Alberta Sovereignty act

[roper1]

[QUOTE=jstubbs;4587037]I get where you're coming from with frustration about the healthcare system, but I really don't think there are the parallels between road maintenance and healthcare privatization that you think there are.

The parallel is obvious to most folks my age; we've seen privatization work. You remember Ab Prov works? Of course not. Go back & re-read my text, I'm good friends with a 1/2 dozen guys who went through the change & admit privatization worked, for them, and the taxpayer.

[3blade]

Originally Posted by jstubbs

I get where you're coming from with frustration about the healthcare system, but I really don't think there are the parallels between road maintenance and healthcare privatization that you think there are.



I don't think the Feds really care--they're going to get their take through income tax and GST regardless.

They don’t care nor have any interest, until it’s a family member suffering. Then it’s the nurses fault. Until then, nurses and plow drivers are comparable according to this bunch.

Kinda sad, but Ralph’s dog whistle still rings loud

I’ve told these guys over and over, the problem is he installed political operatives to MAKE the public system inefficient from the top down, so as to make the sale to American companies look better to the public. Roper and many others bought it hook line and sinker.

I also said in that other thread - Danielle doesn’t have the balls to step on federal territory (guns), she will only operate on provincial jurisdiction (healthcare).

her fanboy club sure has proliferated on AO.

[HyperMOA]

Originally Posted by 3blade

They don’t care nor have any interest, until it’s a family member suffering. Then it’s the nurses fault. Until then, nurses and plow drivers are comparable according to this bunch.

Kinda sad, but Ralph’s dog whistle still rings loud

I’ve told these guys over and over, the problem is he installed political operatives to MAKE the public system inefficient from the top down, so as to make the sale to American companies look better to the public. Roper and many others bought it hook line and sinker.

I also said in that other thread - Danielle doesn’t have the balls to step on federal territory (guns), she will only operate on provincial jurisdiction (healthcare).

her fanboy club sure has proliferated on AO.

What does the government and politicians do well?

Exactly, “nothing” is correct. Why do you want them controlling so many aspects of your life?

Serious question, to live in your government controlled utopia, what is the maximum percentage of taxes you are willing to pay? 80%? 100%?

[roper1]

Originally Posted by 3blade

They don’t care nor have any interest, until it’s a family member suffering. Then it’s the nurses fault. Until then, nurses and plow drivers are comparable according to this bunch.

Kinda sad, but Ralph’s dog whistle still rings loud

I’ve told these guys over and over, the problem is he installed political operatives to MAKE the public system inefficient from the top down, so as to make the sale to American companies look better to the public. Roper and many others bought it hook line and sinker.

I also said in that other thread - Danielle doesn’t have the balls to step on federal territory (guns), she will only operate on provincial jurisdiction (healthcare).

her fanboy club sure has proliferated on AO.

You're missing the point. Intentionally or just a little wound up? It's the fact privatization worked for roads that's a success, not relative value to society. My guess is the plow truck driver might think the nurse or ambulance can't function without him.

Not sure I like DS' approach, but why don't you take a run at the .6 solution please.

[jstubbs]

Originally Posted by roper1

The parallel is obvious to most folks my age; we've seen privatization work. You remember Ab Prov works? Of course not. Go back & re-read my text, I'm good friends with a 1/2 dozen guys who went through the change & admit privatization worked, for them, and the taxpayer.

Your age and knowing some guys who drove plow trucks provides zero credence to the supposed parallels between road maintenance privatization and healthcare.

There are no question that certain services and industries can be privatized to good results. This does not mean by any case that it works for all services and industries and that you can draw immediate parallels--especially when comparing something as simple as highway maintenance to something as incredibly complex as healthcare. You don't have to look too far (only a few hundred KM south, actually) to see how brutal private healthcare is.

[dmcbride]

I haven’t posted in a while, but do like to check in.

The countries with the best public healthcare in the world typically run a hybrid system, a mix of public and private healthcare. Using the US is a poor example.

[KGB]

Holy crap we’ve got a real commies here! What a hell is that- I don’t have enough money so I will vote NDP and get free cash? It’s smells really rotten here, just like Venezuela….

[marky_mark]

Originally Posted by 3blade

They don’t care nor have any interest, until it’s a family member suffering. Then it’s the nurses fault. Until then, nurses and plow drivers are comparable according to this bunch.

Kinda sad, but Ralph’s dog whistle still rings loud

I’ve told these guys over and over, the problem is he installed political operatives to MAKE the public system inefficient from the top down, so as to make the sale to American companies look better to the public. Roper and many others bought it hook line and sinker.

