438 sheep

[Mountain Guy]

The cost of the draw has absolutely nothing to do with the effort the hunter puts into it.....get over it.
With the exception of one... the odds dictate that its a once in a lifetime draw. That should be enough incentive to put some effort in.
Have you ever hung a tag on the xmas tree?
By the sounds of it...no.

[AlbertaCutthroat]

Originally Posted by Speckle55

np

also be careful if you harvest a Ram as one of the rams harvested had the horn fall off at the truck and another BC 438 Ram(AGFA yearly winner) had some weeping at the horn base .. Selenium cause a break down of horn material it is thought

Food for Thought

David

So, I asked one of the wildlife biologist out of Hinton about this horn thing. They hadn't heard of it around the mines. If you have this mountain knowledge/ experience from your time in the hills you better call them and share all the details as it sounds like it could be an issue. I have seen a sheep horn fall off due to falling on its head, but that was about 400 km south.

[Whelen1]

Originally Posted by MathewsZ7

Nope but I do know of 3 tags that were Unhunted. 1 left early for family reasons and one tag that's be reportable only hunted out of the window of the truck do to the weather. And 2 more guys are rumor inch to have give up early. So that's 3-4 tags at least that could have at least been utilized by guys wanting to hunt. Many guys do put lots of effort in every year. But some don't and it's been that way every year. If these guys had to put more forth to get the tag they would be more apt to put effort in. But when your only out $3 what's to make guys try when the weather turns crappy and the hunting gets extreme?

And actually there is more than enough rams to go around. You get the right day and there could be a ram for every guy holding a tag that season walk off the mine together. It's not a matter of enough rams it's a matter of guys being sitting there when one of the hundreds of rams walks up off the mine. Maybe it will happen and maybe it won't But if they are sitting at home they won't get one.

Just saying that if draws weren't so cheap to throw away those guys getting them may actually get more tags utalized.

I hope the OP gets a great ram and that all the tag holders actually try and at least hunt the tags!!

There was a bit of a mess the first week but one fella who was guided sat every day and nothing came out. As for week two there was one who left two days in I'm assuming this was the one with family issues. The other two left on day 8 one was on a partner tag with his son who was successful and the other was myself who blew my knee out and couldn't barely walk and was still in rough shape until about a month ago after numerous specialist appointments. But hey all people know and care is that someone left. But I do agree draws should cost a lot more to keep things honest. As for year after year we can not judge why or why not folks are successful with these tags other than be great full when we get our chance. Trust me it kills me every day that I was not as I hunt sheep every year and will continue to do so.

[Speckle55]

SRD Bio you asked ?

Margo and Jeff (SRD Bio Hinton) both know and have taken samples

also I sat in on the Selenium panel

I have personally seen with my boys broken horns on Rams out there

also here is part of a letter I sent to most SRD BIO's and a Mine official

Also i take exception to the fact that in Sept 2006
or around there Gov Fish & Wildlife officals in Hinton had to Move Hor
n ROT BIGHORN SHEEP HORNS FROM THEIR OFFICE because of pressure from ext
ernal sources..whoever did that was very un Professional...

also sent to the Minster at the time Ted Morton 7/3/2008



David

Originally Posted by AlbertaCutthroat

So, I asked one of the wildlife biologist out of Hinton about this horn thing. They hadn't heard of it around the mines. If you have this mountain knowledge/ experience from your time in the hills you better call them and share all the details as it sounds like it could be an issue. I have seen a sheep horn fall off due to falling on its head, but that was about 400 km south.

[AlbertaCutthroat]

Originally Posted by Speckle55

SRD Bio you asked ?

Margo and Jeff (SRD Bio Hinton) both know and have taken samples

also I sat in on the Selenium panel

I have personally seen with my boys broken horns on Rams out there

David

I don't drop names online. This may be a recent thing i guess. The sheep biologist has worked in the area for over 20 years and hadn't heard of it. Horns break due to fighting in all bighorn herds, they get pretty violent fighting over the ladies. If you have talked to the powers at be that's good, i just assumed you noticed out hunting or on different kills you were present for.

To everyone with the draw, be well prepared and good luck! We saw lots of unprepared hunters last fall that had no idea how harsh the conditions can get. Many hunters with no mountain experience have taken good rams during that hunt, its a golden opportunity.

[Speckle55]

Kevin's sheep won Alberta in 2004 at 188 2/8.. base of skull weeping

Srd had about found about 40 horns by then

so its not recent

I live in Hinton also talk to all Hinton Bio's on this



David

Originally Posted by AlbertaCutthroat

I don't drop names online. This may be a recent thing i guess. The sheep biologist has worked in the area for over 20 years and hadn't heard of it. Horns break due to fighting in all bighorn herds, they get pretty violent fighting over the ladies. If you have talked to the powers at be that's good, i just assumed you noticed out hunting or on different kills you were present for.

