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  #181  
Old 03-05-2013, 02:31 PM
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Just for the record, I started this thread almost 6 years ago, and the ticket has long since been paid!
  #182  
Old 03-05-2013, 06:31 PM
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I wondered why it had became an issue again Scott.
I'm glad it's a done deal for you.

Look, I don't doubt that sometimes the wrong people get ticketed. I'm in no way denying that.

What I was referring to was people like one fellow I stopped today.
We were patching pot holes, I was flagging.

About 1.00pm I noticed a chip truck approaching from the south, my end of the zone. Moments after noticing him I see a pickup pull out and pass him, in our construction zone. So I stop them both.

I walked over to the driver of the pickup and asked him if he knew how to read signs. He said yes he did and he had seen our signs.
I then asked him if he had seen our no passing in construction zone sign, no he said, I guess I missed that one.

Not wanting to press the matter further I sent them on through.
Now remember, the chip truck was only feet behind the pickup when they stopped. However, by the time the chip truck reached our crew 100 yards away, the pickup was already clear of the work zone.
He went over 1.5 kilometres in the time it took the chip truck to go 100 meters and they started at the same time.

Do the math.

I know who that pickup driver is. He's a local businessman and a avid outdoorsman. And he's well into his fifties.
He has been through enough construction zones to know every sign ever used.

That is what I'm talking about.

If you were to ask him about today, he would tell you he simply forgot about the no passing, and he certainly wasn't speeding.

The evidence says otherwise.

And we see it every day, many times a day.
  #183  
Old 03-05-2013, 09:45 PM
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Well I'm going to fight one just received.... Leaving town 62 in a 50 with the front of my truck almost even with the 60 speed sign. Revenue fishing hole.

#1) This is from the province photo enforcement guidelines.....but what do they care about following them when there is money to be made...."The use of automated traffic technology in speed transition zones must be justified and reasonable, based on the site selection criteria. Automated traffic technology should not be used in transition zones, when a driver is approaching a higher/lower speed zone and is within sight of a higher/lower posted speed sign, unless there are exigent and well documented safety concerns that would justify its use."

I will be requesting disclosure and evidence on the spot they were printing money versus the intersection 400m behind me, and versus the direction of travel of these accident. I want proof of them meeting the above guidelines verses screwing people in transition zones for money.

#2) met the person still fishing at the spot. Using a hand held, sweeping through branches, high angle of shot, etc. Did my research on errors, obstruction, shooting through glass (my canopy window), angle of target movement, not on mount, etc. Pretty sloppy and careless and more focusing on the great fishing spot. They tagged two while I was talking to them in the one or two minutes I was there.

3) this is a $90 dollar ticket, but it will take me a full day in court to present my evidence, the math, the error factors, question the operator. But I'm going to ask for all tickets in that spot to be thrown out and refunded.

I watch my speed and try to be within reasonable tolerances, but this ticket is just a slimy scummy way for the town to be parasitic and solve their own budget stupidities.

I've said it before and will say it again......as we all learn that speeding costs and we will be caught, that they are preying on errors and transitions not safety we'll learn their tricks and habits and spots and our habits will change to try to be within the tolerances, but what will the system do as the revenues dry up????

The municipalities are now budget dependent on the revenue, the contracting companies are expecting it, the extra peace officer positions are funded within the budget by this revenue, as are the employees operating, collecting, processing this revenue.

It is a drug addiction that eventually will need to manufacturer its supply, by find more and more devious ways to keep the money flowing. It creates a situation where enforcement of the law is nothing more than parasitic necessity by govt.

Iit destroys the trust between citizen and govt. And worse yet our view of the law enforcement system, even their view of the citizen as nothing more than cattle to be milked and eventually bled, to sustain them.

Last edited by BlackHeart; 03-05-2013 at 10:01 PM.
  #184  
Old 03-05-2013, 10:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackHeart View Post
Well I'm going to fight one just received.... Leaving town 62 in a 50 with the front of my truck almost even with the 60 speed sign. Revenue fishing hole.

