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  #61  
Old 05-08-2013, 08:27 AM
Donkey Oatey Donkey Oatey is offline
 
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Turning a blind eye to deviant behavior doesn't make for a better society. It creeps along, constantly seeking to normalize its acts and up the ante. Too often these days, kids are the target. God help us when we have more people condoning these actions rather than condemning them. Turning a blind eye and sloughing it off as "human nature" accelerates the decline. We are seeing it more and more as years go by. And finding a playboy in a back alley is a lot different than having your teacher post it on the wall.
I think it is timely that Elizabeth Smart has been speaking out about societies obsession with purity can cause children to not report abuse or try to escape captors.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/ellievhall/e...pe-victims-fee



Kidnapping victim Elizabeth Smart's remarks about her religious upbringing have been widely reported to be a criticism of abstinence-only sex ed, but a full review of the speech she delivered last week, now online on a local news station's website, reveals that Smart blamed the conservative cultural emphasis on sexual purity as a reason why many sexually abused captives feel too traumatized to escape their kidnappers.

Smart spoke candidly Wednesday about how the lessons of her conservative Mormon upbringing left her feeling "dirty and filthy" and of no value to society after she was raped at the hands of her captors as a 14-year-old.

"I'll never forget how I felt lying there on the ground," Smart said at a human trafficking and sexual violence conference at Johns Hopkins University in Baltimore last week. "I felt like my soul had been crushed. I felt like I wasn't even human anymore. How could anybody love me, or want me or care about me? I felt like life had no more meaning to it, and that was only the beginning of my nine months of captivity."

Elizabeth Smart was kidnapped from her Salt Lake City home in June 2002 by a drifter named Brian David Mitchell, who held the teenage girl hostage for nine months with the help of his wife, Wanda Barzee. Mitchell claimed that Smart was his "second wife" and raped her repeatedly until she was found by police in March 2003.

Citing her own experience, Smart, now an advocate for missing and exploited children, described why so many kidnappees, especially those who have been sexually abused, don't attempt to escape their captors:

"I think it goes even beyond fear, for so many children, especially in sex trafficking. It's feelings of self-worth. It's feeling like, 'Who would ever want me now? I'm worthless.'

That is what it was for me the first time I was raped. I was raised in a very religious household, one that taught that sex was something special that only happened between a husband and a wife who loved each other. And that's how I'd been raised, that's what I'd always been determined to follow: that when I got married, then and only then would I engage in sex.

After that first rape, I felt crushed. Who could want me now? I felt so dirty and so filthy. I understand so easily all too well why someone wouldn't run because of that alone."

Smart said she was raised to believe that her virginity was "the most special thing" and described how her childhood self viewed her rape as something that "devalued" her. "Can you imagine turning around and going back into a society where you're no longer of value?" she asked the audience. "Where you're no longer as good as everybody else?"

Years of abstinence-only sex education fueled her sense of unworthiness after she was raped, Smart said as she recalled a teacher who compared sex to chewing gum. "I thought, 'Oh my gosh, I'm that chewed up piece of gum, nobody re-chews a piece of gum, you throw it away.' And that's how easily it is to feel like you no longer have worth, you no longer have value," she said. "Why would it even be worth screaming out? Why would it even make a difference if you are rescued? Your life still has no value."

"That's terrible," Smart said as she remembered her teacher's words. "Nobody should ever say that."

The best thing we can do to prevent children from becoming a victim to sexual abuse, trafficking or kidnapping, Smart explained, is to teach them from an early age that they are worthy of love regardless of what happens to them. "You have value," she said. "You will always have value and nothing can change that."
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Old 05-08-2013, 08:52 AM
silverdoctor silverdoctor is offline
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The poster is inappropriate on many levels - yup - but blatant sex talk with kids shouldn't be. Wynne - the first openly lesbian premier - said she was going to bring "in your face" sex ed to the schools, and maybe it's time to do so. Someone posted in this thread that kids today probably laughed it off, and I believe that.