To everyone with the draw, be well prepared and good luck! We saw lots of unprepared hunters last fall that had no idea how harsh the conditions can get. Many hunters with no mountain experience have taken good rams during that hunt, its a golden opportunity.

[MathewsZ7]

Originally Posted by Mountain Guy

The cost of the draw has absolutely nothing to do with the effort the hunter puts into it.....get over it.
With the exception of one... the odds dictate that its a once in a lifetime draw. That should be enough incentive to put some effort in.
Have you ever hung a tag on the xmas tree?
By the sounds of it...no.

Actually it does. The cost of the draw makes a huge difference!!! If guys have to fork out the full price of the tag at draw time plus increased draw costs it deters bulk draw applications. If it costs $30-$40 to put in for every draw guys will apply for everything they can. They apply for tags they could careless about hunting just due to the fact that it's cheap. Some hunt them and lots don't. But if it the draw and tag purchases where a bit more substantial guys would apply for tags they truly wanted.
And ya guys are going to tell it makes it a rich man sport then. BS!!!! If you can't afford a bit extra in draws you can't afford the costs to go hunt all the tags applied for anyways!!
And it's been proven multiple times that's it's not a once in a life time tag with a few guys holding the tag more than once. Rich Melon holding it three times, a good friend having it twice and a third guy I know of having it twice. So sorry not once in a lifetime.

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by Speckle55

Kevin's sheep won Alberta in 2004 at 188 2/8.. base of skull weeping

Srd had about found about 40 horns by then

so its not recent

I live in Hinton also talk to all Hinton Bio's on this



David

The words "who cares" come quickly to mind.

[MathewsZ7]

Originally Posted by AlbertaCutthroat

I don't drop names online. This may be a recent thing i guess. The sheep biologist has worked in the area for over 20 years and hadn't heard of it. Horns break due to fighting in all bighorn herds, they get pretty violent fighting over the ladies. If you have talked to the powers at be that's good, i just assumed you noticed out hunting or on different kills you were present for.

To everyone with the draw, be well prepared and good luck! We saw lots of unprepared hunters last fall that had no idea how harsh the conditions can get. Many hunters with no mountain experience have taken good rams during that hunt, its a golden opportunity.

Selenium issues have been brought up for years. We presented info on it a few years ago at the wild sheep banquet seminars as well. It's even been brought up here before.
http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showthread.php?t=84070

Any biologist having anything to do with bighorns for any length of time would have herd of and have knowledge of this being an issue.

[Speckle55]

In se Idaho they had 500 domestic sheep die in 4 years at Mines
http://digitalcommons.usu.edu/cgi/vi...%20selenium%22

wonder what the public would say

Mines that have leaching problems years later have issues with SE

numbers of sheep on CRC/Gregg are down

bone yards on site


Food for Thought

David

Originally Posted by chuck

The words "who cares" come quickly to mind.

[Huntergirl708]

Thank you to everyone for the congrats and good luck for getting my sheep this November. There have been a few posts on here about people wasting tags or buying them and never using them. I for one am very excited about this hunt, and just because I am a woman I do not like to be put in that category that I will not work hard and push through to fill my tag. The reason my husband asked those questions is because I didn't have a profile made and wanted to know more about sheep hunting. I asked him to write the post. I have now made my own profile, as suggested by a few people; so now I will ask for info myself. Thank you for all the great info on this thread, and if there is any more that you are willing to share, I am ready to take your advice.

[crownb]

Originally Posted by MathewsZ7

Actually it does. The cost of the draw makes a huge difference!!! If guys have to fork out the full price of the tag at draw time plus increased draw costs it deters bulk draw applications. If it costs $30-$40 to put in for every draw guys will apply for everything they can. They apply for tags they could careless about hunting just due to the fact that it's cheap. Some hunt them and lots don't. But if it the draw and tag purchases where a bit more substantial guys would apply for tags they truly wanted.
And ya guys are going to tell it makes it a rich man sport then. BS!!!! If you can't afford a bit extra in draws you can't afford the costs to go hunt all the tags applied for anyways!!
And it's been proven multiple times that's it's not a once in a life time tag with a few guys holding the tag more than once. Rich Melon holding it three times, a good friend having it twice and a third guy I know of having it twice. So sorry not once in a lifetime.

The draw being more expensive might deter a few from applying, at the end of the day though it is still going to be a coveted tag and it will have a huge number of applicants, sometimes life gets in the way and not just sheep hunts are bailed on but all kinds of hunts are bailed on and even general season tags are left with not even a days worth of hunting. Family, health and work are all huge factors in how you go about your recreational sport, just curious you say rich melon has had the tag three times and he is a so called "professional" how many rams has he killed?
Good luck to the op, you did the easy part already by drawing the tag, your ram awaits you!!