#1) This is from the province photo enforcement guidelines.....but what do they care about following them when there is money to be made...."The use of automated traffic technology in speed transition zones must be justified and reasonable, based on the site selection criteria. Automated traffic technology should not be used in transition zones, when a driver is approaching a higher/lower speed zone and is within sight of a higher/lower posted speed sign, unless there are exigent and well documented safety concerns that would justify its use."
Seems to me that is one that should be fought. I hope you win.

Ticketing a person where a few feet makes the difference between a speeding ticket and none, is, to my mind, playing dirty.

I've been lucky. I have deserved every one of the few tickets I have received. And I've been given a pass a few times when I deserved a ticket.
  #185  
Old 03-06-2013, 05:24 AM
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You would be just as well to stand at the top of a tall cliff, with the wind in your face, and toss $50.00 bills into the air.

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  #186  
Old 03-06-2013, 07:23 AM
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Originally Posted by deanmc View Post
You would be just as well to stand at the top of a tall cliff, with the wind in your face, and toss $50.00 bills into the air.

It's a dream of mine.

So in your example I'm getting my money right back!!???!!!

Actually.....I lied.....my dream is that I'm tossing weaselly, corrupt and stupid politicians off the cliff with a rope tied to them. Their fall is arrested, and they think that whatever the rope is tied to, has saved them, but sudden it starts slowy dragging their ton of photo radar equipment, which is tied onto the other end, towards the edge.

[Cut final scene as the equipment crashes into their shocked despaired faces, while they scream "Nooooooooooooo" on the rocks below. Big explosion. Ball of fire. Quips:"Now THAT'S a speed trap!" Gets into his supercharged mustang, revs, spins tires, showering dirt over edge on to the crispy remains below. Quips: "Ashes to Adzes, Dust to Dirtbags!"]

How's that for a simile.

Last edited by BlackHeart; 03-06-2013 at 07:45 AM.
  #187  
Old 03-06-2013, 12:10 PM
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Originally Posted by NEWB View Post
Keg,

You have failed to draw the conclusion that this guy has little disregard for hunting laws as indicated in your original post.

All you have done is made allegations that this motorist passed a chip truck in a construction zone which allegedly has no passing signs. You also made the allegation that this motorist was an avid outdoorsman. There are many factors that may have been present that could have given to a “perceived pass”… There was no conclusion drawn that this alleged motorist who allegedly passed a chip truck was violating any hunting laws…. Your post also had nothing to do with photo radar as per the original post…

Yes, there are many signs for constructions zones, however not all construction zones have all the required signage. Many construction zones are well known to have improper signage out… Some info on the passing and no passing signs.. http://www.transportation.alberta.ca..._Pass_Sign.pdf

With all due respect, flag people do not have the authority to enforce the TSA and pull people over for passing in a construction zones. You neither have the apparent, implied, nor expressed authority do so. You do have the authority to stop people or slow people for construction traffic and redirection. That is the limitation of your authority.

I’m not looking to pick a fight, I am just pointing this out incase you do this again and come across someone who is well versed with the TSA, knows their rights and your limitations.
This is kind of what I thought as well.
  #188  
Old 03-06-2013, 02:44 PM
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Originally Posted by NEWB View Post
Keg,

With all due respect, flag people do not have the authority to enforce the TSA and pull people over for passing in a construction zones. You neither have the apparent, implied, nor expressed authority do so. You do have the authority to stop people or slow people for construction traffic and redirection. That is the limitation of your authority.

.
I wonder if all people respect hunting laws like they respect the legislation that governs their authority to pull peolpe over in a construction zone.
  #189  
Old 03-06-2013, 07:25 PM
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Originally Posted by nof60 View Post
I wonder if all people respect hunting laws like they respect the legislation that governs their authority to pull peolpe over in a construction zone.
What authority do they have in construction zones? I understand the need to slow down but what can or can't they do? Can they give you a ticket? Say they call you in its he said she said isn't it. Pretty easy to fight that.
  #190  
Old 03-06-2013, 07:39 PM
Ebrand Ebrand is offline
 