I know fathers that sat their son down with a porn movie and suggest that's what sex is all about. Is it really? With such easy access to porn these days, that's where many kids are learning about sex. Like it or not, it's reality. I know 12 and 13 year olds - boys and girls - that had larger porn stashes than their parents hidden on hard drives. I won't even go into the idea of video cameras and sexting.

Kids are having sex younger than ever these days, that's reality. Who's going to teach them? The birds and the bees never did cut it, never will.
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  #63  
Old 05-08-2013, 09:17 AM
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"On a serious note I think parents would rather their kids find out about aids from that poster than find out the hard way because they are soo sheltered these days."

So there are only two ways to find out about aids? In your face or in your face?

HMMMMM what kind of crowd do you hang with?

You want this same school system that fails to teach kids to read or write or do math to teach them about sex? Well we know where the "bernardos " of the world can get work when they are rehabilitated.

Why would kids who are 'that' sheltered need to have aids info at 11 years old, unless they are giving out BJ's they learned in school.

And since these practises have the "Bee" stamp of approval, what else do you need to know?
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  #64  
Old 05-08-2013, 09:23 AM
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Originally Posted by silverdoctor View Post
The poster is inappropriate on many levels - yup - but blatant sex talk with kids shouldn't be. Wynne - the first openly lesbian premier - said she was going to bring "in your face" sex ed to the schools, and maybe it's time to do so. Someone posted in this thread that kids today probably laughed it off, and I believe that.

I know fathers that sat their son down with a porn movie and suggest that's what sex is all about. Is it really? With such easy access to porn these days, that's where many kids are learning about sex. Like it or not, it's reality. I know 12 and 13 year olds - boys and girls - that had larger porn stashes than their parents hidden on hard drives. I won't even go into the idea of video cameras and sexting.

Kids are having sex younger than ever these days, that's reality. Who's going to teach them? The birds and the bees never did cut it, never will.

You keep saying it's reality. Well that don't make it reality and it sure is not reality in my world. If that is the world you want to settle for maybe you can research what kind of marks the 11 and 12 year olds got on their BJ tests.

Wonder how people learned about sex before the internet? Wonder why a long lasting relationship is the exception? Wonder how you got your sex ed. I didn't get mine about the birds and bees or internet. Possibly there are other ways to learn.
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  #65  
Old 05-08-2013, 09:33 AM
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You keep saying it's reality. Well that don't make it reality and it sure is not reality in my world. If that is the world you want to settle for maybe you can research what kind of marks the 11 and 12 year olds got on their BJ tests.

Wonder how people learned about sex before the internet? Wonder why a long lasting relationship is the exception? Wonder how you got your sex ed. I didn't get mine about the birds and bees or internet. Possibly there are other ways to learn.
Yeah but in your day the miracle drug penicillin has just been invented and was saving lives all over the place.

Anyways I believe the point is that while none of us agree with the language in the poster, it's message is necessary! Safe sex should be practiced and that includes oral sex. And because of the ease of information nowadays children are learning things at an earlier age, so therefore the information needs to hit them sooner. HIV doesn't care about morals or age!
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  #66  
Old 05-08-2013, 09:39 AM
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"HIV doesn't care about morals or age!"

Catchy but meaningless. Any idea how Aids is spread? The answer my friend is not "blowing in the wind".

You seem confused. Penicillin, 'back in the day' didn't cure HIV/Aids. It didn't have to. We also didn't receive instructions on oral sex at school, unless it was Catholic school of course.
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  #67  
Old 05-08-2013, 09:52 AM
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Just one more example of homosexuals trying to convince kids that being gay is as normal and acceptable as heterosexuality. They've been trying for years.
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Old 05-08-2013, 10:18 AM
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Just one more example of homosexuals trying to convince kids that being gay is as normal and acceptable as heterosexuality. They've been trying for years.
The laws of the country already say that it is and that to teach differently is a "hate crime".
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  #69  
Old 05-08-2013, 10:30 AM
fargineyesore fargineyesore is offline
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The laws of the country already say that it is and that to teach differently is a "hate crime".
So just because the government says it is normal and acceptable behavior it is? Are we to let the government teach us morality? It used to be against the law for women to vote also, but I guess because the government says it was so it was okay. The government is not always right. If my view is that homosexuality is immoral and not normal, I'm promoting hatred? That's bs.
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Old 05-08-2013, 11:03 AM
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So just because the government says it is normal and acceptable behavior it is? Are we to let the government teach us morality? It used to be against the law for women to vote also, but I guess because the government says it was so it was okay. The government is not always right. If my view is that homosexuality is immoral and not normal, I'm promoting hatred? That's bs.
Schools must follow the laws that are set down by the government. Personal beliefs about it aside, if the province tells them they must teach that same sex relationships are normal then that is what is taught.

