Boaters be diligent

[Red Bullets]

Boaters.. please be diligent on keeping your boat clean or this will be Alberta in 20 years. Look at lake winnipeg now.

Please even consider cleaning your boats before you jump from local lake to local lake. This is how invasive species might spread.

http://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada...=mailsignoutmd

[PerchBuster]

I do agree 100% but I can also say from firsthand experience that the mussels probably saved Lake Erie, the Niagara River and Lake Ontario. They were cesspools in the 70's/80's. Huge algae blooms that stunk to the high heavens, chemicals, toxins etc and the mussels have cleaned it up tremendously. Anyone ever hear of the Love Canal in Niagara Falls NY? It was at the time an environmental disaster that polluted the Niagara River and Lake Ontario. It wiped out the Nesting communities of Bald Eagles and Peregrine Falcons there because their eggshells were too soft and would break apart under the weight of the nesting mothers. Zebra Mussels have fixed most of that problem through filtration and the fishery has flourished and the Eagles and falcons are back and nesting again finally. In fact, the fishery in those 2 lakes and the River may actually be better now than they ever were and the water quality has really improved. You can count stones on the bottom in 50 ft of water. Aside from these benefits there are also major problems with them like plugging up outflows from power plants and so on but as a fisherman I can say they have had a real positive effect. Who knows what will happen with Lake Winnipeg but it might not be all that bad. Having witnessed the state of Pigeon Lake this summer it sure reminded me of a day at the beach on Lake Erie long ago! Too bad we couldn't temporarily put some mussels in there to clean it up too!

[CDNPiper]

I'm not an expert on mussel infestations, but I don't think that the mussels are solely responsible for the cleanliness of the great lakes since the 70's and 80's. There are many other factors at play and from everything I've read the mussels are indeed a pest and I have to place trust in those that know more than I do about the fisheries. I sure hope we don't see them here and I'll do my part to ensure that.

[Brandonkop]

I agree 100% with perch buster! From everything I've read the water quality in the great Lakes is better than ever and this has been attributed to the zebra muscles from a scientific perspective. Also from everything I read fishing is better than ever there.

Even though I have heard so much doom and gloom over this zebra muscle it seems there is no actual stated negative effect on the fisheries. I mean just look at lake winnipeg.... the walleye are bigger than ever since the introduction of the muscles.

They always say it will cause millions of dollars of damage but this is only in relation to infrastructure. Clogging pipes, dams, turbines and so on. Let those companies collapse... they are the ones who have destroyed our natural environment!!! Dams and hydroelectric destroy far more fisheries than zebra muscles ever will.

Too tell you the truth our lakes have been having terrible algae blooms and winterkills because of too much nutrients from farm fertilizer and animal waste run off. Our lakes probably would be healthier and cleaner with some filter feeders.

Now by all means keep your boats cleaned, drained and dry before you take it from one body of water to another. We should always avoid transporting invasive species.

Just don't believe the experts on everything.... after all there hasn't been a collapse on the great Lakes and they have been there for some 20 plus years I believe. They will tell you what they want you to believe and keep quietc what they don't want you to hear.

Over and over research has shown fish farms are not sustainable and destroying wild fish stocks.... canada fires those scientists. You don't hear an outcry about fish farms because it makes money.

[huntsfurfish]

Originally Posted by Brandonkop

I agree 100% with perch buster! From everything I've read the water quality in the great Lakes is better than ever and this has been attributed to the zebra muscles from a scientific perspective. Also from everything I read fishing is better than ever there.

Even though I have heard so much doom and gloom over this zebra muscle it seems there is no actual stated negative effect on the fisheries. I mean just look at lake winnipeg.... the walleye are bigger than ever since the introduction of the muscles.

They always say it will cause millions of dollars of damage but this is only in relation to infrastructure. Clogging pipes, dams, turbines and so on. Let those companies collapse... they are the ones who have destroyed our natural environment!!! Dams and hydroelectric destroy far more fisheries than zebra muscles ever will.