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Default Flag person

Usually present in construction zones to protect workers in the zone. And usually also to ensure traffic flows as best it can. Has complete authority to stop/control/direct traffic.
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  #191  
Old 03-06-2013, 07:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Ebrand View Post
Usually present in construction zones to protect workers in the zone. And usually also to ensure traffic flows as best it can. Has complete authority to stop/control/direct traffic.
I see. The guys standing there with stop signs. Makes sense. Wasn't there a young girl doing that job run over in sask last year?
  #192  
Old 03-06-2013, 08:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Ebrand View Post
Usually present in construction zones to protect workers in the zone. And usually also to ensure traffic flows as best it can. Has complete authority to stop/control/direct traffic.
Actually, a flag person has as much authority to regulate traffic flow in a construction zone as a Police officer does.

We have no more authority to ticket then any other citizen but if it comes down to a flag persons word against a passing motorist, most courts will take the word of the flag person over the motorist every time.

We are trained and certified professionals.

But I know that the issue is not with flag persons. Some are simply POed about my comments regarding ignoring traffic law and the probability that They may also ignore game laws.

You know what? If what I said Ps people off, then I hit the nail on the head didn't I.
  #193  
Old 03-06-2013, 08:25 PM
Ebrand Ebrand is offline
 
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I am happy to write tickets when flag people complain about their directions not being followed. They have complete authority to stop traffic in a construction area or where ever they are suited up and are controlling traffic ( pilot car drivers when the are out of their vehicles controlling traffic related to moving over dimensional loads are flag people as well.

Flag people are also quite good witnesses in court. In my experience their evidence is preferred over the driver.

It only takes a few minutes of your time to obey them.
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  #194  
Old 03-06-2013, 09:32 PM
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Something to think about.

If you don't ignore traffic laws, why would you care what I say about a possible tie between ignoring traffic laws and ignoring hunting laws?

People need to understand that this is a public forum. Some things are better left unsaid.

It has been said, not only is it important that justice be done, but that justice be seen to be done.

Those are wise words, and very applicable to hunting.

For those who don't get it, let me spell it out for you.

Not only is it important for us to be seen to obey all hunting laws, it is important for us to be seen to obey all laws.

What a person does behind the wheel may seem to be unconnected to what they do when hunting, but the public may not make that distinction.


What I'm trying to get across is that many people would probably assume that if you ignore one law you most likely ignore others.

Call it unfair, call it unlikely. But consider this, if I am right then you have made yourself look very guilty in the public's eyes. Never mind what I think.
I'm just one person and I'm sure not going to vote to end hunting.

But the non hunting public may well vote to end it if they think we are a bunch of law breakers.

As hunters, we absolutely have to put our best foot forward if we are to have any hope of a future in hunting.

Let me be absolutely blunt. If you break the law, any law, have enough common sense to not admit it publicly.

You may disagree with me. You may chose to ignore my warning.
In the end, it matters far less to me then it does for you.
I don't have a lot of hunting years left in me.

How about you? Are you willing to gamble your hunting future on me being wrong.

Last edited by KegRiver; 03-06-2013 at 09:39 PM.
  #195  
Old 03-06-2013, 09:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KegRiver View Post
Something to think about.

If you don't ignore traffic laws, why would you care what I say about a possible tie between ignoring traffic laws and ignoring hunting laws?

People need to understand that this is a public forum. Some things are better left unsaid.

It has been said, not only is it important that justice be done, but that justice be seen to be done.

Those are wise words, and very applicable applicable to hunting.

For those who don't get it, let me spell it out for you.

Not only is it important for us to be seen to obey all hunting laws, it is important for us to be seen to obey all laws.

What a person does behind the wheel may seem to be unconnected to what they do when hunting, but the public may not make that distinction.


What I'm trying to get across is that many people would probably assume that if you ignore one law you most likely ignore others.

Call it unfair, call it unlikely. But consider this, if I am right then you have made yourself look very guilty in the public's eyes. Never mind what I think.
I'm just one person and I'm sure not going to vote to end hunting.

But the non hunting public may well vote to end it if they think we are a bunch of law breakers.

As hunters, we absolutely have to put our best foot forward if we are to have any hope of a future in hunting.

Let me be absolutely blunt. If you break the law, any law, have enough common sense to not admit it publicly.

