Debate: abolish 999 to reduce priority point requirements

[farmsniper]

Would this be a resolution to the longer and longer wait times to get drawn for certain species? With more people 999ing and not intending to draw some priority requirements are getting extremely high and soon some may turn into the same scenario the redcap draw has become. I think the 999 system is a good tool to use if you know for personal reasons you can't hunt that season or illness etc. Maybe there should be a cap like 5years and you have to apply for the draw no more 999 ing after that, try that for a couple years and see if it works? What are your thoughts.

[rammer]

I would rather see where you can 999 all you want but each species has a max priority that can be achieved and after that it is basically a lottery each year.

There are several animals that I already know I will need to out live people ahead of me to ever get drawn way down the road...assuming there is still hunting of each of the animals in 30 years

[diamonddave]

Originally Posted by farmsniper

Would this be a resolution to the longer and longer wait times to get drawn for certain species? With more people 999ing and not intending to draw some priority requirements are getting extremely high and soon some may turn into the same scenario the redcap draw has become. I think the 999 system is a good tool to use if you know for personal reasons you can't hunt that season or illness etc. Maybe there should be a cap like 5years and you have to apply for the draw no more 999 ing after that, try that for a couple years and see if it works? What are your thoughts.

999 has nothing to do with the priority points need to draw a tag.

But I can see where if all of the sudden everybody applying for the 410 sheep decided to apply in the same year that would screw up a guy.
But as a general rule my 999'ing my bull elk for the last 13 years has nothing to do with the wait time on pulling a tag in 418.

[walking buffalo]

No. Eliminating 999 will have no effect on priority levels.

[farmsniper]

Originally Posted by diamonddave

999 has nothing to do with the priority points need to draw a tag.

But I can see where if all of the sudden everybody applying for the 410 sheep decided to apply in the same year that would screw up a guy.
But as a general rule my 999'ing my bull elk for the last 13 years has nothing to do with the wait time on pulling a tag in 418.

I understand that, but if a larger amount of people 999 for 10 years and decide to start pulling their draws then what should have taken a p4 or p5 would turn it into a p7 or p8 due to the higher amount of applicants pulling their draws. I think a lottery draw after you have achieved a priority cap should be implimented for the current 438 sheep draw. This would prevent people from winning that tag multiple times and everyone else left in the cold, at least it would be an even playing field.

[tony d]

i THINK YOU WOULD UNDERSTAND THAT IT WOULKD HAVE NO BEARING ON THE OUTCOME OF DRAW WAIT TIMES IF YOU LOOKED AT THE DRAW SUMMARY REPORTS
CHEERS TONY

[diamonddave]

Originally Posted by farmsniper

I understand that, but if a larger amount of people 999 for 10 years and decide to start pulling their draws then what should have taken a p4 or p5 would turn it into a p7 or p8 due to the higher amount of applicants pulling their draws. I think a lottery draw after you have achieved a priority cap should be implimented for the current 438 sheep draw. This would prevent people from winning that tag multiple times and everyone else left in the cold, at least it would be an even playing field.

No because you don't 999 for a specific wmu, just the tag. Not many guys are going to burn a 12-13 priority on a zone that takes a p4 or 5. The 438 (any sheep draw really) is a totally different ball game, so you cant change the entire system for a couple of draws.

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by farmsniper

I understand that, but if a larger amount of people 999 for 10 years and decide to start pulling their draws then what should have taken a p4 or p5 would turn it into a p7 or p8 due to the higher amount of applicants pulling their draws.

I think a lottery draw after you have achieved a priority cap should be implimented for the current 438 sheep draw.

This would prevent people from winning that tag multiple times and everyone else left in the cold, at least it would be an even playing field.

It is a level playing field with the 999 system.

Yes, there are problems with some draws where it is impossible for anyone not in the top group to ever draw the tag. Changes are coming....

[aulrich]

Folks were effectively 999 there draws before they made 999 an option.

All you had to do was enter a draw in a group with someone who does not have the priority to draw. so say a draw is 30% at p4 and 100% at p5 your p4 but don't want to hunt this year. So you enter the draw with your wife who is p0 since the groups priority is set to the lowest member priority, with that you have incremented your priority without risking getting drawn.