Too tell you the truth our lakes have been having terrible algae blooms and winterkills because of too much nutrients from farm fertilizer and animal waste run off. Our lakes probably would be healthier and cleaner with some filter feeders.

Now by all means keep your boats cleaned, drained and dry before you take it from one body of water to another. We should always avoid transporting invasive species.

Just don't believe the experts on everything.... after all there hasn't been a collapse on the great Lakes and they have been there for some 20 plus years I believe. They will tell you what they want you to believe and keep quietc what they don't want you to hear.

Over and over research has shown fish farms are not sustainable and destroying wild fish stocks.... canada fires those scientists. You don't hear an outcry about fish farms because it makes money.

[Red Bullets]

Thanks for the responses. Interesting perspectives which may be true.
One thing to consider.. our smaller prairie lakes cannot be compared to the great lakes. Two totally different types and sizes of environments.

Alberta already has 5 species of large clams/mussels and 20 species of fingernail clams. Each of our our lakes, rivers and streams already have many tons of native clams and mussels. What happens to all those species habitats?
Does an invasive species not compete for the same habitat?

footnote:
Next time you catch a perch or walleye take a look on their fins, you might find a species called Anodonta. The fish host the glochidia of Anodonta (babies) on their fins. The fish help distribute them around the waterbody.
The anodonta eventually fall off the host and continue to grow into a large clam. The clams Then the muskrats and mink feast on the adult clams. This is part of the ecosystem.

I still think our aquatic ecosystems may be compromised by an invasive species like zebra mussels.

[huntsfurfish]

Originally Posted by Red Bullets

Thanks for the responses. Interesting perspectives which may be true.
One thing to consider.. our smaller prairie lakes cannot be compared to the great lakes. Two totally different types and sizes of environments.

Alberta already has 5 species of large clams/mussels and 20 species of fingernail clams. Each of our our lakes, rivers and streams already have many tons of native clams and mussels. What happens to all those species habitats?
Does an invasive species not compete for the same habitat?

footnote:
Next time you catch a perch or walleye take a look on their fins, you might find a species called Anodonta. The fish host the glochidia of Anodonta (babies) on their fins. The fish help distribute them around the waterbody.
The anodonta eventually fall off the host and continue to grow into a large clam. The clams Then the muskrats and mink feast on the adult clams. This is part of the ecosystem.

I still think our aquatic ecosystems may be compromised by an invasive species like zebra mussels.

No doubt about it!

[Walleyedude]

Originally Posted by Brandonkop

I agree 100% with perch buster! From everything I've read the water quality in the great Lakes is better than ever and this has been attributed to the zebra muscles from a scientific perspective. Also from everything I read fishing is better than ever there.

Even though I have heard so much doom and gloom over this zebra muscle it seems there is no actual stated negative effect on the fisheries. I mean just look at lake winnipeg.... the walleye are bigger than ever since the introduction of the muscles.

They always say it will cause millions of dollars of damage but this is only in relation to infrastructure. Clogging pipes, dams, turbines and so on. Let those companies collapse... they are the ones who have destroyed our natural environment!!! Dams and hydroelectric destroy far more fisheries than zebra muscles ever will.

Too tell you the truth our lakes have been having terrible algae blooms and winterkills because of too much nutrients from farm fertilizer and animal waste run off. Our lakes probably would be healthier and cleaner with some filter feeders.

Now by all means keep your boats cleaned, drained and dry before you take it from one body of water to another. We should always avoid transporting invasive species.

Just don't believe the experts on everything.... after all there hasn't been a collapse on the great Lakes and they have been there for some 20 plus years I believe. They will tell you what they want you to believe and keep quietc what they don't want you to hear.

Seriously?????????????

[Brandonkop]

Originally Posted by Walleyedude

Seriously?????????????