[crownb]

Originally Posted by Huntergirl708

Thank you to everyone for the congrats and good luck for getting my sheep this November. There have been a few posts on here about people wasting tags or buying them and never using them. I for one am very excited about this hunt, and just because I am a woman I do not like to be put in that category that I will not work hard and push through to fill my tag. The reason my husband asked those questions is because I didn't have a profile made and wanted to know more about sheep hunting. I asked him to write the post. I have now made my own profile, as suggested by a few people; so now I will ask for info myself. Thank you for all the great info on this thread, and if there is any more that you are willing to share, I am ready to take your advice.

Super huge congratulations to you, best of luck, show them boys how it's done!!!!!

[MathewsZ7]

Originally Posted by crownb

The draw being more expensive might deter a few from applying, at the end of the day though it is still going to be a coveted tag and it will have a huge number of applicants, sometimes life gets in the way and not just sheep hunts are bailed on but all kinds of hunts are bailed on and even general season tags are left with not even a days worth of hunting. Family, health and work are all huge factors in how you go about your recreational sport, just curious you say rich melon has had the tag three times and he is a so called "professional" how many rams has he killed?
Good luck to the op, you did the easy part already by drawing the tag, your ram awaits you!!

It's for sure a coveted tag!!!!! That's the biggest point. It's no more coveted than a mule deer die by ESRD and many hunters standards! Takes the same effort to get drawn and only costs $20 more. That to me is the biggest joke going!!! It's a tag that guys save lifetimes to hunt, that guys dream of and never get the chance and that far to many Alberta hunters take for granted.

Rich has killed two rams on his late season tags. Would have maybe had 3 but left early last fall for personal reasons.

And the number of applicants doesn't matter. All of Alberta could apply for all I care as long as all that are drawn put as much effort in as possible and at least understand the challenges of the hunt. And yes sometimes the unavoidable comes up and a person can't go but there are tags burned every year with zero try and zero reason for it other that not being dedicated to it!!

[crownb]

Originally Posted by MathewsZ7

It's for sure a coveted tag!!!!! That's the biggest point. It's no more coveted than a mule deer die by ESRD and many hunters standards! Takes the same effort to get drawn and only costs $20 more. That to me is the biggest joke going!!! It's a tag that guys save lifetimes to hunt, that guys dream of and never get the chance and that far to many Alberta hunters take for granted.

Rich has killed two rams on his late season tags. Would have maybe had 3 but left early last fall for personal reasons.

And the number of applicants doesn't matter. All of Alberta could apply for all I care as long as all that are drawn put as much effort in as possible and at least understand the challenges of the hunt. And yes sometimes the unavoidable comes up and a person can't go but there are tags burned every year with zero try and zero reason for it other that not being dedicated to it!!

I agree with everything you say, but it becomes a slippery slope, I think 100 dollars to apply for the draw you would still have the majority applying. If you charge more it then becomes like you eluded to earlier a rich mans game, it's a tough one but at the end of the day you can't make people use their draws, frustrating

[pikeslayer22]

IMHO...the draw should stay the same "but" it should be like it used to be that if you were drawn you had no choice but to pay for the tag...for coveted tags raise the price of the tag substantialy...this way the draw and choice of 999 to build priortiy would still only cost 3 bucks per but people would know if they are succusful its going to cost them 40 for the tag...2 years ago i had the 438 tag for the 1st week and i had the whole place to myself as no one else bothered to show up...

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by chuck

The words "who cares" come quickly to mind.

I care about wildlife and human health concerns due to selenium poisoning associated with coal mining.

Are you just ignorant of the problem or do you just really not care?

-------------


Welcome Huntergirl708. I hope you have a great hunt!

[Mountain Guy]

Originally Posted by MathewsZ7

Actually it does. The cost of the draw makes a huge difference!!! If guys have to fork out the full price of the tag at draw time plus increased draw costs it deters bulk draw applications. If it costs $30-$40 to put in for every draw guys will apply for everything they can. They apply for tags they could careless about hunting just due to the fact that it's cheap. Some hunt them and lots don't. But if it the draw and tag purchases where a bit more substantial guys would apply for tags they truly wanted.
And ya guys are going to tell it makes it a rich man sport then. BS!!!! If you can't afford a bit extra in draws you can't afford the costs to go hunt all the tags applied for anyways!!
And it's been proven multiple times that's it's not a once in a life time tag with a few guys holding the tag more than once. Rich Melon holding it three times, a good friend having it twice and a third guy I know of having it twice. So sorry not once in a lifetime.

The fact that people can be drawn 3 times is far more disappointing than it costing 3 bucks!!

If drawn you should not be allowed to apply again.

