, and in this case, completely unwarranted.

If this makes me a REAL internet hero as you put it, then I'll wear the cape. I'm proud as a resident of Red Deer to see this. I'm proud to read it. I'm happy that they're glad they made such a huge bust. And as a REAL internet hero, why wouldn't I defend them when they're being attacked for doing a good thing?

Cheers

Except they'll turn around and bust a farmer for his cooey and play it up like no tomorrow.

[brendan's dad]

Here a little exercise for everyone. First article shows over 1300 guns stolen in RCMP jurisdictions (Calgary, Edmonton, Lethbridge, Medicine Hat not included) in 2015. More non-restricted were stolen than restricted. For those of you that think thieves then list these gun for sale to law abiding gun owners on such site as CGN and AOF, please use link 2 to search all the used non-restricted rifles you have purchased. If any of you can come up with 1 example of a stolen firearm that you purchased here or on CGN, please let us know.

Non-restricted firearms alike the ones seized in Red Deer are being modified and sold for criminal use, end of story. Yes, center fire bolt actions of higher calibers are less desirable because you once you saw the barrel and rear stock, it is quite unpleasant to shoot. But pump shotguns, single shot shotguns, and all rimfires are commonly sawed and found during criminal search warrants. Some non-restricted rifles may be sold for hunting purposes to persons that are unauthorized to possess a firearm, but that would be an exception to the rule as opposed to the norm.

http://edmontonjournal.com/news/loca...ng-stolen-guns

http://www.cpic-cipc.ca/index-eng.htm

I find it hard to believe that there would any negative comments about the Police arresting thieves and preventing them from selling these guns to other criminals.

Some people will find fault in everything the Police do whether it is stopping a terrorist attack or going for a coffee break. Makes me wonder whether these persons are criminals themselves or hold some type of grudge because they applied for the Police and were rejected.

[HyperMOA]

Originally Posted by wags

I'll take the bait on this one.

I know what he was trying to say. I don't agree. I think the RCMP should celebrate wins. I think the media should report big busts, regardless of what weapon you consider to be dangerous or not. In this case, even if EVERY gun is stolen, then celebrate that some gun owners might get their possessions back. Either way, the constant berating of the RCMP is old and tiring, and in this case, completely unwarranted.

If this makes me a REAL internet hero as you put it, then I'll wear the cape. I'm proud as a resident of Red Deer to see this. I'm proud to read it. I'm happy that they're glad they made such a huge bust. And as a REAL internet hero, why wouldn't I defend them when they're being attacked for doing a good thing?

Cheers

No you don't know what he was trying to say. You think you do, but you don't. There in lies the problem. You are not listening to what he has said at all, but you berate him because he doesn't blindly follow you and cheer-lead for the RCMP.

He never said the RCMP did a bad job that I noticed. He openly said good job. He never belittled their work. He said good job. He never said he was unhappy with the fact that stolen rifles left the hands of criminals. He said it was a good thing. What he said was he disagreed with the notion that getting a bunch of hunting rifles has improved public safety. It hasn't. A well placed road cone will do more for public safety than those rifles "getting off the streets". Had they been a firearm prevalent with armed robbery, home invasion, or gang related use I for one would say it improves public safety. I am the public, I feel no safer. If you do, as I said, I feel sorry for you.

As for the internet hero comment, that was more referencing the internet hero that coined the term in this thread. Reading my past post it says anyone that disagrees with him. I'm sorry for that. That was poor word-smithing on my part.

As said before, great job RCMP. Glad some criminals will now get a free ride in our legal system and be back on the streets in 4 days. That makes me feel SOOOOO much safer than the fact that they had bolt action rifles.

Do you see what I'm alluding to?