Now the poster goes way beyond that. The language and imagery is unacceptable and should not be on display in any school. The teaching of actual techniques is also not appropriate for a school setting IMO but if the provincial education department is telling then that they have to then they have to. I don't know about Ontario -- only about Alberta and the only "technique" that is taught by law here is appropriate use of contraception and STI prevention.
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  #71  
Old 05-08-2013, 11:26 AM
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people are sexual creatures from conception to cremation.

It doesnt just start when their boobs start sticking out and their dicks get hard.

Perhaps what is needed in your area is different than what is needed in a highly multicultural and urban environment.

I am in no way supporting whatever poster was displayed as I could not stand to listen to that obnoxious, shameless, manipulative blow hard, hide yo wife, hide yo kids,

but y'all HAVE to see this ATROCITY!!!!!

btw dantosen,

its spelled jerbs, as in, "therr steelin ur jerbs!@!#!"

Dang gubmint thinkin it therr jerb tu edumacate ma kids abowt blow jerbs!!!!

Get out the bubble wrap and wrap your kids up boys and girls. 13-15 year olds cant handle lude posters these days lol.

BUT, do go buy a gun and teach your 6 year old how to shoot

I am going to buy some shares in a company the sells twist/bunch-free pantys
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Old 05-08-2013, 12:47 PM
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[QUOTE=dantonsen;1960341]Dang gubmint thinkin it therr jerb tu edumacate ma kids abowt blow jerbs!!!!

Get out the bubble wrap and wrap your kids up boys and girls. 13-15 year olds cant handle lude posters these days lol.

BUT, do go buy a gun and teach your 6 year old how to shoot

So you're ok with teaching your kids how to give a great bj. Fine. What problem do you have with doing that yourself? Just curious why is it so important to you that minors are taught this?

Not sure how learning to shoot a gun (outside of school), compares to learning how to give a bj (inside school).

Oh, and believe it or not, there are children that age that aren't exposed to that crap and do just fine.

PS: Do the hillbilly spelling thing again. It's hilarious, especially how you misspelled lude...aka lewd. I know you're trying to be a laugh riot and put down people with different morals than you, but do you really believe you are more intelligent than people who have a different moral compass than you?

Last edited by rugatika; 05-08-2013 at 12:54 PM.
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  #73  
Old 05-08-2013, 12:50 PM
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Dang gubmint thinkin it therr jerb tu edumacate ma kids abowt blow jerbs!!!!

Get out the bubble wrap and wrap your kids up boys and girls. 13-15 year olds cant handle lude posters these days lol.

BUT, do go buy a gun and teach your 6 year old how to shoot

I am going to buy some shares in a company the sells twist/bunch-free pantys
I wonder if you two realise how asinine you're making yourselves look. Probably not, likely can't see past that nose stuck ten feet up in the air.
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Old 05-08-2013, 01:13 PM
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I wonder if you two realise how asinine you're making yourselves look. Probably not, likely can't see past that nose stuck ten feet up in the air.
No sh1t.
When I was a kid we didn`t know about homosex .Real,normal sex we had to learn on the street ,just like our parents.Sex Ed is for teaching about birth control,not blowjobs.By the way,I got my first rifle when I was 10.
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  #75  
Old 05-08-2013, 01:41 PM
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I wonder if you two realise how asinine you're making yourselves look. Probably not, likely can't see past that nose stuck ten feet up in the air.

