RCMP Gun Seizure Meeting With Danielle Smith

[gitrdun]

Originally Posted by brslk

I don't see where anyone has said that every member of the force is a bad apple.

People just want to see those who were in the wrong held accountable.

Pretty simple and I can't see anyone arguing otherwise.

If someone screws up they should be held accountable for that. Same as in any job.

I don't get the problem with that.

Accountability is what all residents of High River whose homes were illegaly breached are asking for, and so am I. Soooo, it's safe to say,, we're on the same page? Only thing is, accountability has to come from the right source..

[gitrdun]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Of course the predecessor was not at the meeting, they couldn't risk him incriminating himself, and possibly his superiors, and other officials as well. The replacement couldn't mess up by divulging information, that he wasn't even aware of.

Well elk, you may on to something. The predessor sported a full head of black hair without a bald spot on his head. Seems odd as most old dogs are put out to pasture with a full head of grey hair and some bald spots. That's how it works in most civilian jobs anyhow. I was told he got moved to Nova Scotia. For sure, there seems to be discrepencies. All's I gotta say now is that if you feel so energetic about this topic is join the NFA and be a voice and do your part to support your ownership rights. The NFA is your voice, get on board or STFU.

[HunterDave]

Speaking of the NFA, where's this video that that got analysed?

"Canada's National Firearms Association has received the results of an expert analysis of the audio portion of video released to the media of the search of house number 619. As a result of the analysis the NFA has learned that the transmission clearly says he's "located all the firearms." This would indicate that police were indeed searching for firearms rather than merely collecting firearms that they found in an incidental search for survivors and pets. It would also indicate that the RCMP knew in advance which homes had firearms by using the firearm licensing system. The NFA will be presenting the content of its analysis at a meeting to be held in High River, Alberta on September 5. The analysis was done by Tiburon Films Inc. and all questions or statement requests about the analysis should go to info@tiburonfilms.ca."

http://nfa.ca/news/video-analysis-re...ouses-firearms

[gitrdun]

By my recollection, the video isn''t publlic yet as it needs further investigation or the lawyers aren't wilìng to release it due to impending evidence. You know that the legal jargon has to be ironed out.

[elkhunter11]

The predessor sported a full head of black hair without a bald spot on his head. Seems odd as most old dogs are put out to pasture with a full head of grey hair and some bald spots. That's how it works in most civilian jobs anyhow. I was told he got moved to Nova Scotia.

Now isn't that convenient that he was moved clear across the country, right after this incident.

[blackpheasant]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Now isn't that convenient that he was moved clear across the country, right after this incident.

Yes sir, thats how they roll now

[calgarychef]

To suggest that the cops that kicked in doors shouldn't be held accountable is pure bunk. They aren't supposed to break the law, they are trained to know what the laws are so they know what they can and can't do. Even under orders they aren't supposed to break laws...yes they are guilty and yes they should be fired. I'd feel bad for them after all they do have families to feed etc. but they broke the law.

[Sundancefisher]

So what actual facts came out of the meeting. I want facts not a bunch of assumptions from bloggers.

Did they use a list from the old registry? Did they just knock down doors and came across guns by chance? Under what direction did they do what they did? So many interesting facts to digest but still no one cares to post facts but rather second hand emotions.

I was the first to post the info on the meeting... why because it is the closest we have to facts.

Is there any fresh articles with details? Anyone notice any minutes posted or video of the meeting?

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by Sneeze

No, I am sure Sundancefisher made the drive to High River to learn first hand about the topic he loves to argue about.

Perhaps he has been humbled and has realized human rights are for everybody - including gun owners.

Ha ha ha. You love to make assumptions and not once grasped my point. I don't believe anything I see on blogs. I need facts. The facts will lead to a better judgement on what transpired. Until the facts come in who is to say.

If the facts point to the RCMP in the wrong... I am not CHANGING my opinion but rather actually finally making an INFORMED opinion. Currently what information was available could be taken in different ways.

I don't jump onto the conpiracy, hysteria band wagon as fast as some. It is not in my nature. I have seen enough circumstances over time in which facts outweighed the guesses.

Still to each their own.

Provide more FACTS on here to back up an arguments. Facts can not be guesses, inferences, assumptions. I still commend those that seek further clarity by demanding more information. That is a good thing.

If there is wrong doing... it should always be addressed and fixed.

Cheers

Sun

[JB_AOL]

Originally Posted by calgarychef

To suggest that the cops that kicked in doors shouldn't be held accountable is pure bunk. They aren't supposed to break the law, they are trained to know what the laws are so they know what they can and can't do. Even under orders they aren't supposed to break laws...yes they are guilty and yes they should be fired. I'd feel bad for them after all they do have families to feed etc. but they broke the law.