[brother1]

Originally Posted by Mountain Guy

The fact that people can be drawn 3 times is far more disappointing than it costing 3 bucks!!

If drawn you should not be allowed to apply again.

x2

[crownb]

Originally Posted by Mountain Guy

The fact that people can be drawn 3 times is far more disappointing than it costing 3 bucks!!

If drawn you should not be allowed to apply again.

X3

[diamonddave]

It took a lot longer than I thought for it to get turned around to this!!

[Mountain Guy]

Originally Posted by MathewsZ7

Actually it does. The cost of the draw makes a huge difference!!! If guys have to fork out the full price of the tag at draw time plus increased draw costs it deters bulk draw applications. If it costs $30-$40 to put in for every draw guys will apply for everything they can. They apply for tags they could careless about hunting just due to the fact that it's cheap. Some hunt them and lots don't. But if it the draw and tag purchases where a bit more substantial guys would apply for tags they truly wanted.
And ya guys are going to tell it makes it a rich man sport then. BS!!!! If you can't afford a bit extra in draws you can't afford the costs to go hunt all the tags applied for anyways!!
And it's been proven multiple times that's it's not a once in a life time tag with a few guys holding the tag more than once. Rich Melon holding it three times, a good friend having it twice and a third guy I know of having it twice. So sorry not once in a lifetime.

15 tags into 3800+ applicants...not sure how long your planning on living but it ain't looking good for me

[MathewsZ7]

Originally Posted by Mountain Guy

15 tags into 3800+ applicants...not sure how long your planning on living but it ain't looking good for me

It's not priority based so you have as good a chance as anyone else. And I'm not holding my breath to get a tag either. I have a couple rams on the wall so it's not a huge deal if I ever get drawn for one or not. Most of the time it's nicer to see others get their first ram. I'd personally rather the minister tag so I could hunt the rut else where.

[MathewsZ7]

Looks like someone watches the posts here.

https://www.facebook.com/permalink.p...41712505889883

[bdub]

Originally Posted by Huntergirl708

Thank you to everyone for the congrats and good luck for getting my sheep this November. There have been a few posts on here about people wasting tags or buying them and never using them. I for one am very excited about this hunt, and just because I am a woman I do not like to be put in that category that I will not work hard and push through to fill my tag. The reason my husband asked those questions is because I didn't have a profile made and wanted to know more about sheep hunting. I asked him to write the post. I have now made my own profile, as suggested by a few people; so now I will ask for info myself. Thank you for all the great info on this thread, and if there is any more that you are willing to share, I am ready to take your advice.

Get a Teck coal mine map and figure out the mine boundary and how to use the UTS system that the map is laid out in It's very simple but different than lat and long. Figure out the five access points through the mine. (I would suggest you do this now, well before your hunt starts.) If you have a bunch of people that can spend the time out there in different spots watching for rams to come off the mine that would be good. You can communicate by cell phone from many areas up high. Bring some warm, warm clothing, good boots and some type of shelter/tarp. During the hunt get up a couple hours before light and hump it up the mountain and wait and watch till dark. There is also parts of 438 not surrounding the mine to consider but your best chance is up against the mine. Good luck.

[bessiedog]

Sad thread.
Girl... Have a great hunt!

Your an albertan, you hunt your opportunity as best u can.

This reminds me of minor hockey..... Some kids can't make the cut. So they should be cut.

I'm a right to play person.
Your hunting opportunity is not my loss. We had a fair chance at it. No whiners please.

That kills the sport.

[deercamp]

not an alberta ram but nice to look at!

[Speckle55]

here is a few found dead from out there

David

[MathewsZ7]

Always cool seeing them pics(been a couple years since I saw that one surface), sad that only F&W get to pic heads in there!

[MountainTi]

Originally Posted by crownb

The draw being more expensive might deter a few from applying, at the end of the day though it is still going to be a coveted tag and it will have a huge number of applicants, sometimes life gets in the way and not just sheep hunts are bailed on but all kinds of hunts are bailed on and even general season tags are left with not even a days worth of hunting. Family, health and work are all huge factors in how you go about your recreational sport, just curious you say rich melon has had the tag three times and he is a so called "professional" how many rams has he killed?
Good luck to the op, you did the easy part already by drawing the tag, your ram awaits you!!

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

I care about wildlife and human health concerns due to selenium poisoning associated with coal mining.
Are you just ignorant of the problem or do you just really not care?

-------------


Welcome Huntergirl708. I hope you have a great hunt!

Can't afford $100 to apply for this coveted tag, definately can't afford to hunt said tag if drawn......Absolutely agree this tag should be more than $3 to apply for, would save Lassie from applying numerous times.

Concerned about Selinium poisoning on the mines? Simple, don't hunt the mines, not too hard to figure out