It is a poster... Who cares? Obviously the students in the class didn't. Why should anyone else?

You guys getting all wrapped up into a tussle and your knickers all twisted over it is funny though so conitnue on,
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Old 05-08-2013, 02:02 PM
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It is a poster... Who cares? Obviously the students in the class didn't. Why should anyone else?

You guys getting all wrapped up into a tussle and your knickers all twisted over it is funny though so conitnue on,
Dantonsen...

Come back in a decade or so and one night we can have a great adult conversation when your 12 year old girl is sleeping soundly upstairs.

Then you can tell me all about how great you think showing this poster to your 12 year old girl is. If you would like I am sure as a forum we could arrange to get you one of these posters so you can put it up in her bedroom.

Right now, you haven't got a clue and it shows.

If I caught an adult showing my little girls that picture there would be violence. No doubt about it. You are a pathetic man if you have children and speak about this issue the way you do. Stop trying to follow in Queen Troll - Beeguy's footsteps.
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Old 05-08-2013, 03:52 PM
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It is a poster... Who cares? Obviously the students in the class didn't. Why should anyone else?

You guys getting all wrapped up into a tussle and your knickers all twisted over it is funny though so conitnue on,
Exactly!!!! Finally the voice of reason!!!

So hypothetically of course , because I don't know you, if you have a son and daughter who happen to be twins would you give them a course on giving the perfect BJ for their 12th birthday?
I can't imagine how exciting it would be to tell them tonight at dinner. I'd even leave it a surprise for mom.

I'm sure she would think you're the best dad ever. Hey do it on the weekend. It's mother's day after all.
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Old 05-08-2013, 04:01 PM
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Sex Ed is for teaching about birth control,not blowjobs.By the way,I got my first ...
I totally thought you were going somewhere else with that
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Old 05-08-2013, 04:46 PM
Tactical Lever Tactical Lever is offline
 
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Originally Posted by BeeGuy View Post
people are sexual creatures from conception to cremation.

It doesnt just start when their boobs start sticking out and their dicks get hard.

Perhaps what is needed in your area is different than what is needed in a highly multicultural and urban environment.

I am in no way supporting whatever poster was displayed as I could not stand to listen to that obnoxious, shameless, manipulative blow hard, hide yo wife, hide yo kids,

but y'all HAVE to see this ATROCITY!!!!!

btw dantosen,

its spelled jerbs, as in, "therr steelin ur jerbs!@!#!"
Ah, because you are so "cultured", you recognize that your 9 year old son has needs. Needs that some 50 year old man that lives in a neighborhood near you can provide.

Really! Who are you to deny two sexual creatures from doing what comes naturally?

If you were mature enough to raise a child, you might see a little more value in innocence.

Good parenting does not include openly preening them for sexual predation.
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Old 05-08-2013, 04:55 PM
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T/L don't you agree that it's a little unfair for the school to take the mystery out of a relationship like that? What would be left?

Did you notice that the ones who support this as part of the curriculum failed miserably at spelling? Oh well, not everyone has an aptitude for all subjects.
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Old 05-08-2013, 05:12 PM
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I am for sure not a prude but to post up a poster like that is completely crazy....I cannot see the value if any in posting that for kids to read.

I would like to see an interview with that teacher ....it is really creepy to post that in a classroom....I am guessing they get kicks from delivering a message based on shock value....was the teacher male or female?

How did they obtain the poster? Steal it off the wall of a favourite weekend haunt?

LC
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Old 05-08-2013, 06:06 PM
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Originally Posted by fargineyesore View Post
Just one more example of homosexuals trying to convince kids that being gay is as normal and acceptable as heterosexuality. They've been trying for years.
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Originally Posted by sjemac View Post
The laws of the country already say that it is and that to teach differently is a "hate crime".
The laws of this country say no such thing. Before you say otherwise I suggest you post the law where it says "normal and acceptable".
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Old 05-08-2013, 06:10 PM
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Originally Posted by pesky672 View Post
Somebody… a lot of somebodies actually… need to be fired.
They should start with the Education Minister.