Is this a response showing the extent of how uninformed you are? Or how shocked you are at my comments? Seems like a relatively elementary response since my comment covered several issues.

Trust me I'm more familiar with this issue than most Albertans. I've been living in California for the last ten years where we have had mandatory boat inspections and decontamination stations prior to entering any lake, paying an invasive aquatic species surcharge with registration. They are way ahead of Canada, yet now they have been found in the Colorado Rivers lake Powell despite all the checks. I brought my boat across the boarder twice and a kayak once into canada. Neither were checked or even asked where the boats were last in the water. Fortunately I heard they stopped several heavily infested boats on the bc boarder this summer. But how many get through without recognition?

I agree with stricter enforcement, keeping boats clean, drained and dry. Which I said in my initial comment to help prevent the spread of invasive species.

It's just a matter of time though before they make it into our lakes.

Maybe you are aware of something I haven't heard. Please share the fisheries destroyed by the zebra muscle or explain the seriously comment.

If you haven't you should all watch the documentary DAMNATION. Maybe you'll see where I'm coming from when it comes to trusting governments to be concerned about conservation.

[dodger]

Pretty soon we will be able to go fishing and come home with a crayfish / mussel bounty for steaming.

Dodger.

[Ronbill]

We've had over a dozen mussel fouled boats come in to Alberta from out east and BC. Couple of the boats from BC into our Province had marine mussels attached that likely couldn't live in freshwater - not potentially invasive zebra or quagga mussels. It has primarily been boats originating in Ontario and Manitoba (Lake Winnipeg) coming in across the Sask borders that are harboring the invasive mussel species.

While you may consider us here in Canada behind California, remember that for us in Alberta our is a proactive program to prevent the introduction of invasive mussels and not a reactive to program to address the management of already infested waters and the further spread of mussels to other waters. We have made great strides in Alberta in the our program took off in the late winter of 2013. I can also report that we have yet to find any indication of the presence of zebra or quagga in Alberta lakes monitored over the past three summers.

I also will comment that the impact of invasive mussel in the great lakes is not as glorious and rosy as some on here may suggest and profess. Yes zebra mussels have had an impact in increasing water clarity (transparency) by filter feeding the small planktonic forms that often cause surface algal blooms. However, the increasing water transparency has resulted in a shift of nutrients (primarily phosphorus) from the pelagic (off-shore open water) regions of the lake to the littoral benthic (shallow bottom sediments) zone.
With greater water transparency, more sunlight will penetrate the water column deeper and will allow attached benthic forms of toxic blue green algae and large filamentous green algae to grow over a greater area. So while there may be fewer surface water blooms of algae, the lakes are experiencing larger blooms of attached algae near shore. In addition, it is a known fact that while zebra and quagga mussels are indiscriminate filter feeders, they are incapable of digesting large colonial species of blue-green algae - many of which produce potent liver and /or neuro toxins. So in effect, the choice and harmless forms of planktonic algae (including green algae, diatoms etc) are preferentially removed from the ecosystem leaving more nutrients available for the growth of toxic blue-greens.


What is clear is that the ecosystem changes are not as simple and positive as some may think.

[Walleyedude]

Originally Posted by Brandonkop

Is this a response showing the extent of how uninformed you are? Or how shocked you are at my comments? Seems like a relatively elementary response since my comment covered several issues.

Trust me I'm more familiar with this issue than most Albertans. I've been living in California for the last ten years where we have had mandatory boat inspections and decontamination stations prior to entering any lake, paying an invasive aquatic species surcharge with registration. They are way ahead of Canada, yet now they have been found in the Colorado Rivers lake Powell despite all the checks. I brought my boat across the boarder twice and a kayak once into canada. Neither were checked or even asked where the boats were last in the water. Fortunately I heard they stopped several heavily infested boats on the bc boarder this summer. But how many get through without recognition?