YES THEY CAN...

http://www.qp.alberta.ca/documents/Acts/E06P8.pdf

(h) authorize the entry into any building or on any land,
without warrant, by any person in the course of
implementing an emergency plan or program;

You want to go after someone.. Go after the Minister..

“Minister” means the Minister determined under section
16 of the Government Organization Act as the Minister
responsible for this Act;

The exact same thing was done in Slave Lake..

How they located guns? Is the address on your firearms licence correct?

Now I didn't know insurance didn't cover the damage done by RCMP, but since it is a town wide issue, you can garuntee there will be money coming from somewhere to pay for it.

FFS..Would you stay around if there's an angry mob not happy with orders you followed?

[billie]

Still no substantial facts.

[220swifty]

Originally Posted by billie

Still no substantial facts.

Sounds like the first hand accounts you guys were previously screaming for came out. Would you like sworn affidavits to accompany them before you catch on?

[Dick284]

The FACT of the matter is homes were breached using a pizz poor piece of legislation to do so!

The FACT is no one is talking specifics due to legal ramifications.

The other FACT is a lot of people will be ignoring evacuation orders in the future, because of High River.

The issues at hand are;
Who gave the order to secure the firearms!
Who oversees such operations!
Who pays for the bill when this happens!
How or did firearm owners get specifically targeted!

The optics are not good, the RCMP and the Federal Govt have a PR nightmare on their hands with law suites waiting to be filed.

Specifics and your FACTS (Sundancefisher) are a long way from being made public because of the need to deal with a lot of this in the judiciary.

[newguy]

after alot of soul searching i wanted to tell you all a little sory... please, please, no opinions or banter back and forth about my story. it's about a family that, like many others, have been affected my someone's careless disregard for safety and the horrible results that occured.

as a child in NS my family was active in all the outdoor pursuits. we hunted and fished for recreation and also for sustinance. because of this, guns were always available.

looking back now, i know the idea to keep a gun in the house was a viable solution to "dinner running by" or "dinner is eating at the apple tree". at times, we could just shoot a deer in the backyard.

early one july morning, my 7 year old brother and 5 year old sister were playing downstairs while everyone was asleep. being curious, like many children are, he found a shotgun that was not stored properly and in some way starting playing with it.

no matter how it happpened, or for wahatever reason, my sister was on the other end of the shotgun when it accidentally fired. she was killed instantly.

as any compassionate person, you can only imagine the pain that trajedy caused. my brother lived with that until he unfortunately died from an illness 6 years ago. my mother, to this day, still thinks of her daughter and all the times we missed. all the birthdays, happy and sad times. everything. as i type this my guts churn and i shake.

whatever the rcmp did to law abiding citizens was wrong, no debate.

i only ask that when we think of firearm storage, please think of the horrible concequnces that could result from unsafe storage. my story has been repeated too many times in my life by too many other familes.

[fargineyesore]

Originally Posted by gitrdun

Whoa, easy there big fellow. Remember that some of these officers are guys just like you and me. Putting bread on the table, putting kids thru school, making ends meet. Most of them are just regular Joes, like all of us. Only difference is that they put their well being on the line, daily, dealing with scum ready to end there lives at a moment's notice. I simply refuse to paint every member with the same brush. Yes, the force has received a black eye due to recent events. Someone at the top echelon surely needs to have their head chopped off, surely. But not every member of the force is a bad apple.

Not they are not regular joes. Regular joes get charged when they break the law, by these same cops, and you're all for that, but when it's a cop that does it you say they shouldn't be punished. You don't see your double standard?

[Carriertxv]

All TAXPAYERS should be mad as hell as it is the TAXPAYER who will be paying for any retribution that will be payed due to what the RCMP did.

[silverdoctor]

So more of the truth is coming out and some still won't open their eyes.


Love when the RCMP officer says he hopes people will forgive and forget. That's what Canadians tend to do - maybe not forgive but we seem to have a short memory.

[igorot]

Originally Posted by Dick284

The other FACT is a lot of people will be ignoring evacuation orders in the future, because of High River.

I hope it will be only with regards to evacuation not crimes being commited.

The police force is like props on a stage without public trust and support.

[Hagalaz]

Originally Posted by silverdoctor

So more of the truth is coming out and some still won't open their eyes.

And they never will. Certain people (I don't need to name names) will always back whatever the RCMP do, regardless of how or why they do it. The only facts they will ever believe are the ones that support their position. The ones that don't will be marginalized and dismissed.