You may disagree with me. You may chose to ignore my warning.
In the end, it matters far less to me then it does for you.
I don't have a lot of hunting years left in me.

How about you? Are you willing to gamble your hunting future on me being wrong.
So a person gives antis ammunition because he speeds? I don't agree. If they were speeding on their way to poach an elk or something I can understand. My hunting future is safe if that's the best they can come up with.
  #196  
Old 03-07-2013, 09:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KegRiver View Post
Something to think about.

If you don't ignore traffic laws, why would you care what I say about a possible tie between ignoring traffic laws and ignoring hunting laws?

People need to understand that this is a public forum. Some things are better left unsaid.

It has been said, not only is it important that justice be done, but that justice be seen to be done.

Those are wise words, and very applicable to hunting.

For those who don't get it, let me spell it out for you.

Not only is it important for us to be seen to obey all hunting laws, it is important for us to be seen to obey all laws.

What a person does behind the wheel may seem to be unconnected to what they do when hunting, but the public may not make that distinction.


What I'm trying to get across is that many people would probably assume that if you ignore one law you most likely ignore others.

Call it unfair, call it unlikely. But consider this, if I am right then you have made yourself look very guilty in the public's eyes. Never mind what I think.
I'm just one person and I'm sure not going to vote to end hunting.

But the non hunting public may well vote to end it if they think we are a bunch of law breakers.

As hunters, we absolutely have to put our best foot forward if we are to have any hope of a future in hunting.

Let me be absolutely blunt. If you break the law, any law, have enough common sense to not admit it publicly.

You may disagree with me. You may chose to ignore my warning.
In the end, it matters far less to me then it does for you.
I don't have a lot of hunting years left in me.

How about you? Are you willing to gamble your hunting future on me being wrong.
Keg,

First of all I don’t hunt. I am fairly certain my “hunting future” is safe. Thank you for sweeping me in to some broad generalizing statement which you can not substantiate. You simply can not draw the conclusion that anyone who disobeys TSA rule automatically breaks hunting rules. That notion is absurd. You have yet to back up what you are claiming.

Second you have made allegations on what you perceived to have witnessed from an alleged avid outdoorsman.

Third, Third party testimony is easy to discredit and rip apart. Sure, LEO’s can act on third party accounts however if the LEO did not witness the event first hand, chances are that the charge sticking are slim to none. “experts” really mean nothing. There have been a few cases before the courts where “experts” have testified. These “experts” have later been found to have a few skeletons and soon discredited. Even the LEO’s are supposed to be “experts” however if you look at the recent conduct by the EPS… here is a link for your review… Lie or commit perjury much?? http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmont...ce-report.html

Fourth, I have been wrongfully charged under the TSA by a few questionable LEO's. Each time I have challenged the tickets and had them successfully withdrawn and discredited the LEO in the process.

Fifth, I have yet to admit or post about any laws broken. Please re read my post and try with a little better reading comprehension.

There is not One person here who has not committed a TSA violation. By your logic and statements everyone on here is a hunter and committing horrendous crimes while hunting.

This thread was originally about photo radar, you derailed it by getting on your soap box. Please confirm your allegations that everyone who commits a TSA violation is a hunter and willfully violates hunting laws. Please back it up with statistical data, irrefutable evidence. If you can not back your allegations up, may I kindly suggest you step down from your soap box and refrain from throwing sand in the sand box.

Last edited by NEWB; 03-07-2013 at 09:47 AM.
  #197  
Old 03-07-2013, 09:36 AM
Big Daddy Badger Big Daddy Badger is offline
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Originally Posted by BlackHeart View Post
Well I'm going to fight one just received.... Leaving town 62 in a 50 with the front of my truck almost even with the 60 speed sign. Revenue fishing hole.

#1) This is from the province photo enforcement guidelines.....but what do they care about following them when there is money to be made...."The use of automated traffic technology in speed transition zones must be justified and reasonable, based on the site selection criteria. Automated traffic technology should not be used in transition zones, when a driver is approaching a higher/lower speed zone and is within sight of a higher/lower posted speed sign, unless there are exigent and well documented safety concerns that would justify its use."