Early sexual education is a good thing BUT there must be reasonable limits.

At the point where you are posting tips on how to do an act that I can't even write here... on a bulletin board for pre-adolescents to refer to... you've crossed a line.
Further... there is a great deal of difference between informing young people what something is and actually advocating doing it.
Those "informational" postings appeared to be as more along the lines of encouraging than simply providing information.

Finally... schools are there to teach and along with the usual fare it is expected that they will help reinforce the morals of society on the whole.
That said, the TSD seems to be actively trying to redefine societal mores and undermine the morals of most parents.... or at least those parents that are more sexually conservative.
A designation that would (I assume) apply to the majority of parents…. if not the bulk of society itself.

Rather than take a reasonable neutral posture they have placed themselves in direct conflict with a great many people whose children attend those schools.
This alone is a breach of trust and there is little doubt it has resulted in the schools causing significant conflict within a number of families.

We lose our minds every time a young person is victimized sexually.
We cannot imagine how otherwise bright young people can be bamboozled by predators.
Is it any wonder now … when we see that public institutions are conditioning kids and normalizing all manner of sexual acts?
To the point that they are actually giving them pointers to improve their prowess?!?
If that encouragement to participate, practice and improve performance isn’t also helping facilitate perverts desires… I don’t know what else could.

Kids can't by Playboy magazine... but then why would they wish to when the information on that bulletin board is so much more... stimulating?

Maybe along with all the other things lost to cutbacks... we need to make some serious cuts to sex ed funding and get schools back to teaching what they used to be quite good at but are now failing to do... reading, scribe and arithmetic.
Perhaps schools should stick to just teaching kids where babies come from.

There are plenty of other resources out there that can be accessed should individuals with special needs wish to seek more information than that.
Excellent post. x2. I am not a "Christian" or any other such designation. I am a "heathen", by any definition. But if this kind of pure politically motivated, social engineering crap had appeared in any way in my kids' schools, or in any material they brought home, there would have been hell to pay. Now, we have school boards in Ontario publicly stating that they are "co-parenting" the children. With the exception of those unfortunates that have truly dreadful parents, for which there are other avenues of relief, that is NOT the function of the "educators". The people who subscribe to this sort of "education" have no concept of democratic society - they believe it somehow involves shouting down and intimidating everyone who does not subscribe to the same narrow views.
Thankfully, we do have the Sun News Network to take them on - the other "news" networks have become such toadies of the "politically correct" views in media context. Hopefully, the CRTC will give them the same "must carry" platforms in the cable environment so they can survive - to date they have determinedly tried to bring their alternative views and courageous questioning of that modality on their own money - huge losses due to not being given the same standing as the CBC (which sucks up over $1B of our tax money every year to bring us poor, misguided yardapes the "correct" view on everything), CTV, Global, etc. Might incentivize a little such journalistic courage on the part of the competition (well, not the CBC, because you and I pay through the nose for them not to need to be competitive).
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Old 05-08-2013, 06:18 PM
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The laws of this country say no such thing. Before you say otherwise I suggest you post the law where it says "normal and acceptable".
They legalized same sex marriage and it is illegal to discriminate based on sexual orientation. So apparently they have found that it is acceptable and normal. If not in the letter of the law then definitely in its practice and application.
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Old 05-08-2013, 06:45 PM
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They legalized same sex marriage and it is illegal to discriminate based on sexual orientation. So apparently they have found that it is acceptable and normal. If not in the letter of the law then definitely in its practice and application.
No. The act is not normal and not acceptable (non-discriminatory). I can say this because I have certain rights. However, every individual is equal before and under the law and has the right to the equal protection and equal benefit of the law without discrimination and, in particular, without discrimination based on race, national or ethnic origin, colour, religion, sex, age or mental or physical disability.
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Old 05-08-2013, 06:55 PM
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No. The act is not normal and not acceptable (non-discriminatory). I can say this because I have certain rights. However, every individual is equal before and under the law and has the right to the equal protection and equal benefit of the law without discrimination and, in particular, without discrimination based on race, national or ethnic origin, colour, religion, sex, age or mental or physical disability.
You have an opinion you are entitled to. Many do not share it.