[pikergolf]

On the spot as angry residents lined up at a single microphone, Shardlow listened and responded, more often than not encouraging them to approach RCMP and file complaints formally.

He said of about 1,900 complaints, roughly 500 had everything in order and have been put forward.

There you go Sun, your complaints.

http://www.sunnewsnetwork.ca/sunnews...06-085315.html

[billie]

Originally Posted by 220swifty

Sounds like the first hand accounts you guys were previously screaming for came out. Would you like sworn affidavits to accompany them before you catch on?

No.
I never had any doubts that there are some answers required. I just refuse to speculate and will reserve judgement until the factual details come out. Most of what I've heard or read is emotional and it is difficult to separate the wheat from the chaff. For example, God forbid a responder made muddy footprints on a carpet, yet on the other hand, juvenile competition in destroying property should be seriously addressed.

I acknowledge that doors were busted. Was that legal based on the "state of emergency" act? How many, 1 or 1900? Don't know.
I acknowledge that guns were collected, seized, confiscated, whatever term you like, but why would they bother, only to just return them? Why didn't they do this elsewhere? Don't know.
I could go on but hopefully you get my point, whether you agree with me or not.
I acknowledge a lot of what has been alledged but until there is some kind of inquery and report, it is all unsubstantiated. That's my position. Everyone can take their own as they please.

This meeting is all well and good (although it appears to have a political hay-day aura to it) but we still are no closer to any answers. Was anything definitive offered or resolved? I will concede that it doesn't look very good.

[pikergolf]

I acknowledge that guns were collected, seized, confiscated, whatever term you like, but why would they bother, only to just return them? Why didn't they do this elsewhere? Don't know.

Because Lethbridge, Calgary and Medicine Hat have their own police forces. They are not the "national" force.

[gitrdun]

Originally Posted by fargineyesore

Not they are not regular joes. Regular joes get charged when they break the law, by these same cops, and you're all for that, but when it's a cop that does it you say they shouldn't be punished. You don't see your double standard?

I didn't say that at all. I'm simply stating that those that were not involved shouldn't be punished for the actions of those that did it.

[Hagalaz]

Originally Posted by billie

I acknowledge that guns were collected, seized, confiscated, whatever term you like, but why would they bother, only to just return them?

Probably just to see if they could do it and get away with it. If they get away with it, its a good bet it will happen again.

[fargineyesore]

Originally Posted by gitrdun

I didn't say that at all. I'm simply stating that those that were not involved shouldn't be punished for the actions of those that did it.

Thanks for the clarification. Those officers that did participate though should be held accountable, REGARDLESS of whether they were ordered to.

[JB_AOL]

Originally Posted by Hagalaz

Probably just to see if they could do it and get away with it. If they get away with it, its a good bet it will happen again.

Yes.. I'm sure that's the exact reason..

you know they did it in Slave lake right?

you know they have every legal right to do it under these circumstance..

[JB_AOL]

Originally Posted by pikergolf

I acknowledge that guns were collected, seized, confiscated, whatever term you like, but why would they bother, only to just return them? Why didn't they do this elsewhere? Don't know.

Because Lethbridge, Calgary and Medicine Hat have their own police forces. They are not the "national" force.

This...

[JB_AOL]

Originally Posted by fargineyesore

Thanks for the clarification. Those officers that did participate though should be held accountable, REGARDLESS of whether they were ordered to.

Why? Would you blatently disregard legal orders from your supervisor?

The only people that should be punished are the ones that were intentionally doing damage (ie. made it into a competition), which I am hearing whisperings..

[Hagalaz]

Originally Posted by JB_AOL

Yes.. I'm sure that's the exact reason..

I'm not sure its the exact reason, but I have my suspicions that it just may be.

[pickrel pat]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

Ha ha ha. You love to make assumptions and not once grasped my point. I don't believe anything I see on blogs. I need facts. The facts will lead to a better judgement on what transpired. Until the facts come in who is to say.

If the facts point to the RCMP in the wrong... I am not CHANGING my opinion but rather actually finally making an INFORMED opinion. Currently what information was available could be taken in different ways.

I don't jump onto the conpiracy, hysteria band wagon as fast as some. It is not in my nature. I have seen enough circumstances over time in which facts outweighed the guesses.

Still to each their own.

Provide more FACTS on here to back up an arguments. Facts can not be guesses, inferences, assumptions. I still commend those that seek further clarity by demanding more information. That is a good thing.

If there is wrong doing... it should always be addressed and fixed.

Cheers

Sun

Is that a fact?