I also said in that other thread - Danielle doesn’t have the balls to step on federal territory (guns), she will only operate on provincial jurisdiction (healthcare).

her fanboy club sure has proliferated on AO.

No one has ever had to install political operatives to make the public system inefficient lol they do that on their own.
Nothing in the public sector is efficient

[ESOXangler]

Originally Posted by KGB

Holy crap we’ve got a real commies here! What a hell is that- I don’t have enough money so I will vote NDP and get free cash? It’s smells really rotten here, just like Venezuela….

Lots of corporate boot lickers too. Does anyone work for major corporations anymore? Everything is based off 1/4 profits and no maintenance. And if that model fails then you get a bail out. Capitalism is a dead dog, it's all corporate socialism.

Personally I'm right of center but that doesn't exist anymore.

[Redhorse Ranch]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7ZfBNdZXdc

This oughta be interesting.

If the Supreme Court finds in favour of Quebecs' position, it directly strengthens Albertas' stance with the Sovereignty Act. Interesting that they're not arguing division of power (that's a given), but rather federal coercion regarding enforcement of federal law.

[HyperMOA]

Originally Posted by jstubbs

Your age and knowing some guys who drove plow trucks provides zero credence to the supposed parallels between road maintenance privatization and healthcare.

There are no question that certain services and industries can be privatized to good results. This does not mean by any case that it works for all services and industries and that you can draw immediate parallels--especially when comparing something as simple as highway maintenance to something as incredibly complex as healthcare. You don't have to look too far (only a few hundred KM south, actually) to see how brutal private healthcare is.

That post is hilarious. Yes healthcare in Canada is so very complex nobody but the government could run it. Hahahahahaha. Do you understand what privatizing even means? How much would our vibrant healthcare system change if half of the AHS management was fired tomorrow? Not doctors and nurses but the layers of management appointed by politicians making huge wages. I bet the system works better immediately.

[Rancid Crabtree]

Since healthcare and privatization have come up.

My observation is that the smoothest run areas of our health care system are where private contractors are used a lot.
Lab work and imaging.
I see no reason that surgical contractors could not work the same way, especially for routine surgery like knees and hip replacements.

[Smoky buck]

Originally Posted by dmcbride

I haven’t posted in a while, but do like to check in.

The countries with the best public healthcare in the world typically run a hybrid system, a mix of public and private healthcare. Using the US is a poor example.

This is correct but shh that it won’t work in Canada because no one could afford it lol

[Sundog57]

As far as the Sovereignty Act goes we should look at Canada as if it was a company.
Think of Sock Boy as the President (it makes me want to gag, but for the sake of discussion)
Then think of the Premiers as VPs of various divisions.
Several of the VPs object strongly to the vision of the President to the extent that one issues a flat out refusal.
In the Corporate world, the President is responsible for maintaining 'goal congruence" that is to assure everyone is pulling in the same direction.
It would be a colossal failure to have a VP of perhaps the most profitable division to rebel publicly. The shareholders and the Board would be looking at the President's performance with askance. At the next AGM someone would be looking for another job.

Canadians in general are not considered to be particularly radical - within our breadth most will do what's necessary, albeit with some grumbling, to get along with others.
Danielle Smith did not appear suddenly out of thin air. She arrived due to the gross incompetence of the Prime Minister and his cadre of ideologues who put idealism over pragmatism. Rex Murphy was 100% correct in his article.

[antlercarver]

Originally Posted by marky_mark

No one has ever had to install political operatives to make the public system inefficient lol they do that on their own.
Nothing in the public sector is efficient

Russian workers say "They pretend to pay us and we pretend to work"

[Grizzly Adams1]

Canadians in general are not considered to be particularly radical - within our breadth most will do what's necessary, albeit with some grumbling, to get along with others.
Danielle Smith did not appear suddenly out of thin air. She arrived due to the gross incompetence of the Prime Minister and his cadre of ideologues who put idealism over pragmatism. Rex Murphy was 100% correct in his article.

The Peasants are restless, no surprise.

Grizz

[pikergolf]

Originally Posted by ESOXangler

I am VERY familiar with the system. I'm guessing you either have the money or think you have the money to support private. I do too but maybe my kids won't. We just went through a pandemic that overloaded our system and once again it's getting overloaded. The"think different" party is doing just that right now. Everyone is soooooo scared of Notley they will just let any thief drive the truck.