Play semantics all you want to.

Since the law does not punish homosexual behavior between consenting adults it is acceptable in the eyes of the law. How is that so hard to understand?


But you have the right to believe what you want to







even if its wrong.
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Old 05-08-2013, 07:29 PM
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You have an opinion you are entitled to. Many do not share it.

Play semantics all you want to.

Since the law does not punish homosexual behavior between consenting adults it is acceptable in the eyes of the law. How is that so hard to understand?


But you have the right to believe what you want to







even if its wrong.
Not playing semantics....I'm not good at it. I was correcting you after you said that homosexuality was normal and acceptable and that to teach otherwise is a hate crime. I was correct in calling you out on that and you know it. You fail to understand that I (we) have the freedom to express ourselves. If you do not acknowledge and teach this fundamental right (to our children), we will live in fear of prosecution for speaking out on behalf of our beliefs. Homosexuality is a deviance from the social norm. Our law is based on tolerance of sexual orientation. Our law does not normalize this act, it protects it from discrimination. Keep Calm and Tolerate the Intolerable .....
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Old 05-08-2013, 07:43 PM
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Originally Posted by ehntr View Post
Not playing semantics....I'm not good at it. I was correcting you after you said that homosexuality was normal and acceptable and that to teach otherwise is a hate crime. I was correct in calling you out on that and you know it. You fail to understand that I (we) have the freedom to express ourselves. If you do not acknowledge and teach this fundamental right (to our children), we will live in fear of prosecution for speaking out on behalf of our beliefs. Homosexuality is a deviance from the social norm. Our law is based on tolerance of sexual orientation. Our law does not normalize this act, it protects it from discrimination. Keep Calm and Tolerate the Intolerable .....
Sorry I should have said "hate crime".

Unlike you I never gave my personal opinion about homosexuality at all -- nor will I. You are assuming. All my comments were directed towards the law.

You are correct in that like anyone, teachers in a school have the fundamental freedom to express themselves. The board has the freedom to remove them from service if they are teaching that homosexuality is abnormal and wrong -- because the provincial governments of this nation forbid them from teaching that. If the teacher is too vociferous in their opposition to homosexuality they could very well find themselves at a human rights tribunal facing accusations of hate speech.

You talk about freedoms that we really don't have in practice.
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  #89  
Old 05-08-2013, 07:55 PM
Big Daddy Badger Big Daddy Badger is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeGuy View Post
people are sexual creatures from conception to cremation.

It doesnt just start when their boobs start sticking out and their dicks get hard.

Perhaps what is needed in your area is different than what is needed in a highly multicultural and urban environment.

I am in no way supporting whatever poster was displayed as I could not stand to listen to that obnoxious, shameless, manipulative blow hard, hide yo wife, hide yo kids,

but y'all HAVE to see this ATROCITY!!!!!

btw dantosen,

its spelled jerbs, as in, "therr steelin ur jerbs!@!#!"
Well then Bee you should have turned the sound off and read what those posters said.

While I agree that it is important for kids to be provided some basic information about health sexuality and reproduction.

I don't think its nessisary or wise to provide them pointers on how to Beeeeep throat.

I'm pretty sure that most people... gay, straight, parent or otherwise would not consider it a good thing to have kids as over-sexed as porn stars before they finish puberty.
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  #90  
Old 05-08-2013, 08:03 PM
Big Daddy Badger Big Daddy Badger is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redfrog View Post
"HIV doesn't care about morals or age!"

Catchy but meaningless. Any idea how Aids is spread? The answer my friend is not "blowing in the wind".

You seem confused. Penicillin, 'back in the day' didn't cure HIV/Aids. It didn't have to. We also didn't receive instructions on oral sex at school, unless it was Catholic school of course.
HIV absolutley can be spread to another while engaged in oral sex.

A barrier is necessary whenever bodily fluids aside from saliva are exchanged.
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