I will be requesting disclosure and evidence on the spot they were printing money versus the intersection 400m behind me, and versus the direction of travel of these accident. I want proof of them meeting the above guidelines verses screwing people in transition zones for money.

#2) met the person still fishing at the spot. Using a hand held, sweeping through branches, high angle of shot, etc. Did my research on errors, obstruction, shooting through glass (my canopy window), angle of target movement, not on mount, etc. Pretty sloppy and careless and more focusing on the great fishing spot. They tagged two while I was talking to them in the one or two minutes I was there.

3) this is a $90 dollar ticket, but it will take me a full day in court to present my evidence, the math, the error factors, question the operator. But I'm going to ask for all tickets in that spot to be thrown out and refunded.

I watch my speed and try to be within reasonable tolerances, but this ticket is just a slimy scummy way for the town to be parasitic and solve their own budget stupidities.

I've said it before and will say it again......as we all learn that speeding costs and we will be caught, that they are preying on errors and transitions not safety we'll learn their tricks and habits and spots and our habits will change to try to be within the tolerances, but what will the system do as the revenues dry up????

The municipalities are now budget dependent on the revenue, the contracting companies are expecting it, the extra peace officer positions are funded within the budget by this revenue, as are the employees operating, collecting, processing this revenue.

It is a drug addiction that eventually will need to manufacturer its supply, by find more and more devious ways to keep the money flowing. It creates a situation where enforcement of the law is nothing more than parasitic necessity by govt.

Iit destroys the trust between citizen and govt. And worse yet our view of the law enforcement system, even their view of the citizen as nothing more than cattle to be milked and eventually bled, to sustain them.
I love that.... when cops basically hide behind the speed sign to nail guys that are just building up speed as they exit a slower area.

You have to wonder if they have ever considered hiding on the other side of that sign to nail guys who are driving too slow as well.

Its just so petty and tight arsed....

Good luck with fighting that one.
  #198  
Old 03-07-2013, 10:32 AM
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Originally Posted by NEWB View Post
Keg,

First of all I don’t hunt. I am fairly certain my “hunting future” is safe. Thank you for sweeping me in to some broad generalizing statement which you can not substantiate. You simply can not draw the conclusion that anyone who disobeys TSA rule automatically breaks hunting rules. That notion is absurd. You have yet to back up what you are claiming.

Second you have made allegations on what you perceived to have witnessed from an alleged avid outdoorsman.

Third, Third party testimony is easy to discredit and rip apart. Sure, LEO’s can act on third party accounts however if the LEO did not witness the event first hand, chances are that the charge sticking are slim to none. “experts” really mean nothing. There have been a few cases before the courts where “experts” have testified. These “experts” have later been found to have a few skeletons and soon discredited. Even the LEO’s are supposed to be “experts” however if you look at the recent conduct by the EPS… here is a link for your review… Lie or commit perjury much?? http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmont...ce-report.html

Fourth, I have been wrongfully charged under the TSA by a few questionable LEO's. Each time I have challenged the tickets and had them successfully withdrawn and discredited the LEO in the process.

Fifth, I have yet to admit or post about any laws broken. Please re read my post and try with a little better reading comprehension.

There is not One person here who has not committed a TSA violation. By your logic and statements everyone on here is a hunter and committing horrendous crimes while hunting.

This thread was originally about photo radar, you derailed it by getting on your soap box. Please confirm your allegations that everyone who commits a TSA violation is a hunter and willfully violates hunting laws. Please back it up with statistical data, irrefutable evidence. If you can not back your allegations up, may I kindly suggest you step down from your soap box and refrain from throwing sand in the sand box.

Really???
I think it is you who needs to re read and work on your comprehension.

I didn't see any irrefutable proof to back up your claims in your rant.
Where's the proof that you beat tickets and the cop got a dressing down?

This isn't rocket science. If you don't want a ticket, then don't speed. If you get a ticket pay it or fight it. It's a great country we live in. If you break traffic laws it isn't much of a stretch to wonder if you break other law you find inconvenient.

With your approach to this subject and personal attack do you really expect to change anyone's mind?
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