I don't like the cap idea any tag that takes 10 years to qualify to enter a lottery for, should just be a lottery.

[ratherbeoutside]

No leave it as is. Despite the fact that some people love complaining about the system, I don't know how this could be done more fairly. Yes it can be a long wait to hunt certain animals im certain areas, but at least you know where you are at. I am sure there would be even more complaining if it turned to a lottery and a first time hunter beat out the guy waiting years for the draw.

If you wanted to change just the '999' system, I would suggest to not allow consecutive 999 draws, so you have to use up your priority within 2 years of being available for that draw

[bullgetter]

There is nothing wrong with the current draw system. The problem is some guy putting in for red cap for the first time this year! Why when you will never get drawn for it? The government just keeps taking people money. Learn about the draw system and put in where you have a chance. For those in the top pool for high priority draws they have being waiting patiently in line for may now have to let a bunch of whiners bud in front of them. Screw that!

[drake]

The problem is quite simply that there are to many people (and growing) applying for a realitivly fixed number of draws.....draw wait time are goin to get a hell of a lot longer until we wind up with a full lottery style format (the only "fair" format). The end is near.

[diamonddave]

Not very often, but this time I agree with Drake. The number's of people hunting and fishing is exploding, there's just too many people and not enough game.

[farmsniper]

Originally Posted by ratherbeoutside

No leave it as is. Despite the fact that some people love complaining about the system, I don't know how this could be done more fairly. Yes it can be a long wait to hunt certain animals im certain areas, but at least you know where you are at. I am sure there would be even more complaining if it turned to a lottery and a first time hunter beat out the guy waiting years for the draw.

If you wanted to change just the '999' system, I would suggest to not allow consecutive 999 draws, so you have to use up your priority within 2 years of being available for that draw

I Agree! And on a side note I'm not complaining about the system, just opening an opinion about the system. I manage my draws very well and am aware of the draw system, it wouldn't hurt me if it stayed as is but with the growing applicants I can see issues drawing tags in the years to come, that's all.

[Sneeze]

The system is only broken for

a) people who do not understand the system
b) people who want to cut ahead in line

Get in line. If a draw takes 50 years, that's how long it takes. If more people took 5 minutes to understand that a certain draw could take 50 years they will apply for other zones or tags.

Just because somebody moved to Alberta 3 years ago and wants to hunt Trophy Pronghorn doesn't mean his needs should be met before the guy who has worked, lived and hunted in Alberta for decades- with a P15, waiting for a quiet fall at work where he can take 2 weeks off.

About the only thing I can suggest to improve the system would be to automatically charge the cost of the tag to the applicants credit card upon successful draw.

[blackpowderrlw]

there are people that do not use a credit card to pay for draws .

[Roughneck Country]

Originally Posted by Sneeze

The system is only broken for

About the only thing I can suggest to improve the system would be to automatically charge the cost of the tag to the applicants credit card upon successful draw.

x2 SK use to do this don't know if they still do or not

999 is a valuable tool to better plan hunts. The reason there is so many 999's is because guys know there is no hope of being drawn as a P1 if it is statistically a P10 that is pulling the tag. I 999 everything I statistically have no chance of drawing. 999 also lets people sit out on years they cant hunt and give the tag opportunity to someone who can go.

my vote 999 needs to stay. I like the idea of automatically charging you for the tag if you draw it. If your card doesnt work you get a week or 2 to pay otherwise your priority goes to zero and your tag is re-drawn by someone else

[Big Thumper]

Even if you eliminate it, people who know what they are doing can '999' by adding a low priority person the the application. We did that for years before the 999 was an option so we could plan our tags.

[Okotokian]

Originally Posted by Sneeze

The system is only broken for

a) people who do not understand the system
b) people who want to cut ahead in line

Get in line. If a draw takes 50 years, that's how long it takes. If more people took 5 minutes to understand that a certain draw could take 50 years they will apply for other zones or tags.