I agree with stricter enforcement, keeping boats clean, drained and dry. Which I said in my initial comment to help prevent the spread of invasive species.

It's just a matter of time though before they make it into our lakes.

Maybe you are aware of something I haven't heard. Please share the fisheries destroyed by the zebra muscle or explain the seriously comment.

If you haven't you should all watch the documentary DAMNATION. Maybe you'll see where I'm coming from when it comes to trusting governments to be concerned about conservation.

Definitely shock. Shocked that someone who claims to be informed and pro environment would post something like that. I'm still in shock. I stay out of these online peeing contests these days, but that post was just too much.

There was an old lady who swallowed a fly... Swallowing a spider is not going to solve our problems.

It's reckless and uninformed to suggest a mussel infestation in AB wouldn't be negative, let alone suggest it would be a positive. Our southern lakes are irrigation reservoirs and our central lakes are largely closed basins. It would be devastating and massively expensive. AB isn't the Great Lakes, and mussels are only part of the equation in those fisheries. Furthermore, there's a lot more at stake than the fisheries.

To suggest it's inevitable so we might as well embrace it is a complete logical fallacy, and not something I'll ever buy into.

You're a doctor apparently, an expert in your field, should we just ignore your advice on medical issues? Take off the tin foil hat...

[Red Bullets]

Excellent info Ronbill

[Red Bullets]

Originally Posted by Walleyedude

There was an old lady who swallowed a fly... Swallowing a spider is not going to solve our problems.

It's reckless and uninformed to suggest a mussel infestation in AB wouldn't be negative, let alone suggest it would be a positive. Our southern lakes are irrigation reservoirs and our central lakes are largely closed basins. It would be devastating and massively expensive. AB isn't the Great Lakes, and mussels are only part of the equation in those fisheries. Furthermore, there's a lot more at stake than the fisheries.

To suggest it's inevitable so we might as well embrace it is a complete logical fallacy, and not something I'll ever buy into.

You're a doctor apparently, an expert in your field, should we just ignore your advice on medical issues? Take off the tin foil hat...

Funny, I was going to use the same comparison to the lady who swallowed a fly...So true.

[huntsfurfish]

Originally Posted by Ronbill

We've had over a dozen mussel fouled boats come in to Alberta from out east and BC. Couple of the boats from BC into our Province had marine mussels attached that likely couldn't live in freshwater - not potentially invasive zebra or quagga mussels. It has primarily been boats originating in Ontario and Manitoba (Lake Winnipeg) coming in across the Sask borders that are harboring the invasive mussel species.

While you may consider us here in Canada behind California, remember that for us in Alberta our is a proactive program to prevent the introduction of invasive mussels and not a reactive to program to address the management of already infested waters and the further spread of mussels to other waters. We have made great strides in Alberta in the our program took off in the late winter of 2013. I can also report that we have yet to find any indication of the presence of zebra or quagga in Alberta lakes monitored over the past three summers.

I also will comment that the impact of invasive mussel in the great lakes is not as glorious and rosy as some on here may suggest and profess. Yes zebra mussels have had an impact in increasing water clarity (transparency) by filter feeding the small planktonic forms that often cause surface algal blooms. However, the increasing water transparency has resulted in a shift of nutrients (primarily phosphorus) from the pelagic (off-shore open water) regions of the lake to the littoral benthic (shallow bottom sediments) zone.
With greater water transparency, more sunlight will penetrate the water column deeper and will allow attached benthic forms of toxic blue green algae and large filamentous green algae to grow over a greater area. So while there may be fewer surface water blooms of algae, the lakes are experiencing larger blooms of attached algae near shore. In addition, it is a known fact that while zebra and quagga mussels are indiscriminate filter feeders, they are incapable of digesting large colonial species of blue-green algae - many of which produce potent liver and /or neuro toxins. So in effect, the choice and harmless forms of planktonic algae (including green algae, diatoms etc) are preferentially removed from the ecosystem leaving more nutrients available for the growth of toxic blue-greens.


