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10-01-2015, 08:34 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Central Alberta
Posts: 1,796
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Holes in ice are illegal unless...
Section 263(a) of the Criminal Code of Canada says
. (1) Every one who makes or causes to be made an opening in ice that is open to or frequented by the public is under a legal duty to guard it in a manner that is adequate to prevent persons from falling in by accident and is adequate to warn them that the opening exists.
Folks, we ran into this issue dealing with lake aeration systems.
Do note there are penalties for both injury and/or death.
Just a heads up. I suspect that every enforcement person in Alberta is now aware due to a court case.
Due diligence is not an option. Guard it & sign it or face the consequences.
Don
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10-01-2015, 08:57 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: WMU 108
Posts: 6,308
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Does the law state anything about size of the hole ? Sure I can believe it about an aeration operation , but an ice fishing hole ?
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10-01-2015, 09:00 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 11,374
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Quote:
Originally Posted by H380
Does the law state anything about size of the hole ? Sure I can believe it about an aeration operation , but an ice fishing hole ?
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Pretty sure a small child could disappear down a 10" hole. Guys are doubling and tripling up their holes to get a better view. Small kid will go down one of those for sure.
__________________
“One of the sad signs of our times is that we have demonized those who produce, subsidized those who refuse to produce, and canonized those who complain.”
Thomas Sowell
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10-01-2015, 09:10 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: edmonton
Posts: 11,434
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In the latest newsletter from the Edmonton Trout Club it states that aeration will probably stop this winter at Spring lake.
Have a very bad feeling for a lot of the smaller stocked lakes that depend on aeration to prevent winter kills.
Worst of all though, it seems like even drilling a single hole in the ice to fish through could land you into serious trouble.
Personally, I think it's just more BS from our nanny state. At the same time, you'd think they could come up with some sort of fencing or flagging that would satisfy the legal requirements.
Last edited by waterninja; 10-01-2015 at 09:19 PM.
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10-01-2015, 10:06 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Central Alberta
Posts: 1,796
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Folks,
Have talked to a number of folks that makes holes in land for various reasons. W/O exception, the holes are barracaded with wire panels.
The code cited uses the exact same wording EXCEPT for changing ice to land.
Don
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10-02-2015, 03:42 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Calgary
Posts: 1,481
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So if you fill the hole with snow and ice. Is it still a hole?
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10-02-2015, 05:20 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: At the end of the Thirsty Beaver Trail, Pinsky lake, Alberta.
Posts: 24,620
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigdad013
So if you fill the hole with snow and ice. Is it still a hole?
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Nope.
__________________
Be careful when you follow the masses, sometimes the "M" is silent...
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10-02-2015, 07:28 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: WMU 108
Posts: 6,308
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pikergolf
Pretty sure a small child could disappear down a 10" hole. Guys are doubling and tripling up their holes to get a better view. Small kid will go down one of those for sure.
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I believe that piker , thats the very reason I wont allow my grandkids fishing with me . I use only an eight inch auger and with some melting I'm sure it could happen with it as well .
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10-02-2015, 07:51 AM
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 11,858
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So ..... because of the potential liability of some reckless or careless individuals no trout lakes will be aerated causing all the fish to winter kill because he/she might sue .....
Maybe we should blunt the points of knives too.
Too bad we have become so vulnerable/accepting to stupid litigation like the silly Americans.
I have an idea - maybe one of you can volunteer so I could spill some hot coffee on your crotch so you can get burned - we can both split the money.
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10-02-2015, 11:31 AM
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Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 222
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EZM
So ..... because of the potential liability of some reckless or careless individuals no trout lakes will be aerated causing all the fish to winter kill because he/she might sue .....
Maybe we should blunt the points of knives too.
Too bad we have become so vulnerable/accepting to stupid litigation like the silly Americans.
I have an idea - maybe one of you can volunteer so I could spill some hot coffee on your crotch so you can get burned - we can both split the money.
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Always love your comments here EZM, but I can confidently say I won't be going anywhere near your crotch!
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10-02-2015, 11:36 AM
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Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 1,783
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Andersen
Section 263(a) of the Criminal Code of Canada says
. (1) Every one who makes or causes to be made an opening in ice that is open to or frequented by the public is under a legal duty to guard it in a manner that is adequate to prevent persons from falling in by accident and is adequate to warn them that the opening exists.
Folks, we ran into this issue dealing with lake aeration systems.
Do note there are penalties for both injury and/or death.
Just a heads up. I suspect that every enforcement person in Alberta is now aware due to a court case.
Due diligence is not an option. Guard it & sign it or face the consequences.
Don
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I wonder how this will impact derbies, tournaments and events like the fishing hole family fun Ice Fishing Day..
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10-02-2015, 12:19 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 1,484
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This is rediculous... As far as ice fishing holes, i have taken my sons fishing since they were 1 and yes, they could easily fall in, but there is no way they would go through. Double triple hole maybe.. This is what the world is coming to and it is sad to see... Hope the aration continues, and keep some of these lakes alive..
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10-02-2015, 12:24 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 17,790
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I make sure all my ice fishing holes are filled to the top with water before leaving them.
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10-02-2015, 12:33 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Look behind you :)
Posts: 27,780
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Every time I go ice fishing I end up surround by ice holes...if we took the ice holes out of fishing we would be better off....ban the ice holes! I say! Ban them!
LC
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10-02-2015, 01:27 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 1,783
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rugatika
I make sure all my ice fishing holes are filled to the top with water before leaving them.