Just because somebody moved to Alberta 3 years ago and wants to hunt Trophy Pronghorn doesn't mean his needs should be met before the guy who has worked, lived and hunted in Alberta for decades- with a P15, waiting for a quiet fall at work where he can take 2 weeks off.

About the only thing I can suggest to improve the system would be to automatically charge the cost of the tag to the applicants credit card upon successful draw.

I'm pretty happy with the current system. I don't quite agree with you when it comes to some of the sheep tags and agree with moving it to a lottery system. You talk about the "new Albertan", but what about the young hunter that was born in this province. Tough to tell him or her that you will NEVER be eligible for certain game in certain areas. When you have a thousands ahead of you in line for the twenty tags released a year.... But having to wait 2 or 3 or 7 or 8 years for something? I'm OK with that. I just drew Turkey after 7 years.

[Gunnar 17]

x2 on what Sneeze said...

[coyotekiller]

Originally Posted by Sneeze

The system is only broken for

a) people who do not understand the system
b) people who want to cut ahead in line

Get in line. If a draw takes 50 years, that's how long it takes. If more people took 5 minutes to understand that a certain draw could take 50 years they will apply for other zones or tags.

Just because somebody moved to Alberta 3 years ago and wants to hunt Trophy Pronghorn doesn't mean his needs should be met before the guy who has worked, lived and hunted in Alberta for decades- with a P15, waiting for a quiet fall at work where he can take 2 weeks off.

About the only thing I can suggest to improve the system would be to automatically charge the cost of the tag to the applicants credit card upon successful draw.

x3

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by diamonddave

Not very often, but this time I agree with Drake. The number's of people hunting and fishing is exploding, there's just too many people and not enough game.

Exploding?


There are fewer general seasons available every year and people nowadays are willing to travel much further to hunt than in the past. This is creating longer draw wait times.

Another issue is the pressure put on wildlife managers to create more "Trophy" areas. This is a HUGE factor in reducing hunting opportunity and creating longer draw wait times.

[diamonddave]

And so is the amount of people applying for the draws.

Its up 16,000 people from 2010 to 2013, that's a lot of new hunters applying for draws that need to be accommodated.

[Tox]

just curious, if one was drawn after putting in for years what difference does it make if he purchased the tag or not?

[diamonddave]

Other than he should have 999'd it so that someone else could have had the opportunity to use the tag, and he could have saved his priority for when he could hunt, nothing.
When they only give out 50 tags it sucks when people put in for the draw, and get it, that have no intention of using it.

[Tox]

In life stuff happens. But after thinking about it, I think it's a good idea. Better not let the anti's know or we'll never get drawn.

[farmsniper]

I just hope the big changes everyone are referring to are not going to be too durastic. In reality with more hunters nature can only supply so many animals for harvest, if it means antelope goes to a p15 and elk 10+ , sheep 20+, so be it. The lottery draw is not the best idea. Leave it how it is or make minor changes that will improve things in the long-run. And not shut things down like the grizzly hunt, to be never opened up again.

[Pathfinder76]

A big part of it is people putting in for draws quite simply because they can and it is cheap to do so. If every golf course in alberta charged $50 for an annual membership I might golf more than once a year and can guarantee courses would have a waiting list for tee times. The fee to apply needs to go up and so do tag prices.

[diamonddave]

Originally Posted by chuck

A big part of it is people putting in for draws quite simply because they can and it is cheap to do so. If every golf course in alberta charged $50 for an annual membership I might golf more than once a year and can guarantee courses would have a waiting list for tee times. The fee to apply needs to go up and so do tag prices.

We have been down this road lots. The ability to apply and purchase tags does not need to be a rich man's venture. If it was actually used to better our wildlife and habitat I wouldn't have as big of an issue with it. When it gets put into the gov't coffers then it is another gov't money grab. No thanks.

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by diamonddave

We have been down this road lots. The ability to apply and purchase tags does not need to be a rich man's venture. If it was actually used to better our wildlife and habitat I wouldn't have as big of an issue with it. When it gets put into the gov't coffers then it is another gov't money grab. No thanks.

Increasing the cost of applications and tags does not make it a rich man's venture. It makes people prioritize or if nothing else think about what they are actually doing.