No I sure don't have money, fixed income and it's not a lot. For some reason you think I want the system to go to pay as you go, I don't, maybe read the post you responded to again. I want Hospitals to cover emergencies, everything else goes to privately run surgical suits, they bill the gov. I worked a public union job for many years, I see the waste in management. At least with private I know the fat gets cut and would guess procedures would go faster, cheaper and the people doing the actual work would be making more coin. Anyone with some common sense can see the system we have now is unsustainable. Again unions are more worried about their pay check than patients.

[FredF2]

Originally Posted by pikergolf

No I sure don't have money, fixed income and it's not a lot. For some reason you think I want the system to go to pay as you go, I don't, maybe read the post you responded to again. I want Hospitals to cover emergencies, everything else goes to privately run surgical suits, they bill the gov. I worked a public union job for many years, I see the waste in management. At least with private I know the fat gets cut and would guess procedures would go faster, cheaper and the people doing the actual work would be making more coin. Anyone with some common sense can see the system we have now is unsustainable. Again unions are more worried about their pay check than patients.

What is FOR PROFIT medicine most concerned about... peoples well being or the bottom line?

[farmer23]

'What is FOR PROFIT medicine most concerned about... peoples well being or the bottom line?'

Dental and optometry are for profit but I would say outcomes are very good in these two medical fields.

[tirebob]

Originally Posted by FredF2

What is FOR PROFIT medicine most concerned about... peoples well being or the bottom line?

When things are for profit, providing quality service for money spent compared to your competition drives quality care.

My wife is American and we have had one of our children born there and one born here and I can tell you from personal experience that the level of care we received down there from beginning to end was far superior to what we experienced here.

That is not knocking the good people who worked in either system. That is just a fact that the for profit system was far more detail oriented and on point at every moment.

Note I am not one for a 100% private only system, but I do believe there is room for running a parallel or hybrid system in our society.

[RichV]

Originally Posted by Sundog57

Think of Sock Boy as the President

Then think of the Premiers as VPs of various divisions.

Several of the VPs object strongly to the vision of the President to the extent that one issues a flat out refusal.

I like your analogy, but I'm going to take exception to this. The Premiers as "VPs" implies they are subservient to the PM, which they are not. Each Premier is the "President" of their own company and they answer to their own shareholders (us). Provinces stay in Confederation by consent, and it is the PMs job to maintain conditions that make the Provinces want to continue giving that consent.

Ottawa in its arrogance is ignoring how the Provincial and Federal governments should work together. The ASA is a good reminder for Ottawa to stay in their lane.

[lmtada]

Originally Posted by Redhorse Ranch

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7ZfBNdZXdc

This oughta be interesting.

If the Supreme Court finds in favour of Quebecs' position, it directly strengthens Albertas' stance with the Sovereignty Act. Interesting that they're not arguing division of power (that's a given), but rather federal coercion regarding enforcement of federal law.

That is a good video. Interesting how this Quebec case May effect Alberta Sovereignty act. How coercion by the feds to implement federal policy over provinces policies. I can see how Notley NDP would roll over for federal overreach vs Smith would roll out the Cavalry. Thank You. 🤠

[Bigwoodsman]

Originally Posted by RichV

I like your analogy, but I'm going to take exception to this. The Premiers as "VPs" implies they are subservient to the PM, which they are not. Each Premier is the "President" of their own company and they answer to their own shareholders (us). Provinces stay in Confederation by consent, and it is the PMs job to maintain conditions that make the Provinces want to continue giving that consent.

Ottawa in its arrogance is ignoring how the Provincial and Federal governments should work together. The ASA is a good reminder for Ottawa to stay in their lane.

I like this analogy best, as it depicts our constitution best.

I'd add that as federal tax payers we are all shareholders in this country. It is a shame that we cannot all receive a ballot which allows us to vote for the PM of your own choice. Changing that would make a huge difference in how the country was run.

BW

[Redhorse Ranch]

Originally Posted by lmtada

That is a good video. Interesting how this Quebec case May effect Alberta Sovereignty act. How coercion by the feds to implement federal policy over provinces policies. I can see how Notley NDP would roll over for federal overreach vs Smith would roll out the Cavalry. Thank You. 🤠

Thanks for watching it. The CCF are the real deal as far as I can see. They were present at the Emergency Act inquiry, and were one of the legal groups with the right to cross-examine witnesses.

They have intervenor status at this Supreme Court hearing, so whatever happens we'll get true information from them, no speculation.

Given their track record, I can see them arguing for the SC to hew closely to the letter of the law (in this case the Constitution) which bodes well for the Provinces.

They've made it onto my donations list.