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Me too.
It is a safe practice....
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10-02-2015, 02:47 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Southern Alberta
Posts: 1,777
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Near zero chance this pertains to ice fishing.
Quote:
is under a legal duty to guard it in a manner that is adequate to prevent persons from falling in by accident and is adequate to warn them that the opening exists.
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The argument can easily be made that by standing close to the holes, or having tip-ups in the holes, you are "guarding" it sufficiently.
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10-02-2015, 04:58 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: NW Calgary
Posts: 142
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I'm buying a 30" Auger to hopefully catch a few lawmakers - give me strength.
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10-02-2015, 06:27 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: edmonton
Posts: 832
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There's been quite a new trend with everyone wanting 10 inch augers. I was thinking about this last year, having kids I opted for a 8 inch eskimo. It gets a little scary with these sort of holes getting bigger an bigger. Soon the coolest guy will have a 30 in auger. Or worse chainsaw. There should be fines or something in place for guys like this in the future. Maybe stopping any more size than what we deal with now before it does become a issue.
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10-02-2015, 09:07 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 562
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There's no way this alleged law can pertain to ice fishing. Ice augers are highly commercialized. Augured holes freeze back up pretty quickly. Unenforceable law I think too. Are f&w now going to be going around to see if everybody caged up there ice holes. Nope. Everybody is out there at their own risk. I've never fell in an augured hole before but would imagine it sucks. I can see how an aeration system could present some liability problems if people are not warned properly of its existence or location and the presence of thin ice. That is negligence. I mean what would be next....illegal to be anywhere on the ice without a life jacket or float suit being worn?......for like....in case you fall in my auger hole you tool? For those against the 10" augers......they have their place and shouldn't be thrown on the scrap pile just yet. You'd have a hard time getting a big 20# plus class Northern or Laker up through an 8" hole. This all seems a bit bogus to me.
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10-02-2015, 09:15 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 562
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Oh ya.....and if you have a private aerated pond on your property put up signage and fence it off in case someone goes ploughing in on their sled or something. I could see that type of event changing lives unnecessarily.
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10-02-2015, 09:24 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Central Alberta
Posts: 1,796
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Here is the law.
While a whole lot of us think that the nanny state is taking over, it appears like this law has been in effect for a long time. There is a date of the early 80's.
http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/a...8.html#docCont
Don
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10-02-2015, 09:48 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: edmonton
Posts: 832
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So my next question about marking the holes is. What's a guy gonna use to label there's a open hole without littering. A stick or spray paint.
Then you work your favorite perch spot and good lord. May aswell give away your coords online.
I guess it comes down to appropriate safe hole sizes.
Your not gonna go to jail if a leg goes in..
Thanks don I didn't really know there's a clause to ice holes.
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10-02-2015, 09:56 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,844
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I was recently told that this law has actually been on the books for 80 years or more and it had more to do with the commercial harvesting of ice than ice fishing or aeration of lakes.
__________________
You can't spend your way out of target panic......trust me.
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10-03-2015, 03:59 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Central Alberta
Posts: 1,796
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Guys,
You had better read section 263 (b).
You injure someone and again the law applies.
A friend told me that he broke a leg in falling into an unmarked hole.
Don
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10-03-2015, 05:44 AM
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Sibbald Flats
Posts: 1,094
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Andersen
Guys,
You had better read section 263 (b).
You injure someone and again the law applies.
A friend told me that he broke a leg in falling into an unmarked hole.
Don
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Don, was the person who made the hole charged?
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10-03-2015, 07:25 AM
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Okotoks wilderness
Posts: 4,420
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A better law would be to
Restrict the size of hole . I have seen 4 ft by 4 ft holes left in
Badger lake . Cut with a chain saw .....Morons .
This business of cutting 3 ten inch and hacking out the middle
Has to come to an end ...
Fish cops will be checking on this in Alberta now.
With the new Dipper Govt , No you are not smart enough to
Take care of yourself . That's their job ....Red Nannies .
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10-03-2015, 08:19 AM
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Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Calgary, Ab
Posts: 2,835
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There are guys who will cut those holes and sit on them for a weekend. It can be as simple as spending 10$ on some simple materials - such as wood stakes and some orange tape. It will cover you backside as a warning of hazard.
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10-03-2015, 09:18 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 469
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My word society is a lost cause. I survived my childhood living in the country. What's next..........?
__________________
"All I care about is FISHING and maybe like three people and BEER"
"Sarcasm is one of the services I offer"
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10-04-2015, 01:53 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 4,090
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Winch101
Restrict the size of hole . I have seen 4 ft by 4 ft holes left in Badger lake . Cut with a chain saw .....Morons .
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Those are usually from netting I believe.
Since the law has been on the books for a while and were not seeing ice fishermen getting charged, im guessing its one that they dont enforce very strongly or at all. However, i think if someone did get hurt in one of your holes you could be liable if they wanted to sue.
Last edited by drhu22; 10-04-2015 at 02:15 AM.
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10-04-2015, 02:07 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Calgary
Posts: 1,481
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slivers86
There are guys who will cut those holes and sit on them for a weekend. It can be as simple as spending 10$ on some simple materials - such as wood stakes and some orange tape. It will cover you backside as a warning of hazard.
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So now you have sticks or stakes sticking up frozen into the ice. Big snowfall or driving at night, they are covered, your driving on the ice hit one and puncture a tire, now who's liable.
Last edited by Bigdad013; 10-04-2015 at 02:29 AM.
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