What is clear is that the ecosystem changes are not as simple and positive as some may think.

Agree and thanks for posting!

[Brandonkop]

Thanks for the information Ronbill.

Thanks for your reply walleyedude. I think we both want the same thing.... for zebra muscles never to enter alberta lakes. I'm a 100% for inspections and whatever it takes to keep em out.

Whatever I was saying was a matter of observation and oppinion. No scientific data to back it up.

Medicine has taught me to be a realist. To expect the expected. Muscles are being spread across North America despite our best efforts or not. It's coming just like the pine beetle and every other invasive species. Just takes one missed boat.

[thumper]

Brandon, my experience and outlook mirrors yours. While I applaud efforts to keep invasive mussels out of Alberta waters, in the long run I believe their establishment to be inevitable. All it takes is one infested boat to get through.
My own families 30 year experience at the family cottage on a mid-sized lake in southern Ontario also mirrors your outlook. With ever increasing use, the lake would become cloudy and soupy over the summer, but since the zebra mussels came, it's become much, much clearer. On the plus side, weedbeds, water insects, fish population, bird population, water snakes and all wildlife diversity have all increased noticeably, swimming is more pleasurable and the kids now love snorkelling, because they can see underwater! Most cottages pull their drinking water from the lake, and cleaner water is easier on their filter and UV systems. On the downside, water intakes need more frequent cleaning from mussel infestation. At the beginning of the 'invasion' you couldn't wade in the water without shoes on, or you would cut your feet. Also, any crawfish that you saw was heavily incrusted with mussels so their population went down. But now, some sort of balance has been achieved, you can once again wade barefoot, and the crawfish might have a couple of mussels on them (or not).
I think of Alberta and her pheasants, huns, rainbow, brown and brookie trout, invasive species, and think of how fortunate we are to have them - but I'm not an eco-zealot who thinks that all things should be 'pre-white-man' to be natural.
Sure, I hope we avoid zebra mussels as long as we can, but they won't be the end of the world and ridiculing the benefits is doing a disservice to the discussion.

[thumper]

Brandon, my experience and outlook mirrors yours. While I applaud efforts to keep invasive mussels out of Alberta waters, in the long run I believe their establishment to be inevitable. All it takes is one infested boat to get through.
My own families 30 year experience at the family cottage on a mid-sized lake in southern Ontario also mirrors your outlook. With ever increasing use, the lake would become cloudy and soupy over the summer, but since the zebra mussels came, it's become much, much clearer. On the plus side, weedbeds, water insects, fish population, bird population, water snakes and all wildlife diversity have all increased noticeably, swimming is more pleasurable and the kids now love snorkelling, because they can see underwater! Most cottages pull their drinking water from the lake, and cleaner water is easier on their filter and UV systems. On the downside, water intakes need more frequent cleaning from mussel infestation. At the beginning of the 'invasion' you couldn't wade in the water without shoes on, or you would cut your feet. Also, any crawfish that you saw was heavily incrusted with mussels so their population went down. But now, some sort of balance has been achieved, you can once again wade barefoot, and the crawfish might have a couple of mussels on them (or not).
I think of Alberta and her pheasants, huns, rainbow, brown and brookie trout, invasive species, and think of how fortunate we are to have them - but I'm not an eco-zealot who thinks that all things should be 'pre-white-man' to be natural.
Sure, I hope we avoid zebra mussels as long as we can, but they won't be the end of the world and ridiculing the benefits is doing a disservice to the discussion.

[Brandonkop]

Thanks thumper for your experience and that is what I think will happen since that is how populations seem work. Supply, demand and exhaustion of food sources. These things can't grow on indefinitely filling the whole lake if they don't have sufficient nutrients. Thanks again for the first hand experience. Where science models fail, real world experience prevails.

[Penner]

Just because the water is crystal clear does not make it clean!