[pikergolf]

Originally Posted by FredF2

What is FOR PROFIT medicine most concerned about... peoples well being or the bottom line?

What are union workers most concerned about, your health or their wage. I'll trust someone that is financially motivated to do a good job far more than a union worker thanks.

And yes that is a broad generalization.

[3blade]

Originally Posted by marky_mark

No one has ever had to install political operatives to make the public system inefficient lol they do that on their own.
Nothing in the public sector is efficient

Klein
Redford (husband)
Dinning
Duckett
Shandro

And that’s just the ones that anyone can Google, all with publicly exposed conflicts of interest against public healthcare, there’s a bunch more that have left the board quickly and quietly.

At some (long past) point, it’s not a coincidence or conspiracy theory.

[ESOXangler]

Originally Posted by pikergolf

No I sure don't have money, fixed income and it's not a lot. For some reason you think I want the system to go to pay as you go, I don't, maybe read the post you responded to again. I want Hospitals to cover emergencies, everything else goes to privately run surgical suits, they bill the gov. I worked a public union job for many years, I see the waste in management. At least with private I know the fat gets cut and would guess procedures would go faster, cheaper and the people doing the actual work would be making more coin. Anyone with some common sense can see the system we have now is unsustainable. Again unions are more worried about their pay check than patients.

I just re-read everything I've wrote and not at anytime did I advocate for anything other than fully covered. I don't want anything related to private at all.

You spend alot of time union bashing but have you ever given thought that maybe they're not the actual problem? Sure maybe the top dogs but the average person is just trying to do the best they can with what they got.

To fix our problems we should be asking harder questions like "why can't we expand the education system to output more trained Dr's and nurses?" After all its the drs association that's limiting seats is it not?

You think AHS is bloated and inefficient? What causes that? Have you looked through the Financials and utilizing your own business degree built a proper org chart to finally solve the riddle and have a perfect box for everyone?

It's always easier to sit around and attack each other. The top dogs all want that and in the meantime they just keep finding ways to rob the average tax payer.

FYI I say all this and I am in no way affiliated with any labour organization

[Salavee]

Originally Posted by RichV

I like your analogy, but I'm going to take exception to this. The Premiers as "VPs" implies they are subservient to the PM, which they are not. Each Premier is the "President" of their own company and they answer to their own shareholders (us). Provinces stay in Confederation by consent, and it is the PMs job to maintain conditions that make the Provinces want to continue giving that consent.

Ottawa in its arrogance is ignoring how the Provincial and Federal governments should work together. The ASA is a good reminder for Ottawa to stay in their lane.

Good to see that somebody has it right. You nailed it !

When Trudeau shows he's willing to put the cane away, or somebody takes it away from him, Canada will maybe get back to something similar to
normalcy. DS and PP will need all the support they can get. I, for one, wish them the best of Success.

[I’d rather be outdoors]

Healthcare debate aside, this act is exactly what Alberta needs to metaphorically poke Trudeau in the eye with a stick, all the while setting boundaries. Love it. Of course the left hate it (or anything like it really). Milk comes from their Papa trudeau.

[pikergolf]

Originally Posted by ESOXangler

I just re-read everything I've wrote and not at anytime did I advocate for anything other than fully covered. I don't want anything related to private at all.

You spend alot of time union bashing but have you ever given thought that maybe they're not the actual problem? Sure maybe the top dogs but the average person is just trying to do the best they can with what they got.

To fix our problems we should be asking harder questions like "why can't we expand the education system to output more trained Dr's and nurses?" After all its the drs association that's limiting seats is it not?

You think AHS is bloated and inefficient? What causes that? Have you looked through the Financials and utilizing your own business degree built a proper org chart to finally solve the riddle and have a perfect box for everyone?

It's always easier to sit around and attack each other. The top dogs all want that and in the meantime they just keep finding ways to rob the average tax payer.

FYI I say all this and I am in no way affiliated with any labour organization

I did not think I was bashing unions. There are lots of good workers across all spectrums in unions, but there are also a fairly large percentage that have checked out and are putting in time. Every union worker knows that to be true. Governments by their very nature are poor managers, why? Because there is no oversight on how money is spent. Business does a whole lot better in that regard. Making money is not a sin like Jagmeet thinks it is. What we are running now is unsustainable. Time to think out side the box. Of course those in the box will be upset, does not mean it's not necessary. If I had my say I would find a competent person from a nation that does health care well and let them fix it. Asking the people inside the system to fix it, in my opinion never works, they have to much skin in the game to be objective.